Live Nation Execs Brag About 'Robbing' Ticket Buyers In Slack DMs (pitchfork.com)
- Reference: 0180967218
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/26/03/13/0524226/live-nation-execs-brag-about-robbing-ticket-buyers-in-slack-dms
- Source link: https://pitchfork.com/news/live-nation-executives-brag-about-robbing-ticket-buyers-in-slack-dms/
> Earlier this week, the U.S. Department of Justice and Live Nation [1]reached a settlement in the [2]DOJ's antitrust lawsuit against the concert giant. During the trial, which lasted only a week, representatives for Live Nation had moved to exclude a collection of Slack direct messages from 2022 between two of the company's regional directors from the evidence presented to the jury. [3]Bloomberg and a number of other publications have, as of today (March 12), successfully petitioned New York federal judge Arun Subramanian to release the chats.
>
> The conversations are between Ben Baker, now head of ticketing for Venue Nation, and Jeff Weinhold, currently a senior director in the ticketing department. Baker and Weinhold [4]joke about overcharging and price-gouging fans -- "Robbing them blind, baby," Baker brags in one exchange pertaining to a Kid Rock show in Tampa Bay -- as well as being able to raise prices on ancillary services such as parking seemingly at will. "These people are so stupid," Baker writes. "I almost feel bad taking advantage of them BAHAHAHAHAHA."
Live Nation described the messages as "off-the-cuff banter, not policy, decision-making, or facts of consequence." In a statement the company has since added: "The Slack exchange from one junior staffer to a friend absolutely doesn't reflect our values or how we operate."
[1] https://yro.slashdot.org/story/26/03/09/1930204/live-nation-avoids-ticketmaster-breakup-by-open-sourcing-their-ticketing-model
[2] https://news.slashdot.org/story/24/05/23/1446250/us-sues-to-break-up-ticketmaster-owner-live-nation?sdsrc=rel
[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-03-12/live-nation-can-gouge-fans-on-fees-ticketing-executives-boast
[4] https://pitchfork.com/news/live-nation-executives-brag-about-robbing-ticket-buyers-in-slack-dms/
values (Score:2)
money is fine but someone (or someones) should be publicly tortured to death. that might send a message.
Re:values (Score:5, Funny)
> money is fine but someone (or someones) should be publicly tortured to death. that might send a message.
Ya, but guess who'd be selling the tickets to that event - making even more money off poetic justice?
Re: (Score:2)
Turntables
Not shocked at all.. (Score:2)
Between Ticket Master and Live Nation I'm assumption is that I'm getting robbed at every turn.
Re: (Score:2)
Are they not the same company now?
Re: (Score:1)
Good thing this is 100% optional entertainment. You don't "have" to see the show. Life will go on. Otherwise, pay the asking price and enjoy the show. There's no charity here. It's a business and it's there to make money.
Maybe go see some indie acts in dive bars if you don't want to pay top dollar to see top talent. You would be amazed at some of the awesome acts you can see at really small venues and for affordable prices.
Re: (Score:2)
Blame your artist for taking the deal with the devil then. No one forced that act to sign on with the labels and do shows at those venues. Especially in this day and age. Music production has never been more accessible to the would be musicians of the world.
Also, the middle man are why the artist even have a venue to play at. The venue chooses to go with ticketmaster so they don't have to deal with that aspect. Without ticketmaster, we could very well have an app per venue. What a headache that would be. Cl
Re: Not shocked at all.. (Score:2)
I'm torn on this one. First, in general I take your stance on a lot of things regarding price. If it's not essential, and I use a broad brush to define essential, it's business and prices are prices. But, sometimes, there are exceptions and I think Ticketmaster is one of them and this is why. They didn't get here because they innovated or provided unique value they got here because they were playing exclusionary games targeting competitors and buying them out all while building extensive exclusive agreement
Re: (Score:2)
> Also, the middle man are why the artist even have a venue to play at. The venue chooses to go with ticketmaster so they don't have to deal with that aspect. Without ticketmaster, we could very well have an app per venue. What a headache that would be.
BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.
The venues existed LONG before Ticketmaster/LN did, and they did just fine booking acts and selling tickets. And they did it without apps of any kind. Just because you are too lazy to pick up the phone and call the box office to purchase a ticket doesn't mean that everyone else is, too.
But wait, you can't do that anymore because LN, in the same contracts they use now in most cases contractually REQUIRES venues to sell exclusively through LN with their fees even at the box office.
Re: (Score:2)
> It's a business and it's there to make money.
"It's a monopoly and it's there to gouge money from everyone - people simply don't have any choice."
There FTFY.
To be fair... (Score:3)
all Kid Rock concerts are a ripoff and no one should attend them ever. So they aren't wrong about that.
Zuckerberg (Score:3)
Reminds me of that infamous quote from Zuckerberg when Facebook was just getting started. Paraphrased; "I just asked them to give me all their personal information and they did. The suckers."
Similar issue at one of my previous employers (Score:5, Interesting)
Some years back, I was working for a large software company. One of their clients sued them, I don't remember the exact amount but I recall it being at least in the tens of millions. When it finally went to court, the customer's attorney's said that they''d put my company's C-level execs on the stand and have them read their profanity laced emails. Quotes like, "We need to drive f....g stake through [their] heart", etc.My company settled immediately.
A few months later, at an executive off-site, they brought in an attorney that lectured about 100 of us, basically that anything you put in email is subject to discovery. Don't write anything you wouldn't say in fron of your mother, or wouldn't want to see on the front page of the Wall St. Journal.
Re: (Score:2)
Every employee upon hire needs a basic 1/2 to 1 day introduction on legal liabilities and responsibilities in the corporate setting, since the move from the Mad Men era to the digital data dragnet age. Maybe let them test out of it if they've worked at companies before.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. Put it in another video along with the harassment training. It's all good advice to keep your head above water and out of the muck.
Re: (Score:2)
I have serious issues with these retrospective analyses by juries and the press.
undoubtedly they happen, which is why CYA has been a thing for decades, but it also runs counter to a lot of nuance in human culture.
Dak humor is a thing. banter is a thing. pretending that every statement of a literal declaration of fact or intent is... autistic.
Re: (Score:1)
How about instead of hiding their evil thoughts, we expect companies to act like their employees don't have them?
Some people (Score:3)
Some people have no place in civilized society. Yes, making a profit is fine. But it has to be reasonable, and customers have to still get a good price. Clearly, greed has overtaken major parts of US society. See also, for example, medical prices.
Re: (Score:1)
For moral & financial reasons medical price-gouging needs severe gub'mnt action. Granted. Price gouging Kid Rock concert tickets? I view that the same as price-gouging gold-plate dildos. Let fools pay "long-tail" prices! Just make sure government tax-rates on those luxe items are enormous .
Re: (Score:3)
> Price gouging Kid Rock concert tickets? I view that the same as price-gouging gold-plate dildos.
Dildos or tickets it doesn't matter, if such a thing is so controlled that a single entity can gouge the price unilaterally it means the market for those items is busted and therefore intervention is acceptable. It's the capitalist thing to do. Just because its a luxury good doesn't mean that that antitrust does not apply.
Luxury goods are usually hands off because the nature of them means there should be some inherent competition, if that has been deteriorated due to mergers and other factors where a sing
Re: (Score:2)
So where is your provided solution to this "problem"? You didn't provide one.
Entertainment is a luxury. I can't afford to book a ticket for a space flight, so does that mean we should insist they drop the ticket to a "reasonable" price, whatever that is? Absolutely not.
We are not talking about essential, life requiring things here. We're talking about optional entertainment. Not seeing the show won't kill you.
P.s. There are limited number of tickets for any given venue. You either offer tickets at a "reason
Re: (Score:2)
Well I kinda did, I said antitrust but sure I can get specific.
1. Enforce antitrust. TM is a monopoly and the TM/LN merger should have never been approved. Reverse that and split them up.
2. Do a Paramount Decree style law that states ticket brokers and venues cannot be owned by the same entity. Exclusive agreements between those entities should have rules around them to prevent conclusionary behavior. Too many perverse incentives in the current arrangement.
> Entertainment is a luxury. I can't afford to book a ticket for a space flight, so does that mean we should insist they drop the ticket to a "reasonable" price, whatever that is? Absolutely not.
That is dis-analogous to this and I think you kn
Re: (Score:2)
Thank you for your response. I could see those two things being helpful for the situation, especially the conflict of interest of venue owner and ticket producer, with the caveat that your core business is ticket provider. A venue should have the option to sale tickets for it's own venue, especially if that's the only venue under a specific owner/group of owners.
On a side note, isn't it interesting how a handful of reasonable people can come up with some reasonable changes that would benefit society and yet
Re: (Score:2)
There's systemic issues with how our laws and institutions are setup but a big part of that is our fault as well, as in the voters. if every 4 or 8 years we decide to put in the "pro business" party and candidates who put in the "pro business" judiciary we can't be surprised that we get these results. There's a reason Europe has been leading the way in consumer protections for the past decade. Breaking up big companies is entirely capitalist but we've been snookered into thinking it socialist by bad act
Re: (Score:1)
Your point is well-taken, but you are wrong. Almost by definition Luxe-goods do not exist in a capitalist market-place. Such goods exist in a quasi-feudalistic system , were royal-blood ( or its "A-list" modern equivalent ) is required to obtain those special items. Let me repeat the crucial word: FEUDALIST! Your money is no good there ! Luxe-goods examples are trivial to find ... do you think YOU can just buy the painting LOST ON THE GRAND BANKS ? Can you buy an hour Of Dr Penrose t
Re: (Score:2)
In this case "luxury" is being used in the economic sense, not the colloquial, IE, luxury means a "non-essential good".
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The rest of this, sorry to say, is nonsense. Feudalism? We don't need to muddy the waters here, everything happening with Ticketmaster is explainable in modern economics and is easily explained in capitalist terms, hell, it's expected when we let TM and LN merge.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_goods
Re: (Score:2)
That's all well and good, but do tell what is a "reasonable" profit or a "good" price? No one will ever agree on these. The issue here is that these ticket companies largely operate as monopolies in the towns where they do business. The government needs to do more to ensure that a competitive market exists which will naturally ensure that consumers get better prices.
Re: (Score:2)
So you agree that all tickets should be sold via auction, in order to find the true market price? Anything else is just price manipulation.
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree. For me, going to a live show is worth the asking price. The same cannot be said about movie theaters or most restaurants these days. Since all of this is 100% optional entertainment, it means you get to spend your dollars in the way that best benefits you. Don't like the asking price of a show, then don't go!
I mean, what if we just decided whatever your company does is costing us to much and that we should just insist your company drop prices? I'm sure that will have zero affect on the employees
I assmume (Score:2)
the court case also didn't have any evidence that showed mangers actively working to make fair prices either. If they did they should have brought it up. Let's be fair, companies exist to squeeze money out of consumers, if they can they will.
i'd normally be upset (Score:2)
but they're robbing kid rock fans. as you were, gentlemen....
why do i feel like i've heard that before... 1000x (Score:1)
no shit, really?
Just like the bankers, just like the oil execs, just like the Martin Shkrelis of the world? Just openly gloating about stealing?
You remember when that corporatized gangsta rap started coming out in the mid to late 90s and they would openly say they lied in court and killed people and raped and trafficked and all that shit, but hid it with "for entertainment purposes"
how'd that all turn out then, where they at
It's all the same from top to bottom. but it starts at the top
Baker is not wrong. (Score:2)
> "These people are so stupid," Baker writes.
He's not wrong. People should take responsibility for their lazy/stupid choices.
Quit enabling these charlatans. I mean, Kid Rock ... c'mon. Why pay anything for that and especially why pay too much?
Re: (Score:3)
> I mean, Kid Rock ... c'mon. Why pay anything for that and especially why pay too much?
Kid Rock is a douchey person, but some of his music is worth pirating.
Enron, is that you? (Score:2)
All these damn junior staffers and interns can”t keep their fucking mouths shut!
Seeing a live show isn't a right... (Score:2)
All this uproar over ticket prices is amusing. It's a privilege to be able to afford to go see a live act. If you want to see the most popular acts, you are going to pay through the nose. Supply and Demand.
I recommend you sign up to your favorite artists mailing lists and buy your tickets on presale. This works very well for the reggae scene. Going to a two stage, 6 act event in June featuring Slightly Stoopid, Sublime, Pepper and several others. I paid less then $100 per ticket, including "fees". You can b
Keep licking that boot! (Score:2)
No one said that seeing a live show is a right, so your premise is flawed from the start.
And just because it isn't a right, it doesn't mean that people can't be rightfully pissed that LiveNation's monopoly allows them to charge exorbitant ticket prices & fees that results in the arts only be accessible to the wealthy.
So glaze that boot all you want -- it's your right -- but do drop any delusion that this shit shouldn't be reigned in.
Re: (Score:2)
Trying voting with your dollar. If more poeple did it, they would not be profitable. Apparently, these acts are so popular, people will pay the price to see it. The alternative is a lottery system that lets the lucky buy tickets. That just opens the door to scalpers because the real market price was not found.
I would like to go see an NFL game with good seats. Unfortunately, so do 1000s of other people. Since I refuse to pay the asking price, I just watch it on TV. It's literally the same thing.
See, if I tr
Re: (Score:2)
> Trying voting with your dollar. If more poeple did it, they would not be profitable.
I wrote " LiveNation's monopoly allows them to charge exorbitant ticket prices & fees that results in the arts only be accessible to the wealthy. " for a reason.
Every concert venue has a capacity limit, thereby making tickets it a scarce resource. If there's a 1000 seats available, any tickets that aren't bought by someone of average means who is "voting with their wallet", just get purchased by the wealthy
well (Score:2)
> "Robbing them blind, baby," Baker brags in one exchange pertaining to a Kid Rock show in Tampa Bay
being charged more than a dollar to see kid rock is highway robbery
Where's The Lie? (Score:2)
> "These people are so stupid," Baker writes.
So where's the lie? The amount of money being spent to see these "artists" is fucking ridiculous.
U.S. inflation is 200% in the last 40 years. Average concert ticket inflation in the last 40 years is ~500%. That's for average artists.
Popular concerts are a whole other level. People are paying $1,500 to see Taylor Swift? What the Absolute Fuck?
I'm quite happy to say that it's been a decade or two since last I attended a music concert. I've save a fortune and never been disappointed by someone that sounds like
the artists don't see any the fees in the tickets (Score:2)
the artists don't see any the fees in the tickets and may need to pay up if sales are under X amount. Just for the right to play an at live nation venue.
Re: the artists don't see any the fees in the tick (Score:2)
A lot of top tier artists do get a direct cut from the fees and high but not top tier artists often get payouts from the promoters cut of the fees. Artists below that are generally hosed.
No need for a Luigi. (Score:2)
All one would have to do to get the guy torn to molecules is tell a Kid Rock fan the guy stole his meth.
Reflecting values (Score:2)
> The Slack exchange from one junior staffer to a friend absolutely doesn't reflect our values or how we operate.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it does.
Nationalism (Score:2)
Anything that is not an actual country but has "Nation" in its name is sus. It's not a nation, it's a corporation.
"Fox Nation" or "Truck Nutz Nation" etc.
I'm not including "The Nation of.. " type names. I don't want to get assassinated.
Did you expect any less? (Score:2)
I always assume this kind of attitude is the default among executives. The world is always about money. Don't set your hopes up and you won't be disappointed.
Truth. (Score:4, Interesting)
"The Slack exchange from one junior staffer to a friend absolutely doesn't reflect our values or how we operate."
... even if it is true.
Re: (Score:2)
>> The Slack exchange from one junior staffer to a friend absolutely doesn't reflect our values or how we operate.
> ... even if it is true.
He misspelled "does"
Re: Truth. (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh yes it does reflect your values or how you operate, because the talk matched the walk. Not all "values" are set in corporate mission statements, some are just simple common sense and respect. This was an officer of the company, thus he represents the company's values. If not, then his ass would have been fired.
To say otherwise is just boilerplate attempts at PR damage control.
Re: (Score:2)
All junior staffers and rogue engineers should be banned immediately.