Calling Boss a Dickhead Was Not a Sackable Offense, Tribunal Rules (theguardian.com)
- Reference: 0179010060
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/25/09/04/2131246/calling-boss-a-dickhead-was-not-a-sackable-offense-tribunal-rules
- Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/sep/04/calling-your-boss-a-dickhead-is-not-a-sackable-offence-tribunal-rules
> Managers and supervisors brace yourselves: calling the boss a dickhead is [1]not necessarily a sackable offense , a tribunal has ruled. The ruling came in the case of an office manager who was sacked on the spot when -- during a row -- she called her manager and another director dickheads. Kerrie Herbert has been awarded almost 30,000 pounds in compensation and legal costs after an employment tribunal found she had been unfairly dismissed.
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> The employment judge Sonia Boyes ruled that the scaffolding and brickwork company she worked for had not "acted reasonably in all the circumstances in treating [her] conduct as a sufficient reason to dismiss her." "She made a one-off comment to her line manager about him and a director of the business," Boyes said. "The comment was made during a heated meeting. "Whilst her comment was not acceptable, there is no suggestion that she had made such comments previously. Further ... this one-off comment did not amount to gross misconduct or misconduct so serious to justify summary dismissal." [...]
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> Boyes found that Herbert was summarily fired because of her use of the word "dickheads" and ruled that the company had failed to follow proper disciplinary procedures. She concluded that calling her bosses dickheads was not sufficient to fire Herbert and ordered the firm to pay 15,042.81 pounds in compensation. In her latest judgment she also ruled it had to pay 14,087 pounds towards her legal fees.
"If it was anyone else in this position they would have walked years ago due to the goings-on in the office, but it is only because of you two dickheads that I stayed," said Herbert.
Swannell retorted: "Don't call me a fucking dickhead or my wife. That's it, you're sacked. Pack your kit and fuck off."
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/sep/04/calling-your-boss-a-dickhead-is-not-a-sackable-offence-tribunal-rules
Important bit seems to be missing. (Score:2)
> "If it was anyone else in this position they would have walked years ago due to the goings-on in the office, but it is only because of you two dickheads that I stayed," said Herbert.
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> Swannell retorted: "Don't call me a fucking dickhead or my wife. That's it, you're sacked. Pack your kit and fuck off."
Wife?
At any rate, somebody's an oversensitive ninny if being called a dickhead, or even having their wife / director (insert joke here) called a dickhead, seems worthy of that retort. Hells, we call each other that on the job all the time and we aren't even in a construction oriented company. What I remember working construction jobs with gramps, dickhead would have been seen as an upgrade over what most of the management got called to their faces by the crews.
At worst, that's a trip to HR and a slap on the
Re: (Score:2)
Many years ago when I owned my own company, a sales person told the sales director to fuck off. The sales director asked me to fire the sales person and I refused. The sales director ended up parting a few months later and the sales person stayed on as a great employee for many years.
But I did tell the sales person not to use that sort of language in a professional setting again.
Re:Important bit seems to be missing. (Score:4)
> Wife?
Sounds like a smallish firm or a sole trader who employs his wife for... reasons.
> At any rate, somebody's an oversensitive ninny if being called a dickhead, or even having their wife / director (insert joke here) called a dickhead, seems worthy of that retort. Hells, we call each other that on the job all the time and we aren't even in a construction oriented company. What I remember working construction jobs with gramps, dickhead would have been seen as an upgrade over what most of the management got called to their faces by the crews.
I'm not so sure myself. If I called the owner of my workplace a dickhead I wouldn't really expect to keep my job. This lady seems to be lucky that it was done in the heat of the moment. I guarantee she'll end up getting a different job though; no-one wants to work in that sort of environment and she's just won a nice settlement to tide her over until she finds new employment.
> At worst, that's a trip to HR and a slap on the wrist. Or just respond with a name yourself and move on with your day. No need to get all wound up over it.
These sorts of firms don't usually have HR, certainly not done in-house. It's possible they even contract out for their payroll. She really is lucky that the owner tried to sack her after only one incident; if he'd waited until there was a pattern of bad behaviour from the claimant she'd have been out on her arse with no legal recourse. I checked the company's most recent (2022) filing with [1]Companies House [service.gov.uk] and they reported net assets of around £90k. This is not a small loss for them.
[1] https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09930652/filing-history
Context matters (Score:2)
I currently work for a large public company. I would absolutely expect to be fired if I called someone a dickhead. (Above or below me, we don't tolerate abusive managers, at least in this corner of the firm.)
In the past I've worked for small companies where this sort of thing would be entirely normal. I ran one with two partners, we had some vivid arguments at various times.
Hell, a really long time ago I worked in a place where fist fights were relatively normal, if they didn't go "too far". (One summer
Re: (Score:2)
> I would absolutely expect to be fired if I called someone a dickhead.
Sounds like you live in an at-will employment state without any rights of your own. I expect 100% to get a formal written warning - something that would be required in most of the western world before firing someone for calling you names.
Re: (Score:2)
> who employs his wife for... reasons
Actually it sounds very much like any small family operated business where the spouses seem to be co-directors.
> If I called the owner of my workplace a dickhead I wouldn't really expect to keep my job.
Context matters, as does past behaviours, as do disciplinary procedures. This didn't happen in the United States of Freedom to Fuck Employees In At Will States. In most of the world you would be required to issue a written warning for a first offence before firing someone. And even then if it is proven that it happened in the midst of a heated debate that the employing party contributed to escalati
Fuck the tribunal. Full speed ahead (Score:2)
Roughly 30,000 pounds? Totally worth it to get rid of her permanently.
Re: (Score:2)
> Roughly 30,000 pounds? Totally worth it to get rid of her permanently.
Their other employees would probably be quite happy if they make it like a regular thing. I expect they will be called dickheads quite regularly now.
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, its the USA which is the jerk when it comes to employment law. I'll take the "Just Cause" employment standard over "Employment At Will" anyday.
Only the C-level folks, residents of Montana, and union employees get Just Cause in the united states. The rest of us are stuck with Employment At will.
Re: (Score:2)
> Roughly 30,000 pounds? Totally worth it to get rid of her permanently.
Did they get rid of her permanently though, or do they now have to keep her on the payroll until she does something actionable?
Because now any attempt to dismiss her will result in further investigation, this time for retaliation. If they fire her and she can document that her transgressions were no worse than anyone else's, they'll just end up in front of this regulatory body again, and probably end up owing her more money, again.
Re: (Score:1)
Doubly so when you consider she also insulted husband and wife.
Can you imagine being a husband who does not step in to protect his wife from this sort of face to face abuse while you're present? Can you imagine family life in the wake of not doing that?
This is divorce territory as wife's subconscious will inherently correctly conclude "he can't protect me even against some dumb cunt at work who's his subordinate. He can't even protect himself from that subordinate. He's utterly weak and pathetic, intolerabl
Unintended consequences (Score:1)
So if some underling calls Trump a dickhead, he can't fire them... otherwise the dreaded UK will have more freedom of expression than the USA. And that cannot be allowed.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
There's no freedom of expression on the UK.
They imprison people by hundreds for factually correct statements on social media and elsewhere..
But they do have freedom to remain employed where they are not wanted. Awesome! /s
Re: Unintended consequences (Score:1)
They have a king and they put his face on their money. What do you expect from medievalists?
Re: (Score:2)
> There's no freedom of expression on the UK.
There is now - just start all your posts with "Dear Boss, I'd just like to say...."
Re: (Score:2)
There's no protection from this in the United States due to employment-at-will.
Re: (Score:2)
Isn't that a state-level decision?
Boss take (Score:1, Informative)
I don't care what you call me as long as you justify the ROI.
Is a dickhead worse than a cunt? (Score:5, Funny)
I would have no idea what to be offended by if I were British.
Re: (Score:2)
The answer to your question is no, definitely not.
I'm more surprised... (Score:3)
... by the fact that these British folks were using what I thought were Americanisms.
Regardless, there seemed to be plenty of unprofessionalism to go around in that meeting.
Re: (Score:2)
Not me, personally...
What's the tech angle here (Score:2)
For this disgruntled brick worker?
Not a pejorative (Score:3)
Calling someone a "dickhead" is merely pointing out that you find someone's behaviour disagreeable.
Is it bad language? Sure, but that is acceptable in some environments more than others.
Re: (Score:3)
> Calling someone a "dickhead" is merely pointing out that you find someone's behaviour disagreeable.
> Is it bad language? Sure, but that is acceptable in some environments more than others.
Back when I did contract work, I did a stint with the NYPD. Compared to what everyone there usually called each other, "dickhead" would be some kind of term of endearment. Or maybe it'd be taken ironically and be considered really offensive.
Good, but... (Score:1)
... unfortunately, calling a person with a penis and a beard "a man" is still a sackable offence, because the world has gone mad and facts don't matter any more.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you mean, " [1]Morans [cubsinsider.com]."
[1] https://assets.cubsinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/09145333/morans1-e1435205247281.jpg
But putting your head near my dick... (Score:1)
And licking my sack... That's not not offensive, it's just sackable.
why is this on slashdot? (Score:1)
someone in europe (i guess - by the use of the word "tribunal" -- we don't have such things in the US) called their boss a dickhead. is there any relationship to tech, at all, in this story? please inform if you can think of something i havent
Britain (Score:3)
> "Managers and supervisors brace yourselves: calling the boss a dickhead is not necessarily a sackable offense, a tribunal has ruled."
Well, that might be the case in Britain, but is not the case in most places in the USA, thankfully. Employment is a voluntary arrangement and if I had an employee saying that to one of my managers or me, it would very likely lead to some type of disciplinary action. Not saying the person would be fired, it depends on employment record, context and such.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah we don't use the USA at-will employment which creates huge power disparities any kind of meaningful standard on which to model employment contracts in the west. This isn't a Britain thing. It's a common sense case which would apply to the employment structure in most of the western world.
Swearing at a construction company? (Score:2)
I'm sure that was a milder choice of words than is usually spoken at that company
I had a UK manager explain that when he had bad news for his boss, he had to carry a plastic model of the poo emojii when he delivered it. Childish and boorish. Him for talking about it, worse for his boss(s).
We are led by donkeys.
Of course, none of this applies in the USA (Score:2)
Due to the doctrine of employment at will, You can be fired for any reason, just as long as it isn't an illegal reason.
It is set up so managers have pretty much unfettered firing power. The reason by this is often stated that "Managers should be able to pick and choose who is on their team"
There are no Employment Tribunals in the USA. There's only the court system. The courts are rarely used by someone who is fired and wants to fight it. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1) It is very hard to prove wr
Meanwhile, in the US... (Score:2)
You can get sacked for calling your boss by the wrong pronouns, or saying something that makes them "uncomfortable."
Just A Hunch (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest her statement was fair and accurate.
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest her statement was fair and accurate.
I think she actually proved it to be fair and accurate.
Re: (Score:3)
A lot of managers might not even know they are dickheads unless people point it out. They should be happy to know rather than going through life unaware.
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest her statement was fair and accurate.
Irrelevant. I call my manager a cunt to his face at least once every in every 10 minutes of interaction I have with him. If I didn't, he'd probably get worried something was wrong. Whether or not this woman is telling the truth about her working conditions, any boss who fires someone for something as trivial as telling them they are a dickhead deserves a quick sharp boot in the hole.
Re: (Score:2)
I remember once, long ago, a self-important, arrogant supervisor pushed me a little too hard and I called him an SOB. We were called into his boss's office and given the choice between apologizing and getting fired. After a moment's thought, I decided that I had nothing to lose and told him, "I'm sorry I told you you're an SOB." After a long moment's thought, he accepted it, never realizing that I hadn't actually apologized at all, but repeated the insult. Needles to say, I started looking for a new job