China Retaliates Over New US Chip Restrictions (yahoo.com)
- Reference: 0175585535
- News link: https://slashdot.org/story/24/12/03/1138201/china-retaliates-over-new-us-chip-restrictions
- Source link: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-bans-exports-gallium-other-102308172.html
The commerce ministry [1]halted shipments of gallium, germanium, antimony and related compounds, citing national security concerns. These materials are crucial components in advanced electronics and military hardware, with China controlling 98% of global gallium production and 60% of germanium output, according to U.S. Geological Survey data. The move comes in direct response to Washington's new restrictions on semiconductor exports to China, including controls on high-bandwidth memory chips used in AI systems and limits on manufacturing equipment sales.
[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-bans-exports-gallium-other-102308172.html
Not just minerals China is cutting off (Score:3, Interesting)
Chinese banks [1]are cutting banking services for Russian banks [newsweek.com] due to U.S. sanctions. Not a good look when your next door neighbor won't launder your money for you.
[1] https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-banks-sanctions-blow-1994542
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Yeah, but China has a workaround, short-lived "burner banks" that don't operate on the international scene, and don't worry about being sanctioned. [1]https://www.gisreportsonline.c... [gisreportsonline.com]
[1] https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-russia-finance/
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> Yeah, but China has a workaround, short-lived "burner banks" that don't operate on the international scene, and don't worry about being sanctioned. [1]https://www.gisreportsonline.c... [gisreportsonline.com]
If you read the article (which is older than OPs article) it supports it...
[1] https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-russia-finance/
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I have been reading about Chinese banks cutting business ties with Russian banks for at least the pass 6 months.
Not sure if this is even more banks cutting ties or just a repeat of the same stories.
Gallium... (Score:5, Informative)
Since everyone is pontificating about their personal politics, etc... on a tech site...
Gallium is a notable dopant in semiconductor manufacturing. But it's just that, a dopant. It's properties are critical, but the amount used is kind of trivial. Worldwide I think we're up to maybe 700 - 900 tons of production a year, and only roughly 300 tons of that gets highly refined for semiconductor manufacturing.
Gallium has no primary ore. None of the crustal forces or geochemistry on Earth result in concentration. It's primarily extracted as a waste byproduct from aluminum & zinc smelting. Idle production from existing aluminum smelting is estimated at 2600 tons/yr.
So gallium is not a problem...
We used to make all of this stuff (Score:1)
We used to produce all of these minerals.
We can do it again.
We stopped because environmental regulations in this country made it cheaper to get them from somewhere else.
Those environmental regulations are going away , which is a damned shame for multiple reasons, but does make this a non-issue.
The prices of these minerals will go up, but they are mostly used in scarce quantities so that will not have a huge effect on prices for most goods which use them.
The only people this is going to be a big problem for a
lol troll (Score:2)
I would think that I was being penalized by Chinese mods, but there are comments in this thread which look down on China much more, so I conclude that it's just one of the coward trolls whose head I live in at all times.
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You're preaching to the choir, or at least I'm in the choir. I had a good paying job mining job with a bright future until Clinton, Gore, and Babbitt decided the West should be preserved for high quality low cost vacations for the urban elite.
After my own personal lost decade I did get a job at a chemical plant that made polysilicon for the solar market. Then the next Democrat, O-blah-blah, got into a trade war with China and they retaliated with a 57% tariff on polysilicon. The company held on until I reti
looking at the long term... (Score:2)
China has stated they plan on taking Taiwan by end of 2027... is the US supposed to wait until they are in a hot war with China and respond to them cutting off the supply then, all the while keep feeding the dragon more advanced tech? Only reason China has dominance in the rare earth market is they spent the last 30+ years undercutting prices, flooding the markets and buying up competition. Which had the benefit of cheaper minerals for the world, but also a single supplier dominance that can cut you off w
US stupidity (Score:2)
> ... with China controlling ...
The US had years to do this, why now? To be precise, what prompted this stupidity? The US doesn't have any leverage, which is why China is a problem in the first place. This trade war was always going to end badly ... for the USA.
The US can't bully the UN into a police-action invading China. What did the US think was going to happen?
Re:US stupidity (Score:5, Funny)
China has leverage temporarily. The only reason it has "cornered" the market on some rare earth minerals is because many are very "dirty" to refine. So we watched as production shifted to a country that doesn't care and isn't accountable to its people for significantly polluting their own environment to export those metals for profit.
I suspect this is going to be very temporary. There isn't sufficient domestic demand to soak up the output of China's production. Without this export machine, their economy will collapse. The aftermath of that will make Tiananmen Square in 1989 look like a picnic. When China has sudden political change thrust on it by its own people, the aftermath doesn't just strip their ruling elite of their wealth...their heads often follow. They'll blink.
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No one listens when you use derisive names. That's the point about Trump's crap. The only people who listen are his enemies, hence why he's the world's biggest troll.
Just stop listening to him and the world is a better place.
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That would only work if he didn't have power. We don't have the option to ignore the crap Treason Fuck Trump, Antisemitic Afrikaner Apartheid Shit Elon, and the rest of the Shitnazi Klan Republicans are doing in our country right now.
Re:US stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
I did recovery from codependence. A few principles:
1) I have no control over anyone but myself, and even then it's limited by my will to change.
2) I had to learn to accept the world as it is for sanity and serenity. Like that Donald Trump is who he is and I have no say over it.
3) I needed to emotionally detach from the things out of my control. Like Trump.
4) I needed to create valid boundaries that protect my serenity. Protecting things critical to me and my day to day life. Thinking bigger than my personal life is a pathway to codependence and essentially illness.
It's been a real help. If this sounds like a cure for TDS, it kind of is, but it affects the rest of your life also. "We apply these principles in all our affairs"
Discourse (Score:3)
Well said.
I would also add: if I have something to say about an an issue, I (try to) directly address the issue, not the person. Even when I find them aggravating. What little power we do have relates to discussion and sharing ideas about the issues at hand, and what charities we do — or don't — thoughtfully engage with.
While many are locked to one side or the other in our highly polarized political climate, some people can be moved by reasoned discussion. I even try to be one of those people. M
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Thank you and agreed. Though I think I was one of those people who could be reasoned with the whole time. We've seriously lost the ability as a body politic to even discuss why people think what they do. The moment you question a belief, you become anathema. It's like religion at this point.
The older I get, the more I realize that political rhetoric is aimed at a target that is not me. For instance, the first election I voted in was 1992. I bought into the whole 'new beginning' thing of Clinton and gett
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> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
Now ultimately, I think there's a better battle to be won in making the democrats no-longer a right wing rump party than trying to cure whatever is going on with the republicans, but I get being outraged.
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We could also quote Lenin on breaking eggs and making omelettes. But we can also note that pretty much all political movements are created by "dark triad" Cluster B personalities, and it shows.
Health is not congruent with political activism.
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Yes, let's just stop listening to the guy who was just elected to the only office in the United States with blanket immunity against prosecution, and is busy trying to install cabinet secretaries and ambassadors whose only qualification appears to be unending loyalty to him, followed by a long list of disqualifications if not alleged (or in some cases, proven and convicted) crimes.
Ignoring him won't work. Ignoring him is what got us a second term - the "last minute" voters who didn't pay any attention to w
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So how is that paying attention to unhealthy rhetoric working out for you? Figure out a way to stop him yet?
You make your own choices, but I think paying attention to him is _exactly_ what got us here. He's a troll who strategically freaks people out to get the results he is looking for. It's repeated over and over again and people don't get this. My ex-wife was a narc manipulator, my stepfather was a salesman manipulator, both psychopaths, so i'm perhaps better positioned to see this, but isn't it obvi
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You sound like Trump too.
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You might consider using an actual name in there somewhere so anyone that isn't already in your little indoctrinated echo chamber knows what the hell you're talking about.
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China doesn't need to export rare minerals to the US to keep their economy going though, that's a very small part of the Chinese economy. Also the trump administration *probably?* isn't immunine to drastic changes in the US economy, although saying trump can do stupid things and suffer consequences for it hasn't worked out very often. Of course you love trump and don't undestand the last sentence I just wrote, so I'm sure in your mind his tarriff ideas are pure genius.
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No, but they sure need to export the rest of the stuff, you think this will end here?
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You lost he got richer and stayed out of jail thats winning in america,
Re:US stupidity (Score:5, Insightful)
Please remind me who has been president for the last 3 years, I must have missed something.
Straight from NBC, emphasis mine.
> The United States on Monday launched its third crackdown in three years on China's semiconductor industry, curbing exports to 140 companies, including chip equipment maker Naura Technology Group, among other moves.
> It comes just weeks before the swearing-in of President-elect Donald Trump, who is expected to retain many of Biden's tough-on-China measures.
[1]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/w... [nbcnews.com]
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-announces-new-export-controls-china-chip-industry-rcna182579
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I'm reminded about a cliche involving stopped clocks.
All tariffs and export controls are not equal. I have no problem believing that the current administration has been looking at actual data and events and making a decision, rather than "I have a button to push that causes my government to get money that I don't have to ask Congress for, and also has no meaningful oversight or restriction on who or what I can apply tariffs to (making it a perfect opportunity for graft); and I also have a lot of people tha
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Why. in this hypothetical trade war that causes china to collapse, does the US not collapse too? Are we less dependent on the international economy?
Actually nobody will collapse, we'll just be a less wealthy country when its all over and so will china. Horay?
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Rare earths: [1]https://www.japantimes.co.jp/n... [japantimes.co.jp]
[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/06/22/japan/science-health/tokyo-island-rare-metals-find/
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LOL you live in a fantasy of just how big a tiny portion of China's economic output really is. No their economy won't collapse because they aren't selling gallium et al. to other countries. And no you can't pop up a refinery in a day, this stuff takes several years of planning.
The reason this trade war tactics are used is because they work and they apply pain beyond a threshold for replacement. Your comment is just as valid for every other trade restriction China has imposed in retaliation for the last few
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The problem is that other countries are willing to go through a bit of pain if that's what it takes to diversify the supply chains and manufacturing. [1]https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor... [nikkei.com]
[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Interview/Germany-s-reliance-on-China-Russia-was-like-being-doped-vice-chancellor
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The problem for the US is that we have lost the ability to actually *do* anything in a timely fashion. We have rare earths here in the US, but we don't extract them because of NIMBY stuff. When that changes, i'll pay attention, otherwise we're going to be anally rogered by the likes of China.
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I don't have deep insight in the process, but the US has been working to ramp up in recent years: [1]https://www.energy.gov/article... [energy.gov]
Vietnam has been ramping up production as well.
[1] https://www.energy.gov/articles/biden-harris-administration-invests-32-million-strengthen-nations-critical-minerals-supply
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Really? They have surplus of something the US needs and can't get from elsewhere. They can up they price and the US will pay. Or they can not sell and their biggest competitor gets weaker. Nothing here will cause China's economy to collapse.
Re: US stupidity (Score:2)
You're wrong about China. It's a People's Democratic Dictatorship.
Just because they don't have *general* elections, doesn't mean they're not accountable.
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it helps Trump bring back jerbs to America - now your child can inherit a low paid jerb walking in an a toxic enviroment when you due of black lung in your 40's - It's the american way baby!
Re:US stupidity (Score:5, Insightful)
China has massive domestic demand from manufacturers who use things like gallium in semiconductors. There is no restriction on the export of finished components, only the raw materials.
The US is about to see a big spike in prices for domestic components using those materials, and then self-imposed tariffs on top for other things.
Re: US stupidity (Score:2)
I am waiting for someone to blame this on Donald.
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Easy: the USA - China economic war started in Trump's first term and only escalated since then
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Yup, and likely China will begin responding to the incoming administration before January. Why not do some pre-emptive tarrifs now and potentially cut them in later negotiations, which trump will claim he won hugely no matter what their actual outcome is? Any international thing that happens from the election to the inaguration is about the incoming administration, it would be silly to think otherwise.
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Fake news.
[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
Note the date, 2013. The Chinese implemented a 57% tariff on solar grade polysilicon.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/chinese-tariffs-may-hurt-us-makers-of-solar-cells-raw-material/2013/07/23/01ac60a4-f3d9-11e2-aa2e-4088616498b4_story.html
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Well, considering how badly he botched C19 and supply chains they could in some ways.
That being said this realignment has been a long time coming, and China dang well knows it as well. Why do you think they've been spending ridiculous sums of money on their belt and road initiative as well as in Africa trying to secure mineral rights? Did you even know about the second? They've been doing it for over a decade with the US and EU doing the same thing, but on a slightly more polite level, and the deals from
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> I wouldn't want to be a farmer if
If you think the damage will stop in the agriculture sector, you're just not thinking on it enough.
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I'm waiting for you to understand that export controls of sensitive technology with military applications have been a thing since the Export Control Act of 1949.
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The US is has been drinking it's own Kool-Aid for far too long now. The indispensible greatest country in the world can do no wrong and will emerge victorious from everything it undertakes. No brains needed. Results, accordingly, galore.
Another way to approach this - something has to be done about China, this is something, something has been done. Great success! Except.... not. The ascent of China cannot be viewed separately from the descent of the West in general, and the US in particular. Any policy that
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> ...The US, being nothing but a big Boeing of corruption, incompetence and lies by now, is going down. There is nothing but a complete wipe of all leadership theory, practice, institutions, law, and personell that could change the course. But none of those will give up their position in the nation without a fight, the only thing to take them out is a complete crash.
I agree with this, and pretty much everything you said above it as well. I'd like to see more, and more explicit, condemnation in your argument of the way in which corporate culture has spread like a cancer through the body politic to cause and exacerbate these problems, but to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to...
> All China has to do to surpass is stay afloat, and watch the show.
True, but I'm not sure they can do that. They're doing fairly well in the early part of the contest, but I'm not convinced they'll manage to stave off the serious consequences of demographic collapse for very much
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China exports $3.3T per year. Only $500B of that is to the US, and rare earths don't even get a mention in the major breakdowns. In the grand scheme of things I doubt it matters to them.
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The US is by far the biggest importer for China. It would be a huge blow to China if that market collapsed.
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And the US economy is totally dependent upon exports from China.
Say, who do you think wins that one? China might hurt, but they have other customers. We only have that one supplier.
Anyone who wants to reduce dependence on China would do well to increase local supply of whatever it is we're getting from China BEFORE fucking up your sole source of supply, no?
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They really don't. The US needs to buy this stuff a lot more than China needs to sell it.
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You are absolutely wrong in your assessment of the economic stability of China. Even if China HAS to sell to the US, with the proposed tariffs; the demand for some products will go down due to the increased cost and the increase in price that has to be passed on to consumers, and for the materials that are needed for US production and manufacturing, the cost of those raw materials will go up and the costs will be passed on to the consumers. The end result is higher costs for pretty much everything consume
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Is anybody really surprised that there's at least some external pushback to the opening vollies in the upcoming trade wars? We've already heard from Mexico, and even Canada might fight back. The country that will be the most effected by this is very likely going to be the US.
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ROTFL. The trade war is a creation of Wall Street, that is pressure for profits drove American manufacturing and mining to China because it increased profits. The Clinton, George W and Obama administrations stood by and let it all happen. Now we're reaping what Wall Street and 3 presidents sewed and tariffs by Trump and kept in place by Biden are starting to at least make an attempt at fixing our problems. The working class in this country has been undermined by trade with China and illegal immigration beca