India's EV Paradox: Highest Subsidies, Lowest Uptake (indiadispatch.com)
- Reference: 0175585953
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/12/03/1329226/indias-ev-paradox-highest-subsidies-lowest-uptake
- Source link: https://indiadispatch.com/2024/12/03/india-ev-paradox-highest-subsidies-lowest-uptake/
> India's total EV subsidies amount to 40-50% of vehicle prices when accounting for GST (goods and services tax), road tax benefits, state subsidies and production-linked incentives. For larger vehicles like the Grand Vitara, the effective subsidy reaches 61%.
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> This dwarfs incentives in other major markets. China's subsidies represent about 10% of EV prices, while South Korea and Germany offer around 16-20%. The US provides roughly 26% through various federal and state programs.
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> Yet India's EV penetration significantly lags these markets. China has reached 24% penetration, South Korea 18%, Germany 20%, and the US 8%. India's 2% looks particularly stark in comparison.
[1] https://indiadispatch.com/2024/12/03/india-ev-paradox-highest-subsidies-lowest-uptake/
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This poor sod's inadequacy complex is so bad that even in his compensation fantasies he has to imagine someone else will do it for him.
We need the electrical equivalent ... (Score:3)
... of the Honda SuperCub for adoption of EVs in Asia to happen.
I'd bet the by far largest part of Indias and South East Asias economic activity runs off of small frame scooters and light motorcycles.
The Honda SuperCub is the prime example of what is needed. It's fuel efficiency is of the charts and second to none. A wire coat hanger and a box of paperclips is a viable source of spare parts and in a pinch you can fuel it with low grade paint thinner. It's design has remained basically unchanged since 1958, the motor was designed by Soichiro Honda himself and has been licensed and copied more than just about any other technical device in history. Most of small frame motorcycles worldwide have a powertrain based on its design. They last a lifetime and then some, you can get share parts in the most remote regions of the world and they're low on those the village smith might just whip up a new crank shaft for you from some rebar he has lying around or something like that. They're nigh indestructible and are valued family heritage even with current day half-nomad in Indias outback and remote afgan or mongol tribes.
The SuperCub alone has sold more than 115 million times, orders of magnitude more than any other powered vehicle. If you see any pictures of a family of 5 in Asia riding a motorcycle, it's very likely a SuperCub.
We need the equivalent of that in electric. Once that happens, adoption will happen with no problem. It might take a while because any monkey with a learning disability can repair Hondas ride with a pocket knife, but that would definitely be the litmus test for true EV adoption.
Re: (Score:2)
> We need the equivalent of that in electric.
It's called an e-Bike kit. Like with a motorized hub wheel. If the bike is mangled it can be moved to another bike.
Re: (Score:3)
Yep, eBikes are fantastic for efficiency, low pollution, and even range anxiety (20 mile range, and you are worried about going 22 miles one day? Pedal harder that one day, done!).
On the other hand they kind of suck for keeping weather off of you, for keeping warm when it is cold (ok, ok, “pedal harder, it’ll keep you warm”), and for keeping you dry when it rains. Basically they have many of the problems of regular bikes. Still they are vastly cheaper than even the cheapest of cars.
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Yes, I live where the weather is unpleasant much of the year, so I am not trying to bike to work. Luckily I am remote 4 days right now, but I am looking at promoting (have been encouraged to do so, which makes me think I can) and then I will probably have to come to the office for at least 3 for a while, and then move to 2, sigh.
I would love to have an EV and could even reasonably charge it from 120V given my driving habits, but all of our off-street parking is filled with an RV right now, so that's really
Apples and Oranges (Score:3)
India's subsidies explicitly exclude cars and focuses on: "electric two-wheelers, three-wheelers, buses, and trucks" -- and these vehicles have to be completely electric, no hybrids. So vehicles large enough to be considered "trucks" get subsidies.
Cheap Gas (Score:3)
India is one of the few countries that hasn't sanctioned Russia, meaning their gas is currently artificially cheap since they are one of the few remaining markets for Russian oil. I'm sure that doesn't help electric car sales.
How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it easy to add 10kW of power consumption to a home? Can you find 250kW DC fast chargers at many convenient locations when taking long trips? This might be the issue in India.
Re:How's the charging infrastructure? POOR (Score:3)
Huge problem. Especially since the home goown EV players are small.
High costs, poor electrical quality. Its a bit of a meme, but many still steal their electricity off of live wires, this does not help reliability.
[1]https://www.spglobal.com/mobil... [spglobal.com]
[1] https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/briefcase-india-ev-infrastructure-growth-nearly-fully-charged.html
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No and no. This is actually why EVs are a dead end in developing countries right now, and why a big question is what will happen there should large shipments of used ICEs that form majority of their fleets die out due to lack of sales of new ICEs in developed nations.
Considering that EVs have largely become a "second car in a two car household" thing in most places first, and "only car in household" second even for developed nations, meaning it's primarily a car for people who own a house and can install a
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
> Most of T*rump's supporters are klan members from third-world trailerpark trash states.
This sounds like political witch hunt but not to worry, you are hereby pardoned!
Re: (Score:1)
> Someday we'll have healthcare figured out like the big boys.
I'm perfectly happy with my healthcare and have been for most of my adult life.....especially without any govt involvement in it....
Lifetime US citizen.
Re: (Score:2)
The USA does not have issues with availability of charging infrastructure and it's trivial to add a L1 charger to most houses. This is about India. The USA has other reasons for its low EV adoption.
Re: (Score:2)
> The USA does not have issues with availability of charging infrastructure and it's trivial to add a L1 charger to most houses. This is about India. The USA has other reasons for its low EV adoption.
In the US, unless you are in California and some other select cities, you very much DO indeed have problems with availability of charging infrastructure.
I live in New Orleans and according to the maps I've been given for publicly available charging stations, there are precious few of them....most of the ones li
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
China is building coal-fired power plants to charge EVs, is it better for your vehicles to be run on fossil fuels or coal?
Re: (Score:2)
Coal is a fossil fuel.
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PRC isn't doing "NEV" (Chinese propaganda language that calls them "new energy vehicles") transition for some silly narrative reasons. They're doing it because they're preparing for a long term stand-off with the West over Taiwan. Part of that is maintaining state logistics in face of a likely blockade of oil shipments going from Middle East to PRC either around Indian subcontinent, or Straight of Malacca. Both are well outside current strike range of PLAN, so there's little they can do about it without goi
Re: (Score:3)
China does not. While China is indeed building coal fired plants, it adds even more renewables to the grid. China builds coal fired plants at a rate less than its economic growth and electric energy usage growth. That means, that each EV is powered by less and less coal generated electric power, because the share of coal-fired plants in electric power generation shrinks.
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
> China is building coal-fired power plants to charge EVs, is it better for your vehicles to be run on fossil fuels or coal?
[1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/m... [forbes.com]
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:3)
The only way they become a thing in India is if they have battery swap stations like China built out.
But that either means one primary company, or all of the companies agreeing to one battery standard. ... and likely increasing the cost of the cars a bit, as you don't have as much flexibility when designing them
And you actually need reliable power going to those stations
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not even that. Think about the actual use cases in India. Who actually buys vehicles in India? To even afford to buy a vehicle, someone has to be on the higher end of the income scale.
The USA has ~0.85 four-wheeled vehicles per person. India has [1]0.034 four-wheeled vehicles per person. [dataforindia.com] The average Indian is FAR more likely to walk, use public transportation, a motorcycle, or a moped to commute to a job, go for groceries, etc.
The reason to have a car in India is LITERALLY to show off that you're a
[1] https://www.dataforindia.com/vehicle-ownership-in-india/#:~:text=There%20are%20around%20260%20million,1000%20people%20in%20the%20country.
Re: (Score:3)
Seems like the next logical step is for more people to get an ebike, not an electric car. And apparently the ebike market is growing at 10% per year.
[1]https://www.mxmoto.co/blogs/el... [mxmoto.co]
[1] https://www.mxmoto.co/blogs/electric-bike-market/
Re: (Score:3)
> Seems like the next logical step is for more people to get an ebike, not an electric car.
Indeed. But a car is seen as a status symbol. India's gender imbalance is not as severe as China's, but enough to put pressure on young men to invest in status symbols to attract a GF/bride.
Another problem is that India spends way more on fossil fuel subsidies than on EV subsidies.
The fuel subsidies are especially stupid because India imports, like, 98% of its oil.
The first step should be to remove the fossil fuel subsidies and replace them with taxes.
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
The reason the battery swap stations are so well used in China isn't personal use... it's taxis.
And those could be running for many hours every day, when a personal car is usually about commuting or errands.
I don't know what the standard is for taxis in India (sitting on the back of a motorcycle? Jitneys?), but there should be an attempt to electrify those first, busses, and last-mile delivery trucks (long distance will probably need to stay gas, or maybe hybrids)
Re: (Score:3)
India has more cars than the USA has people. The demographics of India skew your comparison, the USA has a far higher urbanisation rate than India, and many people who live in cities drive cars - they have some phenomenal traffic jams as a result.
No owning a car is not an advertisement that you're a rich arsehole, it's a reflection of where you live and work. Indian cars do not cost the same as a Cybertruck or a F-150. In fact one of the more popular cars in India costs less than the moped the 17 year old n
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps the Shipstone corporation would be a good bet?
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I'm currently Bangalore and we experience multiple powercut a day. That can last from few seconds to few hours.
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm currently Bangalore and we experience multiple powercut a day.
Dispatchable demand from EVs can stabilize the grid and reduce power cuts.
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
Who in India buys a car? It's a very, very small percentage of the population. EV subsidies are nice, but they don't make EVs cheaper to buy/operate than an ICE vehicle I suspect.
Is the electricity grid in India up to the task of recharging EVs as easily as an ICE vehicle can be fueled?
The issues in India go far, far beyond purchase price.
Re: (Score:2)
> It's a very, very small percentage of the population.
8% of Indian households own a car.
8% of 1.5B is 120 million people.
> EV subsidies are nice
India also subsidizes gasoline.
Subsidies are a great way to buy votes, so all political parties promise them, and none dare to cut them.
> Is the electricity grid in India up to the task of recharging EVs
EVs are dispatchable demand. They are mostly charged at night and add little to peak demand.
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
> Can you find 250kW DC fast chargers at many convenient locations when taking long trips? This might be the issue in India.
That's so adorable - you think the issue holding back EV adoption in India is because going on long trips is too inconvenient with an EV that relies on a public charging network?
You really think the average Indian takes enough long-distance road trips (defined as a trip that requires multiple charges to get from start to destination) that an EV doesn't make sense to them?
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
What charging infrastructure?
I went to Tataâ(TM)s to try out their Nexon EV and asked about superchargers and their locations. A sheepish sales guy told me there was one next door but it didnâ(TM)t work.
Recently on Twitter/X an EV owner related his travails driving from Bangalore to Chennai. Long story short his battery went dead on the highway and he had to get towed. Note that Bangalore is allegedly one of the high tech aware cities in India.
The other problems are almost no apartment complexes h
Re: How's the charging infrastructure? (Score:2)
They should maybe subsidize building of toilets and chargers first, before trying to sell ecars.
Re: (Score:2)
> They should maybe subsidize building of toilets
The Indian government spends billions of rupees on toilets.
But the root problem is cultural rather than economic.
> and chargers
Chargers are not a significant barrier to EV adoption.
I've had an EV since 2015 and haven't used a public charger in years.