Ask Slashdot: Have AI Coding Tools Killed the Joy of Programming?
- Reference: 0175478677
- News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/24/11/15/2138239/ask-slashdot-have-ai-coding-tools-killed-the-joy-of-programming
- Source link:
> I taught myself to code at 12 years old in the 90s and I've always liked the back-and-forth with the runtime to achieve the right result. I recently got back from other roles to code again, and when starting a new project last year, I decided to give the new "AI assistants" a go.
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> My initial surprise at the quality and the speed you can achieve when using ChatGPT and/or Copilot when coding turned sour over the months, as I realized that all the joy I felt about trying to get the result I want -- slowly improving my code by (slowly) thinking, checking the results against the runtime, and finally achieving success -- is, well, gone. What I do now is type English sentences in increasingly desperate attempts to get ChatGPT to output what I want (or provide snippets to Copilot to get the right autocompletion), which -- as they are pretty much black boxes -- is frustrating and non-linear: it either "just works," or it doesn't. There is no measure of progress. In a way, having Copilot in the IDE was even worse, since it often disrupts my thinking when suggesting completions.
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> I've since disabled Copilot. Interestingly, I myself now feel somehow "disabled" without it in the IDE; however, the abstention has given me back the ability to sit back and think, and through that, the joy of programming. Still, it feels like I'm now somehow an ex-drug addict always on the verge of a relapse. I was wondering if any of you felt the same, or if I'm just... old.
[1] https://slashdot.org/~DaPhil
As someone still on the outside (Score:2)
Thanks for the insight.
The whole sign-up process put me off from trying it out in the first place. I had wondered how the chatbot interaction went when actually using it for coding.
Re: (Score:2)
And yes, I do enjoy programming as a hobby. So am not too interested in AI anyway.
Programming will soon be an obsolete skill (Score:2)
Right now "programming" (such as it is) only still exists as a profession because as programmers we're the only folks who can really sanity check the AI's output, improve it where needed and/or know how to refine the input we give to the AI to get the desired code as output. Or do create code on our own when absolutely necessary because the AI just doesn't produce what is needed. But over time as we use AI more and more to create more and more of the code that we used to create ourselves, are our skills g
No (Score:2)
non-compete contracts and pay that doesn't keep up with maintaining certification has killed the joy of programming
AI tools are just an attempt to circumvent copyright while also benefiting from copyright
It makes for a reasonable auto-complete (Score:2)
I've been using it as a smarter than the LSP, for providing auto complete suggestions. The first time it spits out a chunk of code that's what you would have written, it's a little spooky. It would be a lot more useful if it had enough local context to adapt its suggestions to match the coding styles in the project.
Real programmers (Score:2)
Real programmers only use text editors. I've interviewed a number of candidates who cannot write code on a whiteboard because it doesn't have google. Sorry but that's a fail.
No, but I empathize. (Score:2)
I mostly don't feel the same way, but get exactly what you are saying.
For example, I used to carefully name all my variables. Now it's almost pointless because the AI will overwrite my variable names and its suggestions aren't that bad. However, if I really wanted to customize variable names I could just tell it and do.
It does change coding from a slower iterative process to a more frenetic iteration mode.
But personally I don't see it as it "'just works', or it doesn't" because a lot of times it
Young whippersnappers (Score:2)
I learned to code in the late 70s in straight hex (microcomputers were too small back then to come with compilers at 4K our system was expansive for the rime).
For us old timers, a lot of the joy was in knowing I did this myself. Even library subroutines reduce that, though they are unavoidable on modern systems. Nothing truly wrong with assistants or library references for something you can't do yourself.
Of course, a professional coder who needs to get a project done on time, that's different. Those of us w
No (Score:2)
Because I enjoy result of programming, not the act of programming.
The joy of programming is... (Score:2)
...actually writing and debugging code, and having the time and resources to do it well.
Getting frustrated by undocumented and bizarre bugs in frameworks or libraries is not joy.
Cutting and pasting sample code into your project and accepting that it works poorly is not joy.
Trying to figure out how really old, bad, undocumented code works is not joy.
Being forced to ship buggy code because the manager insists on meeting a date is not joy.
It's hard to see how AI assistants can make it any worse