EV Batteries Defy Expectations, Last Hundreds of Thousands of Miles (msn.com)
- Reference: 0184312510
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/07/05/0434229/ev-batteries-defy-expectations-last-hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ev-batteries-are-defying-expectations-after-hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles/ar-AA27dRZl
> After five years on the road, the average EV will still be able to drive up to 95% of its original range, according to Recurrent, a data-science company that provides a battery-monitoring tool for EVs — better than many in the auto industry expected...
>
> Potential new car buyers' fear of having to pay for a battery replacement is the number one reason they choose to steer clear of EVs, according to a 2025 survey from industry research firm AutoPacific. When early EVs hit the market, buyers' concerns were well-founded. Roughly one in 12 EVs built from 2011 to 2016 have had to have battery replacements. But new data shows that more modern EVs are doing better so far. Among EVs built from 2022 on, 0.3% have had battery replacements, according to a 2025 study from Recurrent. As battery technology has advanced, EVs have avoided problems like the ones that plagued the original Nissan Leaf when it hit the market in 2010, for example. Those cars lacked the battery-cooling technology that is in newer EVs, and they made headlines for wearing down quickly. Buyer perception hasn't quite caught up, according to Scott Case, co-founder and chief executive of Recurrent...
>
> The newest battery-powered EVs have lifespans comparable to internal-combustion-engine vehicles, even when driven more miles, according to Viet Nguyen-Tien, a research officer at the London School of Economics who focuses on Evs. Improvements in car batteries' chemical contents, battery-management systems and thermal regulation have been the difference in making batteries last longer and cost less, Nguyen-Tien said. Battery prices have fallen more than 90% since 2010, according to a BloombergNEF report from late last year. Industry analysts say battery-replacement costs are also improving as more EVs are designed for repairability in the long-haul. An out-of-warranty battery replacement can cost anywhere from $5,000 to $16,000, depending on the manufacturer, according to Recurrent. But many EV manufacturers have shifted to allow smaller components of their battery packs to be repaired, which can allow owners to avoid the full costs of a battery replacement, Case said.
>
> EV batteries aren't without their challenges, though. A battery that is frequently fast-charged with high power loses its range, on average, at twice the rate of a battery charged at a lower power, according to telematics company Geotab. Frequently charging a battery to 100%, or letting it rest at 0% for extended periods, can also reduce range long-term. And EVs regularly deliver less range in extreme cold or heat.
The article also includes two new projections on EV adoption:
"The share of new EVs sold is expected to nearly double to 11% of new-car sales in the U.S. by 2030, according to industry consulting firm AlixPartners."
"Globally, EVs already make up 15% of new-car sales and are expected to form nearly a quarter of the global market by 2030, according to AlixPartners."
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ev-batteries-are-defying-expectations-after-hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles/ar-AA27dRZl
It's linear (Score:1)
Unless the company does something really cheesy like overprovision, then run those extra cells first over the warranty period, and only then use the whole pack, the degradation curve of a car battery pack is surprisingly linear. [1]linky [recurrentauto.com]
[2]linky [geotab.com]
[1] https://recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-car-battery-health
[2] https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/
Re: (Score:2)
First link references that photoshoped image of a battery replacement fee of 20k. You can tell it's photoshoped as the text on it is cleaner than the creased and crinkled paper.
Re: (Score:2)
> "First link references that photoshoped image of a battery replacement fee of 20k. You can tell it's photoshoped as the text on it is cleaner than the creased and crinkled paper."
Might be. But it is not far outside the window of actual expense, at least on the high-side. If you have a large battery (like 87kWh), my research shows it can cost $18,000 to replace (parts and labor for a brand new OEM one) in mine. And some manufacturers might be significantly higher... plus I am sure the price is very vo
Re: (Score:2)
Short searching shows that is only true on the extreme high end of the scale. the 70k-100k extreme luxury ev's.
For lower cost ev's it's the same as needing to buy a new transmission for a car. 4k to 10k.
Just lithium ion? (Score:2)
I don't think many newer ev's on the roads use just plain Lithium Ion. What about other chemistry's like lithium ion phosphate etc?
Time to collect these batteries (Score:2)
Study what makes em so good, then "optimize" it so they last as intended and bigger profits can be made.
Defy FUD, Meet Expectations (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know what expectations these are defying unless they're from those created by anti-EV FUD. I thought it was pretty clear that EV batteries usually last longer than the cars themselves. If 250K is exceeding expectations, then the expectations are wrong and haven't been supported by the data for a long time.
Re: (Score:2)
> "I don't know what expectations these are defying unless they're from those created by anti-EV FUD. I thought it was pretty clear that EV batteries usually last longer than the cars themselves."
There are numerous actual/real cases of poor outcomes for some EV use cases (expensive battery replacements in this topic). But they usually involved very frequent DC/fast charging, from low to high charge states, frequent use/deep discharging, and on older tech. Simple changes to charging methods (I listed in
Re: (Score:2)
"Simple changes to charging methods (I listed in another post, below) will counter most of that."
Citation please. Anecdotes of early life failures are not conclusive of problems, there are "numerous actual/real cases" of early life failures of ICE vehicles, too. Furthermore, anecdotes don't support your assumption of cause, and cars should be designed to work properly regardless of use. An owner should be incapable of any "charging method" that causes failure.
"I don't think it is an "anti-EV" conspiracy.
Re: (Score:2)
> An owner should be incapable of any "charging method" that causes failure.
Next: "my EV doesn't allow me the freedom to deep discharge!"
Re: (Score:2)
Correct, my immediate reaction. They absolutely live up to expectations, what they do is make fools out of liars.
trusted (Score:1, Insightful)
And a "... U.K.-based used-car sales company that specializes in Evs," ... can be trusted for reporting reliability of EV batteries ? That's like trusting The Guardian on matters of politics or ecology.
Sample size of 2 (Score:2)
Really have no complaints with battery life so far - knock wood!
2017 Tesla Model S P100D - 9 years on the road, 202155 miles (purchased at 50K miles), range 86% of nominal. 270/315 miles
2015 Tesla Model S 85D - 11 years on the road, 125251 miles (purchased at 16K miles), range 90% of nominal. 244/270 miles
Both vehicles have free Supercharging, and that gets used a fair amount. Both now have home charging, but the 2015 was almost exclusively supercharged for about 3 years.
These battery packs have active co
My experience (Score:2)
This is not a complaint, but I have an 11 year old Leaf and while it reports a 120 km at full charge, it drops to ~80 km by the time you reach the end of the driveway. You don't dare use the heat or AC unless you really need to. Realistically it has about 50-60km of safely usable range.
It's not enough for distance travel because it's possible to find places along the routes I travel where the gaps between L2 chargers are bigger than that, and I'm not stopping for 10 minutes every 50 km when I still have
100% battery is a bad idea in general (Score:2)
I know of no battery chemistry that excels at 100% charge. If I were the battery makers, I would set it up as battery can be charged to 125% with that number being equal to what we call 100% now. The range is already much less important than the lifetime of the battery, especially considering that it takes far longer to get a battery that last 20% than it does to get the first 30%.
My understanding is that the best hybrid vehicles try to keep the battery charged at between 45% to 60%. That has enough power
Re: If this were true... (Score:2)
Leaf were a special case. I think they were air cooled as didn't like fast charging
Re: If this were true... (Score:5, Interesting)
> "Leaf were a special case. I think they were air cooled as didn't like fast charging"
The Leaf has been around a long, long time, so it used the oldest tech. The Ariya, and now the new (2026+) Leaf use a slightly different chemistry (high nickel), coupled with battery cooling (liquid to air AND liquid to active HVAC) and heating (standard). They are going to last a LOT longer (and charge faster).
One strange quirk is that the Ariya had no percent charge limiter, at all. Very annoying. I believe it was a marketing thing, trying to raise confidence that you can charge to 100% every time without worrying about battery wear. The reality is that it might not matter as much as in the past, but it is still a very valid factor. More annoying is they added the charge percent limiter in the new Leaf, but didn't software update the Ariya with that ability (yet, but nobody is holding their breath).
In any case the batteries will wear much less if:
1) Charge is limited to around 70-80% or so, max, when possible/convenient.
2) Charge is not allowed to go very low (like 20% or less).
3) Rapid DC charging is avoided. And if used, charge only to 80%
4) Frequent narrow charging is always better (like 45%-70% or 60%-80%) than less-frequent wider charging (like 30%-80%).
5) Never allow vehicle to sit in hot weather for many days at or near 100% charge (even Nissan does relay this info).
And that holds for all Lithium Ion batteries, in all devices. And most of it also applies to Lithium phosphate as well. Much of the above is not possible (or practical) unless you do at-home charging, which is why that is an important component in EV satisfaction. There is probably no need now to "baby" the batteries. But just some simple guidelines to consider/perform when convenient and when you don't need the range, can probably greatly extended the battery life.
As a side note, people were critical of the Aryia's maximum DC/fast charge amperage (130kW), only to find that the systems are so improved over older vehicles, that the actual charge time ended up being about the same or even faster (in some cases) than older vehicles with much higher maximum amperage.
Re: (Score:2)
Fun when everyone was making content, later became an abandoned wasteland.
Re: (Score:2)
Aside from the early LEAF packs being notoriously bad with degradation - both due to early tech AND bad thermal design - it's also worth noting that the main reasons EV batteries enter the secondary market is because the vehicle they were installed in got totaled.
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
The Leaf had notoriously poor battery management.