Ozempic May Be Reshaping the Brain, Scientists Say (yahoo.com)
- Reference: 0183451586
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/26/05/30/0411212/ozempic-may-be-reshaping-the-brain-scientists-say
- Source link: https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/ozempic-may-be-reshaping-the-brain-scientists-say-155708563.html
> Within only a few months, the brain connections in the salience network, which helps target attention, had multiplied... ["We didn't expect to see this effect, and we really don't know what it means," said an assistant professor assisting the research.] Ozempic and other GLP-1 drugs were initially understood as a metabolism breakthrough: medicines that act like hormones to control hunger, blood sugar and weight. But as researchers probe deeper into how the drugs work, early evidence suggests that GLP-1s may also be reshaping parts of the brain.
>
> Tens of millions of people are now taking the medications worldwide, turning what began as an obesity and diabetes treatment into what could be modern medicine's largest unplanned neuroscience experiments... Long before Oprah Winfrey and social media influencers helped popularize GLP-1 drugs, physician-scientist Lorenzo Leggio was studying them as a possible addiction treatment... Several major studies examining GLP-1 drugs on nicotine dependence, opioid- and cocaine-use disorders, gambling addiction and binge eating are also underway. "It's very exciting times, but we don't fully understand how it works," Leggio said...
>
> As evidence has grown that inflammation, metabolism and mental health may be far more connected than scientists once believed, researchers have become intrigued by patients who say GLP-1 drugs appear to ease anxiety, compulsive thinking and emotional distress. Daniel Drucker, a University of Toronto researcher and GLP-1 drug pioneer who receives funding from several drugmakers, said researchers are investigating the medications across a variety of psychiatric and neurological conditions, though none are approved for them. "We have so many anecdotal reports: They were treated for blood sugar and then they felt much happier. Or they took one dose of the drug and their brain fog cleared," he said.
The article suggests social media complaints "raise deeper questions about what, exactly, these drugs are changing.
"If GLP-1s alter the brain systems involved in reward, craving and motivation, researchers wonder, where is the line between quieting a person's destructive impulses and reshaping personality itself?"
[1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/ozempic-may-be-reshaping-the-brain-scientists-say-155708563.html
Re: (Score:2)
extinct / instinct ... extinct for later.
Re:Maybe the world we made is a bit shit (Score:4, Insightful)
So wait, are you proposing that we should pass laws that make highly-desired food illegal because too much of it is bad for a person?
If that is truly what you mean, then you aren't actually criticizing "Capitalism" so much as "personal freedom."
Why shouldn't people be free to live an unhealthy lifestyle, and accept the consequences?
Re: (Score:1)
> and accept the consequences?
Because the rest of us will be expected to pick up the cost of expensive socialized health care for those consequences.
No socialized health care? Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
Re: (Score:2)
The evolutionary pattern was created because food was unreliable and energy demands were unpredictable - but high, due to the large brain. (Possibly larger than it is today, but there seems to be conflicting data there.)
Now, rationing extreme energy foods is certainly one option, but it's not a particularly satisfactory one as the energy demands vary by profession and by time within a profession. You simply can't predict what people will need and there's no way to standardise this.
There is a second option.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you know, people could pack their own lunches and then they wouldn't have to rely on fast food and shitty cafeteria food. It's really easy to just bring leftovers or make yourself a sandwich, toss in an apple or make a salad.
That people are lazy fucks is on them.
Re: (Score:2)
Lazy, yes. Bright, no. If you can't trust the average person to figure out that bread that's loaded with salt and sugar isn't healthy, then you can't trust the average person to figure out what a healthy balanced meal is.
Weird (Score:3)
> As evidence has grown that inflammation, metabolism and mental health may be far more connected than scientists once believed,
I remember some bloogers talking about how many of our health problems were caused by persistent inflammation years ago. But The Science said they were cranks.
Weird.
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes, the source of inflammation is difficult to identify. An injury that isn't evident, an undiscovered tumor, or even an infected but asymptomatic tooth. But the existence of inflammation is easily evident. By detecting elevations in the bodies defenses in response to it.
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW, if they want to class insecticides as "toxins", I think they're probably right. Also plasticizers. And likely a few other industrial chemicals that aren't properly cleaned up.
Re: (Score:2)
They probably were. Every single thing cranks say isn't necessarily wrong, especially with enough retrospective eye squinting. The very best cranks take a grain of truth, inflate it out of proportion and use it to sell you their expensive vitamin C pills and blueberry powder.
Re: (Score:3)
> I remember some bloogers talking about how many of our health problems were caused by persistent inflammation years ago. But The Science said they were cranks.
The bloggers you remember were claiming causality, where the science only shows correlation.
"...and why it's definitely a good thing!" (Score:2)
Because only positive unintended consequences for drugs are possible!
Ozempic was always behavioral (Score:2)
At a basic level, these are drugs you consume to change your behavior. The fact that that behavior is eating maybe led physicians to see it as a drug with primarily metabolic effects.
It's starting to sound less like the behavioral effects are incidental to the metabolic effects, and more that they are integral to them.
Destructive Impulses? (Score:3, Interesting)
"If GLP-1s alter the brain systems involved in reward, craving and motivation, researchers wonder, where is the line between quieting a person's destructive impulses and reshaping personality itself?"
It is annoying to see this framing. Eating "food" designed by chemical engineers and marketed by PhD psychologists until you are too fat to function is not wholly a "choice." Yes, personal responsibility is involved, but we should also acknowledge that this is in some ways a form of mind hacking on the part of big business. Now we have a new big business selling medications that cancel out the powers of the other big business.
Re: (Score:1)
It's not just that though. The human body is instinctively wired to eat. We've been getting fatter long before chemical engineers started specialising in driving addiction (though this has really accelerated it), and that has largely been made possible by abundance.
Forget the "food" design, focus on the fact that you're within 1 minute of the ability to eat something basically your entire adult life. I'm going to a concert tonight. I'm going to cycle to the station like a healthy person. That cycle ride tak
Re: (Score:2)
If only we had an institution that young people had to attend that could teach them healthy eats habits, to view marketing with skepticism, to understand how credit cards, loans and other money management systems worked. We could call it "School". Crazy idea, but just maybe it could work.
Salience network? (Score:3)
No need for Ozempic, just slam vodka.
"Increased salience network connectivity in college students who engage in binge drinking: A resting state EEG study"
[1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376871626000797
Re: (Score:2)
There was probably a blunt in rotation, too. Don't blame all the mind-expansion on the alcohol.
Correlation/causation (Score:4, Interesting)
It sounds like assumptions are being made about the cause. Gut bacteria have been shown to have a [1]direct influence on mental health. [nih.gov] How do they know this affect isn't something akin to that?
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10384867/
Might it not be... (Score:4, Interesting)
Might it nit be just as simple as people feel much more happy now they actually see some improvement in lessening their size and therefore feeling much more confident and making them less worry about it. Having a different mindset changes everything in your body.
Reavers (Score:1)
Do you want Reavers? Because this is how you get [1]Reavers [wikipedia.org].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly)
Isn't it basically a (neuro) toxin? (Score:2)
IIRC this class of substances is won from venomous animals. If it's a toxin that enhances brain function that would be cool. Perhaps something with the effect of stimulants, but permanently.
However, I'm not taking these new drugs just yet.
I'd rather wait a little longer and see if the Ozempic crowd turns into a bunch of blind Zombies or a bunch of Superhumans.
Then I'll make my call.
"Just eat less, keep input output" know-it-alls (Score:5, Insightful)
To all of those who say "you just need better impulse control", piss off.
I have two friends who have lost 12 kg with Ozempic and 30 kg with Mounjaro, respectively. Both had starting weights over 110 kg. Both had good diets, exercised regularly. Tests showed good endurance and muscle mass.
I'm myself starting Mounjaro next week, starting at 105 kg.
The problem is *not* diet. It's the fucking hunger. If I eat my stomach full of fries and pizza and cheeseburgers - the epitome of "fat" food, then MAYBE I'll be without hunger for...two hours. Then the hunger comes back. I've stayed - note, *stayed* at the current weight by not eating at all until late evening, because then I can get some sleep with the hunger.
Diet doesn't help. Switching to veggies => fine, I'll eat 4 plates of veggies at a meal instead of the burger. Switching to keto diet => no help.
Getting exercise every day - no effect. Improves resiliency. I can easily bike around the city or jog for kilometers without a break. I can lift weights.
The hunger is *pain*.
We give medication for people suffering from chronic migraines.
We give morphine in palliative care to take the pain away.
We give insulin to diabetics.
We give statins to folks with high cholesterol.
Why the fuck shouldn't we medicate constant feeling of HUNGER?
GLP-1 medications do not "cause" weight loss. They remove the pain of overwhelming hunger. The weight loss happens as an effect to that cause.
There are studies that confirm this - if you are eating because of the feeling of hunger - your body signaling that you NEED food- GLP-1 medications help. If you are eating because of "feelings" - classic stereotypical example chomping chocolate ice cream after a bad breakup as "comfort food" and NOT as reaction to hunger, GLP-1 medication does not help. Because you are not eating because of hunger, so there is nothing to take away.
So all you holier-than-thou fucks who keep repeating "just have some self-control" - stick some thorns in your ass and don't take them out or treat the pain, and you are arriving at the same situation as those of us who just feel hungry ALL the fucking time except 15 minutes since previous meal.
Re: (Score:2)
> Why the fuck shouldn't we medicate constant feeling of HUNGER?
In most modern societies medication is usually a last resort. Equating hunger to the pain of a chronic migraine makes it sound like you have a serious mental condition. Hunger isn't painful, sure maybe it may be to some who do have a medical condition, but to be clear 10% of the population doesn't suffer from this. Nearly everyone taking Ozempic is not feeling pain due to skipping a meal. A bit tired maybe, their gut may be making some weird sounds they can laugh about when they happen in a quiet room, but
Re: (Score:2)
Always hungry all the time? Are you absolutely sure you don't have some kind of under-riding issue that's causing this because that doesn't sound normal. Sure, hungry two hours after fast food sounds about right, because that's garbage and it won't keep you full. A salad does the exact same thing. It last about two hours. Makes a great appetizer before dinner and it's much healthier then fast food.
I'm not discounting your pain here. I get hunger pangs as well. Maybe they aren't nearly as bad for me and mayb
Re: (Score:3)
Now, with that said, are you REALLY trying to tell me that nearly half of society is this way? That sounds like an extraordinary claim that will require extraordinary evidence. That's why I wonder if there are not other issues at hand here besides just hunger pains. I know we all tolerate pain differently as well.
This part is completely anecdotal and based only on formed opinion, but I also tried to think back on when the "hungry all the time" started, and my best guess is sometime between 20 and 25. What w
Re: (Score:1)
> To all of those who say "you just need better impulse control", piss off.
As someone on Zepbound currently who has had pretty good results, I'm going to agree and disagree with you.
1) Yes -- 100% with you, they can f all the way off -- In late 2020 I gained about 30 lbs (14kg) out of nowhere in about a month with no significant changes to my diet. My then PCP says something to the effect of how I need to control my diet more. At the same time other things were starting to shout: 'something is wrong here!', my A1c was elevated for the first time ever and mysteriously my lower le
Brain not that easy to affect (Score:2)
For centuries panicky fools have spread alarm about things affecting the mind. Comics, D&D, porn, sugar, etc.
Real effects tend to be strong enough to easily detect within a year. Often immediately or at least within a day. One dose of LSD instantly affects you and some times some of those effects are permanent. Rabies takes no more than a year, usually 3 months or less.
Things that are not detectable in a couple of years tend to have minimum effects and are often reversible. Diabetes for example tak
"Ozempic May Be Reshaping the Brain" (Score:2)
It's making it thinner ?
Re: (Score:2)
Humans are omnivores. We're not designed to live on vegetables.
If eating meat was bad for us, we would have evolved out of it long ago.
Your logic is flawed. (Score:2, Interesting)
"Omnivore" doesn't mean "you MUST eat a little bit of everything." It means "you CAN eat a huge variety of things."
Some meats, like red meat, have been shown to cause colon cancer. We didn't evolve out of that.
Our evolutionary strategy has largely been "eat whatever we can get our hands on, and get as much nutrition out of it as we can." There was never some magical perfect diet that kept us perfectly healthy. There was always just a set of complex needs that our bodies have, and a set of plants/animals
Re: (Score:3)
> It means "you CAN eat a huge variety of things."
Or, you should eat a variety of things, rather. Right?
Re: (Score:1)
Yeah. Eating too little variety risks leaving you without an essential nutrient. But the details matter of course. You can get all the needed nutrients on an all-plant diet so long as you are getting a proper variety of plants, and B12 one way or another.
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe not a vegetarian diet but say like the typical street food in Vietnam. Vegetables, rice, and a bit of protein like shrimp or pork. That and walking your tubby ass around the block would do wonders for people’s health.
Re: (Score:2)
Because a strictly vegetarian diet can lead to deficiencies in minerals, such as iron, and vitamins such as B-12 and D. And it's not as easy to compensate as you may think. For instance, spinach is high in iron but the human body doesn't absorb iron from spinach nearly as well as it absorbs it from meat.
That isn't to say that vegetarianism isn't healthy - it's just that you need to put in a decent amount of extra work to avoid deficiencies and many people either don't realize it or don't follow through
Re:How about (Score:4, Interesting)
I am curious to know how many people are eagerly trying out this new drug, but were too afraid to get covid vaccines.
Re: (Score:2)
If that turns out to be the case, we get to find out something about what reshaping the brain means.
Re: (Score:2)
Apples to Oranges comparison. Vaccines for covid help me build antibodies so that if I happen to catch covid, it helps my body fight it off. Ozempic helps with weight loss and diabetes.
Weight loss is about health but also vanity. Society says thin is better and more attractive. So if I take a weight loss drug, I will therefore be thin and more attractive as a result. The vaccine on the other hand, you can opt not to take it and if you are otherwise healthy, will likely be just fine without it.
Much easier to
Re: (Score:1)
> Weight loss is about health but also vanity.
I feel like society thinks that alive people look better than corpses too, so why not remind the vain to get vaccinated.
Re:How about (Score:4, Funny)
But COVID vaccines are poison. I was told this by someone who just had a botox treatment. No I'm not joking. This is something a real person did, inject a literal neurotoxin protein into their face and then tell me they weren't getting a vaccination because that is poison.
Re: (Score:2)
To be fair, they were poison to some.
The mRNA in COVID-19 vaccines directs cells to produce the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, short live/relatively localized, but due to the systemic biodistribution of lipid nanoparticles, vaccine mRNA and resulting spike protein have been detected in distant tissues, including the heart muscle and arterial walls, in multiple studies. This wider distribution occurred even with proper intramuscular injection, though inadvertent intravenous administration may have increased syste
Re: (Score:3)
GLP-1 is not a new drug. It has been studied for decades. The use for weight loss (and impulse control) is new.
Re: (Score:2)
It is showing that approved drugs can have effects that are unexpected, even after the extensive trial periods. This time, the effects seem to be positive. It could have been worse.
We need a small portion of anti-vaxers. If one day, we all turn into zombies because of some long term effect no one picked up in time, they will continue the species. It probably is a step back in evolution though. ;-)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Not eating garbage and exercising takes effort. This is America and we can’t do that.
Re: (Score:2)
You'd starve: vegetables average around 100 calories a pound.
If you mean veg + tubers and grains, yeah enjoy your starchy diabetes-inducing diet. Oh, beans? Less than 300 calories a pound!
The human digestive tract isn't built for bovine grazing. We evolved with fire and meat as a key part of the fuel that powers these energy-intensive big brains:
[1]https://www.amnh.org/explore/s... [amnh.org]
[1] https://www.amnh.org/explore/science-topics/microbiome-health/fire-cooking-human-evolution
Re: (Score:2)
I hate to tell you this, but tubers, grains, and even beans are ALL vegetables.