Dutch Publisher's AI Translation Plan Sparks Industry Backlash (theguardian.com)
- Reference: 0175461663
- News link: https://slashdot.org/story/24/11/13/117203/dutch-publishers-ai-translation-plan-sparks-industry-backlash
- Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/11/it-gets-more-and-more-confused-can-ai-replace-translators
Award-winning translator Michele Hutchison, who won the 2020 International Booker Prize, argues that translation extends beyond word conversion. "We build bridges between cultures, taking into account the target readership every step of the way," she said, noting that translators convey rhythm, poetry, and cultural nuances while conducting precise terminology research.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/nov/11/it-gets-more-and-more-confused-can-ai-replace-translators
Translation can be an art (Score:5, Insightful)
Looking up words in a dictionary, looking up syntax in a style guide, are fine for translating grocery lists and simple news stories.
But once you hit more nuanced work (novels, poetry, etc.), translation can be a real art. I watch a fair bit of German-language television, though I'm a native-English speaker. And it's always interesting to hear what is said, then look at the subtitles. You get a feel for how a language is evolving.
Translation involves making choices about both the literal and implied meanings of words, grammar, syntax. It can even require a knowledge of the social, economic and cultural environment that the work was written in.
I have trouble believing that AI can interpret nuanced meanings. Humans need years of experience to convey meaning accurately.
Re: Translation can be an art (Score:1)
A decent LLM would probably do just fine with all that.
Re: (Score:1)
AI is way better than humans at noticing nuance when it comes to a large body of text. Human vigilance is fleeting, machine endures.
Re: (Score:3)
It can also be very culture specific. Imagine what most Brits think when they hear "biscuits and sausage gravy" vs. your typical American (especially if in the south) - and that isn't even changing languages....
I've seen such shitty translations from Humans... (Score:1)
that an AI can not do worse.
And I'n not talking crap from Unknown authors, I am talking about the complete works of H.P. Lovecraft, and computer and math texts from reputable editorials.
I know is little consolation, but trust me, things will not get worse than what they already are...
Why the backlash? (Score:3)
> Dutch Publisher's AI Translation Plan Sparks Industry Backlash
Why the backlash? If AI translations are indeed as good or even better than the work is in its original language without any need for human editing (not holding my breath) then human translators simply need to find a new line of work. If the translations need a significant amount of human editing, this publisher will either have wasted a lot of money to learn that lesson or go bankrupt.
Re: (Score:1)
Backlash comes from the fact that this will very likely put most translators out of a job. You can already see this starting to happen for things like indie games sold on steam. Before they would grab one of the translators from fiver, or have to do with utterly incomprehensible Engrish. Nowadays ChatGPT 4 translations are good enough to be decently comprehensible, being close to being on par with fiver grade translators.
And it's getting better rapidly, as ChatGPT3 translations were only marginally better t
Re: (Score:2)
> Backlash comes from the fact that this will very likely put most translators out of a job.
Wanna back that authoritative assertion up with some real world data? Because if things like Google Translate are anything to go by combined with the fact that these AIs are known to make shit up by I'm going to remain unconvinced that all human translators and editors are going to be made redundant. This stuff may be used to translate mundane text like instructions for household appliances but works of literature as well as texts that can expose you to major lawsuits if the translating AI makes shit up and
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. Go look at your favorite Japanese indie store for Japanese indie games in English.
It used to have basically three separate kinds of games. First, where there's someone who's American Japanese who did English version (very rare). Second, someone from fiver translated it, understandable but loses a lot of fine parts. Third, machine translated incomprehensible gibberish.
to
Now, we have two. First category, which is about the same as before. Second category which is quality wise almost on part because they
Re: Why the backlash? (Score:1)
The gaming industry is the worst example to use here, no one is going to court because a translation was off in a video game. Now if you start talking about things that have a real world impact beyond entertainment you are faced with situation where the nuance of languages and local dialects actually do make a huge difference. I believe there have actually allready been some real word implications in regards to this. [1]https://www.legalreader.com/ju... [legalreader.com] This one is specificly regarding translation memory s
[1] https://www.legalreader.com/judicial-mistranslation-changed-the-outcome-of-a-court-case/
I'm an anime fan (Score:1)
And I can tell you right now that Crunchyroll has been trying to use LLMs for translating anime and it does not work. The subtitles are an absolute mess. You can kind of sort of just barely understand what the bleep is going on and nothing else. And they are laughably bad at times.
I can't even imagine trying to use LLMs to translate a book in the state that they are in now. If I was a author I would be appalled at the prospect and the only authors I could see allowing it are ones with extremely bad con
Translate Terry Pratchett (Score:3)
I have never read a Terry Pratchett book (heresy, I know), but I recently came across a blurb talking about breaking rules of language. The example given was the response from one of his characters:
!
To which someone in the comments asked if you could do that, which of course you could (if you're Terry Pratchett).
I defy a LLM to translate that response other than saying, "Exclamation point".
As someone who did paid translation in his youth (Score:3, Interesting)
Fuck no. Absolutely not. We do NOT "We build bridges between cultures, taking into account the target readership every step of the way".
This sounds like "localizer" shit. The kind that wrecked quite a few good anime shows and Japanese game translations recently. Where they inject "Western sensibilities and buzz words" into it and think it makes it better.
It makes it strictly worse. In fact, doing this shit is exactly what they warn you against when they teach you how to do translations. You entire duty as a translator is to convey the original message as accurately as possible, with as little changes as possible.
I still remember minor "localizations" they gave us as examples for technical documents. Like "let's translate things to local measurement systems". And then it results in massive losses because there's an actual standard involved, and your "localization" caused a misunderstanding on what kind of screws were supposed to be used, or what kind of weld grade was supposed to be used, etc. Do not fucking localize. Translate only. That's your job.
I would argue the desperate need of translators to try to become "localizers" without informing clients properly about the damage this will cause to the material's accuracy is in a large part behind the move to translate using AI.
Reminds me of Dharma Bums (Kerouac) (Score:3)
I wouldn't trust AI to understand the true nuance - not yet anyway - it reminded me of this passage in [1]Dharma Bums (full text online) [avalonlibrary.net]
> "One night I explained the little bit I knew about haikus to Alvah Goldbook in the big kitchen of the shack...
> 'A real haiku's gotta be as simple as porridge and yet make you see the real thing.' ‘Here’s the most famous haiku of them all, written by Bash the Great Japanese poet two hundred and fifty years ago:
> Furu ike ya / kawazu tobikomu / mizu no oto.
> Which does not mean, as most people think, "The old pond, a frog jumps in, kerplunk!" but means "The old pond, a frog jumps in, the sound of water."
> You see the difference? In English we’d say "the splash of water" just to make it sound better but in Japanese it’s just ‘the sound of water.’ A frog jumps in, splash.
> It’s pretty simple to our way of thinking. In other words, haiku doesn’t have to explain everything, only imply it. The haiku was invented to give you a sudden sensation, a feeling of understanding of something there, a rush of feeling.
[1] https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Jack%20Kerouac%20-%20The%20Dharma%20Bums.pdf
We have some silly plans for that in the UK (Score:2)
After our conservatives were very strongly rejected at our recent election they have been getting nuttier and crazier.
One of the biggest failures was their default loathing of healthcare. They keep coming up with ideas to damage it. They have driven our healthcare up to nearly half what is spent per person in the USA!
One of their latest bright ideas is to use IT to translate the many languages patients need. If you have ever used Google Translate you will not be too keen to trust it with your life. If
When you are bi-lingual you DON'T translate jokes (Score:2)
When you are bi-lingual you learn NOT to translate jokes.
It almost never works and people end up with a question mark on their face
Translations of anything more complicated than a todo list is hard.
When you hear a bad translation it stinks from a mile away!
"... convey rhythm, poetry, and cultural nuances" (Score:2)
It's likely AI could do that too. I feel a prompt coming on...
Re: (Score:2)
It does it quite well already. Not great, but enough for a lot of horrible, utterly incomprehensible Engrish in indie Japanese games being sold on Steam becoming actually comprehensible and even readable recently.
It seems to be the new "translator memory" level of breakthrough. For those not in the know, "translator memory" became a thing in 2000s, when instead of translating everything by hand, you would use translation software that would over time record your translations, and then look for similar phras