Canadian Analysis: Permanent Daylight Saving Harms Sleep and Mental Health (sci.news)
- Reference: 0186054110
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/26/10/06/2120211/canadian-analysis-permanent-daylight-saving-harms-sleep-and-mental-health
- Source link: https://www.sci.news/medicine/permanent-daylight-saving-time-15110.html
> "Ending the clock change solves one problem, but it creates another decision: which time should we live on year-round?" said University of British Columbia's Professor Raymond Lam, lead author of the study. "The health evidence points to standard time, largely because morning light matters for our body clocks, sleep, and mood." Professor Lam and colleagues examined the health consequences of the two possible permanent systems rather than the broader question of whether seasonal clock changes should be abolished. They concluded that the accumulated evidence favors permanent standard time, which keeps the clock more closely aligned with human circadian biology.
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> This distinction, according to the team, becomes particularly important during winter. Permanent daylight saving time would push sunrise an hour later. In cities such as Toronto, for example, the latest winter sunrise would occur at 8:51 a.m., compared with 7:51 a.m. under permanent standard time. In Calgary, the corresponding times would be 9:40 a.m. and 8:40 a.m. The extra hour of morning darkness could leave people traveling to work or school before sunrise, while shifting more daylight into the evening. The change could have consequences for sleep, mood, learning and productivity, particularly among people who already have difficulty sleeping or who must follow early schedules. The reason is rooted in the body's internal clock.
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> "Our biological clocks need morning light to stay synchronized with the 24-hour day," said Simon Fraser University's Professor Ralph Mistlberger, co-author of the study. "Permanent daylight saving time moves that light an hour later just when winter mornings are already darkest." The analysis also highlights concerns about seasonal depression. [...] By delaying natural morning light, permanent daylight saving time would act in the opposite direction, potentially weakening an important circadian signal.
[1] https://slashdot.org/~kbahey
[2] https://www.cmaj.ca/content/198/34/E1335
Re:The Ultimate Bike Shed (Score:4, Insightful)
LOL, haven't heard Bike Shed used in a long time. Kudos. My uninformed opinion is we should just stick with standard time because it is the natural rhythm and stop screwing around the with the clocks.
Sure, way up north maybe (Score:2)
Do what you want way up there. The swing between summer and winter amount of sunlight is drastic. However, down here? The change makes it much worse. It takes months just to get back to baseline after the clocks change. I just donâ(TM)t care, either pick one or just move the clocks 30 minutes one last time and keep it there. why has no one thought of this? Did the Canadiens study that? Move the clocks by 30 minutes and keep them there.
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, we tried a diurnal cycle for all of human history and the recent couple hundred years are the aberration. But if you read around, most research says that people back in the day, did not have trouble with sleep. So the informal meta analysis says that we should get up with the sun and not stay up overly-long after it sets(unless you ar rich, then let your servants deal with it and stay up all night doing what you want since you don't have a job anyway, or a commute, or a car. or anywhere in particular t
I agree! (Score:2)
Split the difference and be done with the spring forward & fall back every year
even worse! (Score:3, Funny)
With permanent DST we won't get the stories twice a year.
Re: (Score:2)
With permanent ST we can all watch our beautiful sunsets while we're having lunch....
Re: (Score:2)
You mean like how it is now? Seems to be fine for most people.
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PLUS that would leave more room for additional TIOBE surveys!
Studies show the total opposite (Score:1)
This is just one of many articles discussing the number of deaths caused by the Daylight Saving Time switch. [1]https://www.torklaw.com/intere... [torklaw.com]
[1] https://www.torklaw.com/interest/the-dark-side-of-daylight-saving-time/
Re: (Score:2)
Which is obvious garbage. Small fluctuations are nothing. If you want to talk about stress from bad sleeping times then rotating shift work is the motherload. Those jobs are real killers.
Who cares? (Score:2)
Open your business at 7am or 9am. Close at 7pm or 9pm, again, no one cares. The people who don't matter with jobs that don't depend on sunlight are the ones clammoring for permanent DST. People who's jobs depend on the sunlight won't change their schedules or lives to acommodate permanent DST.
Morning vs Evening (Score:2)
Standard time gives you a greater chance of having daylight in the morning before you have to go to work, but more likely dark when you come home in the evening.
Daylight Saving time gives you a greater chance of having daylight in the evening after you get home from work, but more likely dark when you are heading in to work.
For many people, in the dead of winter it is dark when they go to work, and dark when they come home so it makes no difference. Many others have flexible work schedules and can go in la
Re: (Score:2)
"Standard time gives you a greater chance of having daylight in the morning before you have to go to work,"
Yeah? Whatcha gonna do with it? Mow the lawn? Blow leaves? I'm sure everyone that does that will be really popular with their neighbors. I mean, I have an electric rider mower and it's STILL not silent.
Get home, have dinner, go out and rig the 2 yard lights on tripods, illuminate here, mow, illuminate there, mow, all in the effort to have that time during the weekend that you'd otherwise have to
We already tried this (Score:3)
DST was made permanent in the USA in 1974, and it was so unpopular it got repealed the same year.
It sounds good until you have to live it... there are also morning people among us, and kids trying to walk to school where further darkness presents a safety issue. Not everyone benefits from potential extra sunlight to extend happy hour.
Interestingly few articles speculate on what happens to electronic devices with long-deprecated firmware that will change their clocks anyway. Could be a micro-Y2K, except without all the global budget heaved into remedies.
Re: (Score:2)
This article is advocating Standard Time (eg: EST) be chosen instead of Daylight Time (eg: EDT) that many other articles have pushed for.
I believe that's where it went wrong in 1974 also. They chose permanently forward and hour - Which is kind of stupid if you're going to make it fixed.
Personally, I'm happy with switching twice a year. It's a small adjustment that fits the summer/winter swings of mid latitudes where I live.
Re: (Score:2)
Most hardware that supports DST switching also supports *not* DST switching, because not everywhere does.
Re: (Score:2)
> It sounds good until you have to live it
I *did* live it, and I can't say going to school in the dark bothered me in the least.
But, in any case, I'll be retired soon - so I no longer particularly care which way we go. I think maybe we could even keep doing what we're doing, and I'll bring the popcorn to these ongoing Slashdot discussions.
Depends (Score:2)
> "The health evidence points to standard time, largely because morning light matters for our body clocks, sleep, and mood."
That entirely depends on where you are and when you wake. For many people, being forced to adjust to a time change twice a year can really screw with sleep a lot more. Some people take weeks or longer to adjust.
> ""Our biological clocks need morning light to stay synchronized with the 24-hour day," said Simon Fraser"
And in the winter, where I am, it is still dark in the winter wh
Re: (Score:2)
"Stay on Summer Time permanently" should not even exist as an option. If your town want the clock to be 1 hour faster permanently, you can put your town into an earlier timezone.
Re: (Score:2)
> Which is why the best idea is to allow States (or in this case Provinces) choose what they want to do for themselves
Yeah, that's the weird thing about this whole topic. I don't know how it is in Canada, but - why do US states have what amounts to partial autonomy in this regard? States are allowed to choose between implementing twice-yearly DST switches or sticking with year-round standard time... but they can't choose permanent DST?
If you think that's bad.... (Score:3, Funny)
...just wait until they hear what overtime, shift work and parenting does to sleep & mental health
Re: (Score:2)
> Yeah, I can't believe the level of bellyaching going on over such a small, but very effective, adjustment only twice a year.
Yeah, it's almost as bad as the level of bellyaching from those who insist we just have to do the stupidity.
Re: (Score:2)
wrong
Change business/school/etc. hours (Score:2)
Stop changing the clocks twice per year, but if there are reasons to set opening or closing times earlier or later, I am all for it. Sunlight at whatever-oclock isn't bright enough? Then start school at whatever-thirty or other appropriate time.
The study could have been framed "it would be best to wake up later in the day" rather than "we should make the clocks read different numbers so that waking up at this particular number is better for us".
The problem is not that specific number correspond to particula
Re: (Score:2)
Time zones are needed anyway. There is no one time of day for the whole planet.
Maybe adding more adjustments is order though.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. Base the time zones on GMT and adjust your daily schedule accordingly.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't (Score:2)
[1]https://www.medscape.com/viewa... [medscape.com]
[1] https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/semiannual-time-changes-linked-accidents-heart-attacks-2024a1000jzk
The States should decide (Score:2)
There should be a vote of the citizens of each state to decide what the offset (to UTC) should be, and then change the time to that and leave it there.
Of course that probably wouldn't work for Canada
Permanently shift the time by 30 minutes (Score:2)
That sounds like a good Canadian compromise.
Latitude matters (Score:3)
First: I'm on the side of eliminating DST.
Second: Most discussions seem to ignore latitude. This article sort of touches on it, as Canada is mostly north of the US lower 48. Further south in US the swings in hours of daylight aren't as big as the north. In the north the days are so much longer in the summer, much shorter in the winter. ( a 7.5 hour difference in Seattle vs a 4.5 hr difference in San Diego). While both in the same time zone; the difference in daylight hours is much greater than the current time change.
You know what's the same in both cities? Solar noon. Set the clock to match solar noon, or PDT, and the localities will sort out what works best for them for operating hours, school start times, etc.
And in the WTF dept: Alaska observes DST. Juneau peaks around 18.5 hrs of daylight at the summer solstice. Do they really need more hours of daylight after work? And the days are so short in December, kids would go to school *and* come home in the dark. I guess you could shift the clock a bit so only one is in the dark?
Just use UTC (Score:3)
Then make business and school and sports hours whatever makes sense for the daylight.
Which varies anyway depending on whether you're on the east or west edge of a time zone. And whether you're at low or high latitude.
We might need some sort of portable device everyone could carry to keep track of hours. If only such a thing existed.
So many options... (Score:2)
The time change induces stress and literally kills people. Not changing time might make northerners depressed from lack of morning light...
You know what? We have artificial lighting and spend most of our time indoors anyway. Encourage broad spectrum home and office lighting and use UTC with a fixed local longitudinal adjustment.
Been there, done that. (Score:1)
US did year round DST for a year. It was a disaster. Kids walking into school buildings in the dark.
We would get free reflective dots at McD and other retailers to put on coats, shoes, bookbags.
Re: (Score:3)
> Kids walking into school buildings in the dark.
Instead, we could have kids playing outside after school in the dark. At least when they are walking* to school, I know where they'll be.
*People actually make their kids walk these days? If you don't drive them in the Land Rover, Child Protective Services will be called.
Re: (Score:2)
So, traditional [1]Japanese time. [japanupmagazine.com]
[1] https://japanupmagazine.com/archives/8268
Countries that do not change clocks use ST (Score:3)
Even though some regions or countries stay on a shifted time offset year-round (which might look or feel like being "ahead" like daylight saving time), standard time is legally and geographically considered the baseline time zone for those areas. They simply choose not to participate in the biannual clock adjustments.
Countries & Regions That Do Not Change Clocks
Most of Asia: This includes major industrialized nations like China, India, Japan, and South Korea, as well as most of Southeast and Central Asia.
Most of Africa: Almost the entire African continent stays on a single standard time year-round.
Parts of the Middle East: While countries like Iran and formerly parts of the Levant have experimented with it, places like Turkey and several neighbors maintain fixed times.
Parts of Europe: Iceland, Belarus, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan do not practice seasonal time changes. (The European Union has debated abolishing the practice entirely, but member states still currently shift together).
Much of South and Central America: Countries like Argentina, Brazil (which abandoned nationwide DST a few years ago), and most of their neighbors remain on permanent standard time.
Personal time (Score:3)
I don't think we've adequately explored the possibilities of individual time zones. Each of us carries a pocket computer, which can be tuned to whatever zone we wish to be ours. Shoulder-mounted high intensity LEDs could allow us to establish a personal zone of daylight around us at a time of our own choosing. Biphasic sleep? No problem! And of course VR goggles with a good light seal could ensure personal night as well, with the added bonus of a great view of the Milky Way even in the most light-polluted of cities.
I suppose the goggles would have to be peril-sensitive as well, given possible objections of any nearby luddites to my light cannons at 03:00.
Fine just pick one already (Score:2)
If it's ST then so be it, change the standard workday from 8 to 4 which I know isn't as good of a Dolly Parton song but we'll learn to love it.
Not a favorite for Alberta, did it anyway (Score:2)
Alberta had a referendum on whether citizens wanted permanent DST and the result was, "no." But it was always something that the PC government wanted for some reason so in their wisdom decided to do it anyway. I'm fairly confident that a year from now Albertans will overwhelmingly hate it, just as they did in 1974 when it was last tried in the US. Sunrise at close to 10am isn't going to be loved by most people. While most people hate time changes, they will hate permanent DST in the winter even more. Hope
Summary ... (Score:5, Informative)
The following was in my submission on the firehose, but the editors opted to remove it ...
Some of the key points, from the published article's summary:
Permanent DST preserves later evening light that may facilitate commuting, recreation, social participation, and some economic activity, but it also prolongs darkness on winter mornings, with potential adverse effects on circadian alignment, sleep, mood, education, and productivity.
Permanent ST is more closely aligned with circadian biology, although earlier dusk may limit some evening activities.
Choosing Permanent ST is supported by accumulated evidence related to health and the recommendations of major sleep and chronobiology societies; if Canadian jurisdictions choose to adopt Permanent DST, implementation should include anticipatory mitigation, protection for disproportionately affected groups, and transparent surveillance of population health impacts.
Unfortunately, it seems that politicians and a good chunk of the public prefer Permanent DST.
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
> Permanent ST is more closely aligned with circadian biology, although earlier dusk may limit some evening activities
You know what's aligned even more with circadian biology?
Keep the current system, get up off your ass, and change your clocks twice per year without whinging like a precious snowflake.
That way you you don't have to deal either with the sun beating down on you while you try to sleep at 4am or with your poor children getting run over in the dark on their way to school.
Sure, a couple of codgers might keel over in march, but they were probably gonna die soon anyway. It's much harder to measure the statistics of
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
> I seem to be in a small minority on this issue
Skipping the mod points to specifically agree. The time switch has always been a minor thing to me. It's effectively crossing *one* time zone. In fact the PDT to PST switch coming gives an extra hour. It was never a problem with the kids. The pets required an extra few days to the accustomed feeding schedules.
Also, why is it called "permanent daylight saving (no 's') time"? If we did go the daylight route why not just say California is on Mountain Time, same as Arizona who sticks with standard time. If we d
Re: (Score:2)
Having more "clocks" in our lives be on computers these days than it was ~20 years ago, makes the change more seamless if time is automatically adjusted.
Also less devices like VCRs (a not-a-computer device where having correct time is important) exist in the modern home.
New Zealand DST kicked in a couple of weeks ago and I had forgotten about it and didn't notice the change when I woke up by phone's alarm.
Having said that, homes heavy into the IoT "smart home" stuff could probably have issues due to the ti
What is left to change besides oven and microwave? (Score:1)
> Keep the current system, get up off your ass, and change your clocks twice per year without whinging like a precious snowflake.
What is left to change besides oven and microwave times? Everything else seems to automatically adjust. And if you want that vintage alarm clock, I'd expect the seasonal adjustments are part of that vintage lifestyle.
Then again, my kitchen appliances are kind of old.
Alternatively ... (Score:1)
Go to bed at night, and get up in the morning, at the same 'natural times' every day regardless of what the clock is set to. Move an hour of chores from evenings to mornings if you are awake too early for school or work. DST or not might have to be an issue for school, work, and shopping. It doesn't have to define sleep.