Nature Editorial Calls for Rail Renaissance as Networks Mark 200 Years (nature.com)
- Reference: 0179294950
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/09/16/1832209/nature-editorial-calls-for-rail-renaissance-as-networks-mark-200-years
- Source link: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02980-2
The journal called for broader investment criteria beyond narrow profitability metrics and noted only one-third of countries have incorporated transport into their Paris Agreement commitments. Global rail freight fell from 38% to 24% between 1980-2017 while US networks shrank from 400,000 to 200,000 kilometers since 1914. Africa operates 87,000 rail kilometers continent-wide compared to India's 65,000 kilometers in one-tenth the area. Transport emissions must decline 3% yearly to meet net-zero targets.
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02980-2
Train kept a-rollin' / till six PM (Score:2)
"Rail produces one-fifth the emissions of cars per passenger kilometer..."
Sure, for all cars. But how does it compare to just buses?
I think the inefficiency may lie not the mode of transport but in our unwillingness to all pile into the same conveyance.
Re:Train kept a-rollin' / till six PM (Score:4, Insightful)
It’s typically going to be better than buses, due to scale economies and lower rolling resistance. Depends on load factors etc, and EV buses have cut the gap, but steel wheels on rails vs rubber on roads is a big advantage
Re: (Score:2)
Also near-perfect drafting to reduce air resistance.
Re: (Score:3)
> "Rail produces one-fifth the emissions of cars per passenger kilometer..."
> Sure, for all cars. But how does it compare to just buses?
> I think the inefficiency may lie not the mode of transport but in our unwillingness to all pile into the same conveyance.
Full or at typical capacity? Lots of bus routes around here average a low single-digit number of passengers for much of the route. Even single-passenger cars compare favorably to that. Assuming a diesel bus at an average of 3 MPG, you need a minimum of 15 passengers on average to break even with driving single-passenger hybrids. And that's not factoring in how much dirtier a gallon of diesel fuel is compared with a gallon of gasoline.
African rail history (Score:2)
For those with an interest the book, "The Lunatic Express", by Charles Miller tells the saga of the construction of the Mombasa-Nairobi-Lake Victoria railway. If you saw the movie, "The Ghost and the Darkness", that bridge they were building was one small piece of the Mombasa... railway. An interesting book of engineering, rail history, and British imperialism.
If you search for the book don't confuse it with another book of the same title by Carl Hoffman (which is also an excellent book, btw).
Re:"Lefist Rag Calls for More Trains" News at 11 (Score:4, Informative)
It's been five years and all the evidence has been pointing away from WIV and towards zoonotic. At the very least in 5 years you are no closer to disproving zoonotic.
If you think you got more information there's $100,000 up for grabs. Once guy already won it by really just slapping down lab-leak for like 12 hours.
[1]My Friend Won the US$100,000 Debate on the Origin of COVID-19 [medium.com]
So maybe Nature keeps it's good reputation and you can stick with RFK Jr as your strongest advocate. Good luck with the monster man.
[1] https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/my-friend-won-the-us-100-000-debate-on-the-origin-of-covid-19-8a9d3f719ce9
Re: (Score:1)
"It's been five years and all the evidence has been pointing away from WIV and towards zoonotic."
You do your argument no favors with outright lies.
Re:"Lefist Rag Calls for More Trains" News at 11 (Score:4, Informative)
Do you hear that? The sound of no real evidence and just empty accusations?
I can freely admit we will never have 100% confirmation either way, only probabilities but we have everything we need to explain zoonotic origin and we have to take in a bunch of wild assumptions to make lab leak work. We dont even have any outside the market clusters.
If you want to believe lab leak go right ahead but you cannot sit here and act like your evidence is strong and certainly not stronger than zoonotic, thats a lie. The OP certainly can't claim Nature did some wrong by going where the evidence goes.
Re:"Lefist Rag Calls for More Trains" News at 11 (Score:4, Insightful)
You’re completely bonkers, you are. A drivelling loon. It would never do to take you seriously and reply to your ramblings substantively. That would dignify them more than is reasonable. But it’s fun to laugh at you, so thanks for that!
Re: (Score:3)
He was politically unaffiliated:
[1]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/n... [pbs.org]
State records show Robinson is registered to vote but is not affiliated with a political party and is listed as inactive, meaning he did not vote in the two most recent general elections.
[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/what-to-know-about-the-aftermath-of-charlie-kirks-assassination
Re: (Score:3)
> State records show Robinson is registered to vote but is not affiliated with a political party and is listed as inactive, meaning he did not vote in the two most recent general elections.
Odd how someone can be "radicalized" enough to shoot someone, but participating in democracy the proper way is still too much of a hassle. Almost like something else was just wrong in his head. Also being exposed to, like Neo said, guns, lots of guns , ever since he was a kid. Don't tell the peanut gallery on X that though, they'll get you fired for anything that even remotely challenges the narrative that a crazed leftist took out their Christian nationalist golden boy.
Re: (Score:2)
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
Re: (Score:1)
Thank goodness cars are not associated with any crimes, eh? You’ll struggle to find any stories of car jackings or road rage. There’s never been a video game named after a famous type of car crime, has there?
Fucking imbecile
It isn't that simple (Score:2)
"Just invest in rail."
No, it's not that easy. Trains are slow to get started, they need a significant amount of time to stop. Most trains weigh way more than a truck with full load. But trains need to be managed carefully. Enough distance between the trains, a quality management system for switches and signals, good trains, good personnel.
Before that, you need to design your network such that it's attractive enough for people to use it. With public transit this generally means: put stations at places where
Re: (Score:2)
> "Just invest in rail."
> No, it's not that easy. Trains are slow to get started, they need a significant amount of time to stop. Most trains weigh way more than a truck with full load. But trains need to be managed carefully. Enough distance between the trains, a quality management system for switches and signals, good trains, good personnel.
> Before that, you need to design your network such that it's attractive enough for people to use it. With public transit this generally means: put stations at places where people want to get on or get off or want to transfer to other modes of public transport (such as buses, subways, trams) which can bring people closer to their final destination.
And note that this will change over time, but your rails can't change over time. This is the peril of rail for intracity transit.
Rails make a lot of sense in ultra-dense areas (think Manhattan, *maybe* downtown SF, but not any of the rest of the Bay Area, etc.), because the roads can't handle even a fraction of the passenger volume.
Rails also make sense for long-distance travel. If you're traveling for several hours, you probably don't want to drive that, so it is worth the inconvenience of not having a c
This is the problem... (Score:2)
And the problem as I see it is, the ridiculous price of a rail ticket and the sheer inconvenience of rail travel. I can put petrol in my 35 years old Civic and drive to wherever I want to, possibly with a passenger, at a fraction of the price of a rail ticket. Then, instead of being dropped in the middle of some city and having to get a cab or bus or hire car to complete the journey I can just continue in my car. If I need them my car can easily carry along for me a tent, sleeping bag, stove, cooking fuel,
Need to wait (Score:2)
....until the other Koch brother (Charles is dead too)
They were the main duo behind Koch Industries and its vast political influence through funding of libertarian and right-wing causes, including heavy opposition to public transit and urban rail projects across the US.
David Koch is dead (2019), but Charles Koch is still alive.
Their network, especially through Americans for Prosperity, spent millions lobbying against:
Local ballot measures for public transit (e.g. Nashville, Phoenix, Milwaukee)
Light rail and
20% as much CO2 (Score:2)
80% less than cars is a lot less, but I'm kind of surprised it's that much. It actually makes me wonder how a Prius would fare compared to a klunky old half-full (per load factor statistics) Amtrak train.
Re:20% as much CO2 (Score:4, Insightful)
That’s a direct result of the discouragement of investment in trains in the US. Elsewhere in the world, a train is a comfortable and safe experience.
Re: (Score:1)
> That’s a direct result of the discouragement of investment in trains in the US. Elsewhere in the world, a train is a comfortable and safe experience.
I wouldn't want to be stuck in a train with the people that shop at my local Walmart, and they all have cars. I think it's just a cultural difference here in the US, where we'd be at each other's throats if not kept separated in our own little metal boxes with wheels.
And since I think I need to clarify before someone pulls the "racist" card or whatever slight they're imagining, I was specifically thinking of two things:
Ever since Florida legalized medicinal marijuana, some people absolutely reek of it. To
Re: (Score:2)
> I wouldn't want to be stuck in a train with the people that shop at my local Walmart, and they all have cars. I think it's just a cultural difference here in the US, where we'd be at each other's throats if not kept separated in our own little metal boxes with wheels.
In New York massive numbers of people take the commuter lines into the city every day and New Yorkers are known for being some of the most intense Americans. Then there's the subways moving even more people. New York also has legal pot as well. With the right infrastructure this type of thing works fine in the US.
The homophobia thing I get though. I'm sorry that's bullshit you have to worry about.
Re: (Score:2)
> In New York massive numbers of people take the commuter lines into the city every day and New Yorkers are known for being some of the most intense Americans.
I have no first-hand experience with NYC's subway. Never been there. Only public transportation I regularly use is the monorail at Disney, and it's cramped and people tend to be rude at the end of the day because they're tired from walking around the theme park for hours in the blazing hot sun.
> New York also has legal pot as well.
Which basically means having to tolerate the stench that lingers on people's clothes. Though, at least from what I've heard, NYC's subways are such a cocktail of unpleasant odors already, so people just have to deal
Re: (Score:2)
It has nothing to do with investment in trains or not but a tolerance for allowing people who cause trouble to use them. There are countries with far older rail infrastructure that I would use over American public transit. Those countries won't put up with some crackhead or meth addict terrorizing other patrons. The U.S. doesn't want to incarcerate these people or believes doing so is either cruel or unjust and dumps them right back out into society.
There's no point in investing anything in public transp
Re: (Score:2)
This is just a trope you guys tell yourselves. There’s no evidence basis for it. Where you have public transit, it’s heavily used, even if you won’t do it. You sound like Thatcher about people taking buses (it’s a notorious quote, look it up)