Majority in UK Now 'Self-Identify' as Neurodivergent (thetimes.com)
- Reference: 0177323097
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/25/05/05/0649225/majority-in-uk-now-self-identify-as-neurodivergent
- Source link: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/science/article/self-diagnose-neurodivergent-99l9kl8v5
"Once you take autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and all the other ways that you can developmentally be different from the typical, you actually don't get many typical people left," Happe told BBC Radio 4.
Autism diagnoses increased 787% between 1998 and 2018 in the UK, with estimated prevalence rising from one in 2,500 children 80 years ago to one in 36 today. Happe, who was appointed CBE in 2021 for her autism research, warned that behaviors previously considered "a bit of eccentricity" are now being labeled with medical terms.
[1] https://www.thetimes.com/uk/science/article/self-diagnose-neurodivergent-99l9kl8v5
Its almost like (Score:2)
Theres an incredibly wide spectrum in human minds, and theres probably a total of three people on the planet who are perfectly at the average point of every single parameter. Im not denying the troubles that profoundly neurodivergent people face, but it turns out that nearly everyone is a little bit off the mean, one way or another.
Re:Its almost like (Score:4, Funny)
It seems our idea of the mean, is meaningless.
Re: (Score:2)
> It seems our idea of the mean, is meaningless.
It may also be due to multiple dimensions. That is, most people may be near the mean on many/most dimensions but away from the mean on one or a few dimensions.
Re: (Score:2)
Not really. But "the mean" is an abstraction - it is very useful for some purposes, but only if it is clearly understood.
Re: (Score:1)
> and theres probably a total of three people
That many?
Alternatively... (Score:2)
We can quote that British doctor from Jerome's "Three men in a boat, nevermind the dog".
He wrote a great prescription to the very sick gentleman from Chapter 1, which is no less helpful today as it was in 1889.
> 1 lb. beefsteak, with 1 pt. bitter beer every 6 hours.
> 1 ten-mile walk every morning.
> 1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
> And don't stuff up your head with things you don't understand.
Re: (Score:2)
I remember that the psychologist and statistician Kahneman had a story about how the Israeli air force decided to design a new "one size fits all" seat for its jet fighters. After many complaints and some injuries, a survey was done and it was discovered that this seat - painstakingly designed to fit the average pilot - did not in fact fit perfectly any one pilot in the whole air force. It was a perfect fit for the average pilot, but not for any real pilot.
I couldn't locate a reference, as the Web is chock
Re: (Score:2)
I think that the monarchy problems have more to do with [1]inbreeding. [sciencetimes.com]
[1] https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24610/20200107/inbreeding-among-royals-14-monarchs-who-experienced-the-side-effects-of-incest.htm
Re: (Score:2)
I think it has more to do with George Carlin's observation:
"Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"
Re: (Score:2)
She departed, Zed, almost full three years ago. She must be approaching Alpha Centauri by now.
When everyone is neurodivergent.. (Score:5, Insightful)
When everyone is neurodivergent, no one is.
Maybe "we" are meta-neurodivergent (Score:1)
We are neurodivergent, but in divergent ways.
Re: (Score:2)
People are just addicted out of their minds to fucking smartphones and social media. We are running this insane social experiment that is depleting everyone's dopamine and thereby their drive and attention span. Then everyone starts thinking they have ADHD when in fact their minds are being eaten away by the instant gratification of notifications, likes, news, engagement as big tech has monopolized their eyeballs and attention to their platforms, using real psychological tricks of addiction. Yes, these moth
Re: When everyone is neurodivergent.. (Score:2)
> Yes, these motherfuckers have psychologists on their payroll whose job it is to make use of their apps as addictive as possible.
I guess I must be neurodivergent. Because I find this crap to be annoying as hell.
Re: (Score:2)
Being human just means everyone is screwed up in unique ways.
Re: When everyone is neurodivergent.. (Score:2)
"The majority is always sane."
Why does this remind me? (Score:2)
I'm reminded of the 90s crisis where we put kids on Ritalin because they were being kids.
We'll look back on this in the future and say WTF.
[1]Requisite South Park [youtube.com]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhMiYV04Q2k
Re: (Score:1)
not to mention what is done to them if they like a costume associated with the opposite sex
Drugs (Score:2)
When I was in elementary school, there was one kid on Ritalin. Everyone knew who it was, everyone knew when he wasn't on his medication, as he literally could not sit still for more than a minute when he was off of it. Fast forward a decade or so, and I was talking to my fifth grade teacher after bumping in to him at a store, and he mentioned how nearly a third of the class was on Ritalin now. By his admittedly non-professional estimation (though he observes students every single day of his job) a couple o
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm reminded of the 90s crisis where we put kids on Ritalin because they were being kids.
> We'll look back on this in the future and say WTF.
> [1]Requisite South Park [youtube.com]
I was expecting this South Park alternative to Ritalin for the treatment of ADHD [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhMiYV04Q2k
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wua83tyJFPo
Re: (Score:2)
The whole episode is great. The Phil Collins scene was a double winner though. They dunked on Ritalin and Phil at the same time.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah.
Fundamentally, you can take any living human being, and find something 'neurodivergent' about them.
That kid twirling their hair while reading? Stimming, clearly. That kid who would rather go outside and play than read a book? ADHD, clearly. That kid who'd rather read than play football? Social anxiety, obviously.
When I was a kid, 'autistic' meant you flapped your arms, and screamed when somebody turned on the lights wrong. Behavior that nowadays gets labelled as 'ASD' was..weird. Awkward. Shy.
Most people are height-divergent (Score:1)
Unless you broaden "typical/average" enough, most people are [1]height-divergent [wikipedia.org] too.
How far do you want to zoom in or zoom out from average (assuming a mostly-bell-curve distribution) when declaring what is and is not "typical?"
How many people are within a few millimeters of the average/typical height for their country? How many are +/- a few decimeters?
Granted, test scores on autism, dyslexia, ADHD, etc, don't follow a bell curve, but the point is similar: Unless the particular measurement has a clear-cut
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country
Re: Most people are height-divergent (Score:2)
I'd rather be neurodivergent than short. Chicks dig tall guys, even the weird ones, over short and normal.
Custom cockpits (Score:5, Interesting)
So, way, way back in the day, the Air Force (might have still been the Army Air Force - that's how old this anecdote is) decided to standardize cockpits. Making them highly adjustable is a huge pain in the ass, and very expensive.
So, they brought in thousands of volunteers for measurement. They measured torso lengths, the lengths of shinbones, the lengths of upper arms, the lengths of fingers, etc. Virtually every body part that had a length was measured.
They compiled tables of statistics for all of these data sets. As expected, each measurement had approximately a normal distribution - a bell curve. The plan was to build a cockpit with minimal adjustment that was still able to fit the vast majority of people in the wide middles of these bell curves.
Punchline: Their new cockpit didn't fit anyone .
That's an exaggeration, of course. It fit a few people. But not many, and certainly not the majority of pilot applicants like they hoped it would.
It turns out that even though almost everyone is basically normal in most measurements, almost everyone is also highly abnormal in at least a few measurements. You have stubby fingers. Joe has unusually long thigs. Bob has short forearms.
The moral of the story - and the way it ties in to the article - is that if you have enough dimensions, it is very normal for everyone to be abnormal in some way.
Re: (Score:2)
> So, way, way back in the day, the Air Force (might have still been the Army Air Force - that's how old this anecdote is) decided to standardize cockpits. Making them highly adjustable is a huge pain in the ass, and very expensive.
> So, they brought in thousands of volunteers for measurement. They measured torso lengths, the lengths of shinbones, the lengths of upper arms, the lengths of fingers, etc. Virtually every body part that had a length was measured.
> They compiled tables of statistics for all of these data sets. As expected, each measurement had approximately a normal distribution - a bell curve. The plan was to build a cockpit with minimal adjustment that was still able to fit the vast majority of people in the wide middles of these bell curves.
> Punchline: Their new cockpit didn't fit anyone .
> That's an exaggeration, of course. It fit a few people. But not many, and certainly not the majority of pilot applicants like they hoped it would.
> It turns out that even though almost everyone is basically normal in most measurements, almost everyone is also highly abnormal in at least a few measurements. You have stubby fingers. Joe has unusually long thigs. Bob has short forearms.
> The moral of the story - and the way it ties in to the article - is that if you have enough dimensions, it is very normal for everyone to be abnormal in some way.
I think this cockpit thing is urban legend. You are describing the analysis done by Gilbert S Daniels in December 1952 for the Air Force report "Anthropometry of Flying Personnel" report of September 1954. If you read the report they are talking about the new Air Force skin-tight garment being worn to counteract the physiological stresses of modern jet aircraft. It being about clothing makes sense when you look at the 10 measurements Gilbert Daniels surveyed: height, chest circumference, sleeve length, cr
Re: (Score:2)
Except in this case, people are rewarded either formally (here's your government check, crazy person) or informally (you are so brave!) by their virtue signaling.
I think we're pretty nearly done as a species so (shrug).
Modern society breeds neurodivergence (Score:3)
Our ability to gather and reference information has drastically exceeded our ability to process it in the last 20-30 years. Not only do we have information overload, but our standards and expectations are rapidly rising, so you can't ignore it. Your job wants you to drink from the firehose and if you don't, a younger, more ambitious person will get promoted over you and you may find yourself laid off. The computer literacy and expertise we expect from a gig worker, like an Uber driver, is enough that you would have been labeled a computer genius in 1989. If you could meet your 1995 counterpart, their mind would be blown by how much is expected of them.
I see it all around me, but I live near MIT and am a software engineer (most of my coworkers are problematically on the spectrum) my children are diagnosed with ADHD and ASD and I have Asperger's. My wife also has diagnosed and medicated ADHD...I'm more immersed in it than most of the world, but I think we're just the tip of the sphere.
You have infinite information for free on the web. You have infinite content to read, with no delay through your kindle. You have pretty much every TV show and movie ever created available for on-demand streaming, often for free. There's too many sources of information competing for your attention.
Even jocks are in on it. I have a literal degree in biochemistry. The average gymbro on Reddit knows more about cellular biology and nutrition than my professors in the late 90s. I've learned more from the internet in the last 5 years, for sure, than I did in my classes and I got straight As. That level of learning was an A on a curve in the late 90s...today, it's pretty standard from the roided out macho UFC-wannabes & insurrectionists with "interesting theories" on crypto and the age of consent (to steal 2 jokes from people funnier than me).
In order to adapt to the inflow of info and increase in expectations, you have to adapt...and that adaptation to information overload and insane expectations is to optimize your brain...focus your young plastic brain on learning (ASD) and ADHD is clearly a result of more demands on your attention than you have bandwidth to address.
Re: (Score:2)
Modern society is broken. And the strain on people's time is breaking our brains.
If it was just information overload, I think we would be able to manage just fine. I recently got a diagnosis for ADHD in adulthood. I've had it my whole life (inattentive type, and there's no doubt about this even if I didn't know before). I had plenty of slack time and so it was well-managed for the most part until having kids. Once I had zero free time, I lost the ability to cope. With ADHD, stimulants make the mind se
If you take an average... (Score:2)
you'll find that the majority of numbers aren't average.
yay?
"Typical" (Score:2)
"Once you take autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and all the other ways that you can developmentally be different from the typical, you actually don't get many typical people left,"
You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means.
Re: (Score:2)
It's hard to come up with a better term, though. Let's say there's four types of brain - A, B, E, F. The typical brain by averages is a C or a D but there are no C or D people in real life.
Middle-school phenomenon infects adulthood (Score:3)
I mentor a bunch of high school students on a robotics team. One thing I've noticed, particularly post-COVID, is that the students have a tendency to stand around and tell each other their diagnoses, and each one gets some attention for it from their peers. If you're the only one in the group who doesn't have a diagnosis (even a self-diagnosis) then you can either stand there and be quiet (and watch while everyone else gets attention), or you can say you're "just normal" (which kind of comes off like an a-hole and gets you labeled an able-ist), or you can just say you're neurodivergent too, and join in with the fun. I do appreciate that mental health doesn't carry the stigma it once did, but it's clearly swung crazy in the other direction now.
It reminds me... in recent years in Hollywood, production companies apparently had a diversity quota on the films they were making. There's a story from a cameraman who said when the diversity person comes around on set and asks him if he's a part of any marginalized group, he just says he's "non-binary." It's impossible to prove otherwise, and doesn't require you to act any differently. He said he thinks it's stupid, but this makes sure he's not at the bottom of the list when they start calling people for the next production.
Its become pretty clear that this has all peaked with Gen Z and it's starting to wane. It's pretty easy to buy into that stuff when you're 14 years old, but a few years later in your 20's it's pretty easy to look around and roll your eyes at anyone still playing up their neurodiversity as a badge of honor. It doesn't garner as much attention once you're in adulthood.
We got a lot better at diagnosing ASD. (Score:4, Insightful)
ADHD is more squishy than dyslexia and autism. I have family members with all of these and I have ASD. ADHD can be acute. Also, there's a MASSIVE difference between severe ADHD, like my son, and higher functioning ADHD, like my wife. Both qualify for a diagnosis and the medication for it is largely harmless when taken correctly...in fact most think of it as an intellectual performance enhancer, hence why so many take it in college casually. Therefore, there's little consequence for giving a diagnosis and little motivation for getting off the meds or changing your diagnosis when it no longer fits. . I imagine there are a lot more people identifying as ADHD than ASD/dyslexia.
ASD? Well, as most know, we got a lot better at diagnosing it. When I was a kid, only non-verbal children or those with knowledgeable and wealthy parents got a diagnosis. I grew up in poverty and my ASD WAS NOT high functioning back then....mine was treated with severe bullying by peers, including a lot of violence...like many kids my age who grew up in poverty. For my dad, his ASD was treated by the Marine Corp reshaping his habits and thus his brain.
If we had the same understanding in 1980 that we had in 2000 or 2010, I would have been diagnosed and put in ABA. Trained therapists would have explained to me that my harmless behavior was really off-putting and if I wanted to make friends, I would have to do things that are not very intuitive. It would have helped me drastically to make friends and understand my teachers better and learn more.
I am used to hearing people bitch about the explosion in ASD diagnosis. I get why they feel that, but they need to consider the alternatives.
Back in their day, it wasn't called ASD. Your peers just bullied the shit out of them. You made fun of them constantly and even if you were a "good boy" and weren't mean to them, your peers did. I was pretty suicidal because every day was being made fun of systematically, no matter what I did.
Kids need someone to make fun of to establish their identity...to define what they "aren't" with their friends as a bonding experience, so they project insults of their insecurities....thus some kid in you class was labeled gay, dumb, smelly, whatever the kid sending the insult was insecure about...regardless of their behavior. Typically that kid had some learning disorder and was identified by the group as safe to pick on. It's shitty, but natural...but because back then it was not only tolerated, but they weren't getting help from trained professionals to function in society better. Life was hell and never getting better until I moved from home.
So before you bitch about "back in my day...."...take a closer look at how shitty things used to be.
Crazy! (Score:2)
Sic.
We are all defective (Score:2)
So what? The only inacceptable defects are the ones that lead to intentional lack of respect for others.
It pays to be neuro divergent (Score:3)
At least in Canada according to my psychologist friends. They tell me that if you can get yourself diagnosed as "on the spectrum" you are entitled to $X from the Canadian government. As they described what qualifies, deep concentration, dislike of noisy environments, ability to focus, all qualities you need to do programming, I thought, Hey! I'm neurodivergent! I wish I knew earlier!
I'm sure there are people who suffer from being too far down the spectrum, so God bless them, and I wish no insult, I'm sure there are real challenges for some people, but as far as my life is concerned, all of those traits from the DSM that would make me "on the spectrum", were huge advantages over .. you know.. chumps and dummies... aka 'the average person'....?
80% (Score:3)
80% of people believe they are above average.
Oblig. (Score:2)
They are British after all.....
I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:5, Funny)
...which means I'm actually neurodivergent.
Re:I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's an umbrella term for many different conditions, so it's entirely possible for the majority to have one of them, but no single condition to be a majority of the population.
I think the more likely explanation here is that people aren't diagnosing themselves correctly. I see posts on social media sometimes from people talking about feeling anxious in situations that would make most people feel that way, or getting hung up on mistakes made long ago that probably nobody else remembers. Those are just normal things, but there are some conditions that make them *much* worse to the point where they interfere with your life in very detrimental ways. It's that degree of severity that I think a lot of people under-estimate when self diagnosing.
Re: I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:2)
So what this means is that a lot of people are having issues with the realities of modern life that effects their mental health *somehow* and we need a lot more focus on mental health care.
The world is at risk of being conquered by two egotistical madmen; its a lot to process.
Re: (Score:2)
People also misunderstand this topic.
If you go through the DSM-5, you'll absolutely find something that describes something you do or something you believe.
However, it's not a diagnosable mental illness unless it is both uncontrollable and has a significant negative impact on your life.
But, if you read the DSM-5 (or look this stuff up online), you'll realize we're all fucking nuts - except we aren't, we're just humans.
At one point in my life, I was a bit concerned about my sanity. So, I went and got tested.
Re: (Score:2)
> It's an umbrella term for many different conditions, so it's entirely possible for the majority to have one of them
If that is the really case then the medical profession have clearly defined the range that counts as typical far too narrowly and are treating what is actually a perfectly typical human as somehow "divergent" which leads to wasting medical resources.
However, I suspect your later reason is correct: people cannot correctly self-diagnose themselves. My brother was offically diagnosed with dyslexia when he was a kid and the doctor who made the diagnosis told my parents that it was uncommon for her to find s
Re: I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:2)
> I see posts on social media sometimes from people talking about feeling anxious in situations that would make most people feel that way, or getting hung up on mistakes made long ago that probably nobody else remembers.
Those bloody adverts for Liven don't help.
"You don't procrastinate you have cortisol addiction."
"People with ADHD do this too".
A load of old bollocks, all of it skirting the rules on advertising healthcare services. Not that Google ever does anything about adverts that violate their policies.
Re: I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:3, Insightful)
People love to feel special. Not much more to say really.
Re: I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:1)
Did you just say I'm legitimately neurodivergent because I've not (knowingly) eaten meat in decades?
Re: I'm not neurodivergent... (Score:2)
I'm still waiting for someone who calls themselves "queer" to explain - to this actual homosexual - what it means besides "look at meeee!".
Re: (Score:2)
Dude, you are fucked! That is about the most serious condition you can have! And there is no help and no support fot the likes of you either.