News: 0175456273

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China Displays New Stealth Fighter in Race To Match US (msn.com)

(Tuesday November 12, 2024 @11:50AM (msmash) from the race-intensifies dept.)


China's air force showcased a suite of new armaments this week, including [1]a new stealth fighter and an attack drone , demonstrating its advancing ability to challenge the U.S. military presence in the Asia Pacific. From a report:

> The public debut of the J-35A stealth fighter and other weapons systems at China's premier airshow, which started Tuesday, represent the centerpiece in the Chinese air force's celebrations of its 75th anniversary -- a milestone in Chinese leader Xi Jinping's sweeping campaign to modernize the People's Liberation Army.

>

> A single J-35A soared over crowds of spectators in a brief flypast on the opening day of Airshow China in the southern city of Zhuhai, making a steep climb with afterburners before rolling away and streaking out of view, state television footage showed. Other new weapons -- including the "Jiu Tian" reconnaissance and attack drone and the HQ-19 anti-ballistic-missile system -- were also prominent in ground displays at the biennial airshow, as examples of the PLA's growing prowess in aerial warfare and air defense. Much remains unclear about these systems and their capabilities. Even so, Chinese officials and state media say the new armaments reflect the significant advances that Beijing has made in developing its air power and enhancing its ability to defend China's strategic interests.



[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-displays-new-stealth-fighter-in-race-to-match-u-s/ar-AA1tWb4O



Yeah, sure (Score:3)

by Inglix the Mad ( 576601 )

Also Soviet weapons are totes awesome. The Chinese carrier is the bestest.

Another Gen 4 fighter (see also the SU57 Faker, er, Felon) masquerading at Gen 5.

Re: (Score:3)

by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) *

The whole thing is a scam.

Israel just ordered 25 F-15's for delivery in 2031.

Did they forget they're "obsolete" or do they like burning a pile of $4B?

Re: (Score:3)

by VaccinesCauseAdults ( 7114361 )

I thought this was a typo at first, and you meant Israel is purchasing more F-35s. But sure enough it is F-15, albeit in the modernised version F-15IA. Incredible that the basic airframe will be 70 years old by the time they are all delivered. I saw the F-15QA demonstrated at RAF Fairford earlier this year definitely no slouch.

Re: (Score:2)

by chuckugly ( 2030942 )

The old girl is still a heck of a mule once the air defenses are sufficiently reduced.

Re: (Score:2)

by UnknowingFool ( 672806 )

The F-15 is a cheaper and capable fighter. Unless the opposing side has stealth fighters, it is more than a match.

Re: (Score:2)

by alvinrod ( 889928 )

Do they need anything newer (and much more expensive) when the nations that they would deploy these against are using technology just as or even more antiquated? It seems like a more pragmatic choice than buying something newer just for the sake of having the latest and greatest when you don't need any of those features.

They've been using F-15s for a long time now and having pilots already familiar with them and the support logistics for keeping the planes maintained and combat ready is also important.

Re:Yeah, sure (Score:4, Interesting)

by BeepBoopBeep ( 7930446 )

They ordered F15EX variants. They are the revised F15 airframe with updated EW, modern communications/eletronics, cock pit and radar (AESA). They are part of the High/Low mix, being in the low mix. They collaborate with F-35 in a high/low mix. You dont need to constantly use F-35 when the opponents air defense was blown to bits. The F15EX also carries a shit ton more munitions, its a missile truck and very cheap to operate as all the infrastructure exists today. The F15EX is brilliant and a variant that Saudi Arabia forked out the $$ to develop. The US just took what Saudi Arabia ordered and injected it with steroids to work with NATO allies to dominate the skies when air defense are nullified.

Re: (Score:3)

by RobinH ( 124750 )

You need enough advanced stuff to get air superiority and take out their SAM sites. After that you just need lots of aircraft that can take advantage of it and hit targets precisely.

Re: (Score:1)

by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )

Spending $4 billion is easy when you're given literal fortunes.https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spending-8e6e5033f7a1334bf6e35f86e7040e14

Re: (Score:1)

by DesScorp ( 410532 )

> The whole thing is a scam.

> Israel just ordered 25 F-15's for delivery in 2031.

> Did they forget they're "obsolete" or do they like burning a pile of $4B?

As long as the US is paying for it via defense aid, would they really care?

Re: (Score:2)

by Eunomion ( 8640039 )

There's a big difference between diminishing returns and "scams." F-15s are fine for Israel because none of their direct enemies can compete with them in the sky, nor have any chance of ever doing so. It's not a relevant comparison.

F-22 and F-35 aren't meant to be value buys (in any terms other than internal), they're meant to deliver an absolute. Apples and oranges. Or like saying plate armor is a scam because chain mail is way easier to mass-produce.

Re: (Score:2)

by cmseagle ( 1195671 )

> F-22 and F-35 aren't meant to be value buys

And yet, the F-35 can be bought in the range of ~$100 million per unit. It's damn near impossible to get an apples to apples comparison (e.g., does the Israeli F-15 contract include a bunch of missiles, spare parts, maintenance, etc.), but the F-15 and F-35 aren't in fundamentally different price brackets.

Re: (Score:2)

by MBGMorden ( 803437 )

They're not effective as a front-line fighter against the top tier enemies, but against the typical adversaries in the middle east an F-15 is still incredibly capable.

Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

by znrt ( 2424692 )

you don't need fifth generation stealth fighters to bomb women and children.

Re: (Score:2)

by nightflameauto ( 6607976 )

F15s work great for attacking anything other than a modern jet in the air. They ain't dog-fighters these days. Good delivery vehicles for short-range missiles though. And also intimidating as hell if you're on the ground and get buzzed by them. My uncle damned near wrecked his Harley trike over that little stunt out near a weekend warrior air facility.

Re: (Score:2)

by cmseagle ( 1195671 )

> Good delivery vehicles for short-range missiles though.

Why short range? Let your stealthy F-35s get up close and personal, and feed sensor data back to the F-15s so they can lob a few of the Meteors or AMRAAMs they're hauling.

Re: (Score:2)

by ole_timer ( 4293573 )

you mean us the tax payer as it's just a foreign aid transfer from us to lockheed...no Israeli dollars are harmed

Re: (Score:2)

by rossdee ( 243626 )

The F15 is made by Macdonell-Douglas so its Boeing getting the $$$$$$

Re: (Score:1)

by Tablizer ( 95088 )

Electronics and force integration often make a bigger impact than physical plane design. Upgrading an old plane's electronics can greatly improve it and extend its life. Plus, non-stealth planes are generally more maneuverable if one has to dog-fight because ground control etc. got nuked.

Re: (Score:2)

by leonbev ( 111395 )

On the flip side, I bet that it would still be pretty fun to fly around in the Chinese version of the F-35.

Sure, it's like getting the Temu version of the real thing, but it's still better than nothing if you're a Chinese jet pilot.

Re: (Score:2)

by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )

Don't let the appearance of cheap Chinese products fool you. They are by no means dumb or naive when it comes to manufacturing quality products for their military.

Re: (Score:2)

by larryjoe ( 135075 )

> Don't let the appearance of cheap Chinese products fool you. They are by no means dumb or naive when it comes to manufacturing quality products for their military.

Appearances can be misleading. The only real way to evaluate advanced weapons is in real combat. Something like the 1982 war between Israel and Lebanon/Syria where American-made fighter jets significantly outperformed Soviet-made jets (1 American jet downed compared to 80+ Soviet jets). Of course, the Israeli pilots were likely also greatly superior, so that has to be considered.

My guess is... (Score:2)

by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 )

...China hasn't been doing much war in recent decades, at least not as much as the USA & NATO. Sooo... maybe inexperienced designers with too little knowledge of what really matters in war?

They are getting more experience than you think (Score:2)

by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

Chinese soldiers are getting experience in Ukraine. I became aware of it when I saw a video blog produced by a guy serving in Ukraine in an auxullarly to the Russian Army. He was from Zhengzhou, where I know a lot of people, so it caught my eye. There is no doubt that they are observing this near-peer conflict and, like nearly everyone, taking lessons from it.

Re: They are getting more experience than you thin (Score:2)

by SuperDre ( 982372 )

There are no chinese soldiers in the ukraine, only north korean soldiers are in russia.

Re: (Score:2)

by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

I think you are wrong. [1]https://www.newsweek.com/china... [newsweek.com]

[1] https://www.newsweek.com/china-news-mercenaries-killed-ukraine-1962673

There is also. . . (Score:2)

by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

[1]https://nationalsecuritynews.c... [nationalsecuritynews.com] . . . Just google "Chinese soldier fighting in Ukraine" As I said, I mostly noticed because one of them was from Zhengzhou. If it hadn't been for that it would have passed me by too.

[1] https://nationalsecuritynews.com/2024/06/chinese-mercenaries-are-fighting-for-russia-in-ukraine/

Re: (Score:2)

by SouthSeb ( 8814349 )

This is hugely misleading. Two Chinese volunteers don't constitute exactly what one would think as "Chinese soldiers in Ukraine".

If you would than I guess you must also count all the other foreigners: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_fighters_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

Re: (Score:2)

by Hasaf ( 3744357 )

It is indicative of Chinese soldiers gaining experience in That near-peer conflict.

Re: (Score:1)

by gargeug ( 1712454 )

Right? There are a bunch of US/UK fighters volunteering as mercenaries to fight in Ukraine. Doesn't equate to US soldiers training in Ukraine, with the implication that this is a sanctioned, organized US effort.

It flew, so at least (Score:2)

by hdyoung ( 5182939 )

there was actual jet fuel in the tanks, as opposed to water. I guess we can call that progress?

JSF was a good investment (Score:2)

by Pinky's Brain ( 1158667 )

As long as China are spending money on this useless prestige shit they aren't making anything more dangerous. The USA can far more easily waste money than their potential opponents, so for the USA it makes sense to do so as long as the idiots stuck in WW1 mentality follow along.

Re: (Score:2)

by DarkOx ( 621550 )

Don't kid yourself nobody knows what a real gloves off near-peer conflict would look like, let a lone if it is even possible.

By possible I mean politically, while the neuclear genie prevents conflicts from turning hot in the first place if a real hot war between US and China, broke out nobody knows if a drat + more body bags returning than in generational member, that public option does not move to 'lets light those candles and roll the dice'

We have done nothing by war games and proxy conflicts in the way o

Exhaust (Score:2)

by Dan East ( 318230 )

Looking at the video, one issue is readily apparent even to a layperson like me. The engine exhaust is totally exposed. You can see the round nozzles and jet plume totally exposed, which makes it very easy for heat seeking missiles to identify and track the heat source.

The F-22 in comparison has rectangular ports with vectoring for the exhaust with radar-absorbing materials hiding the hot engine surfaces.

[1]Here's what I'm talking about with the F-22. [youtu.be]

Then the J-35 in comparison, [2]where the engine nozzles are to [youtube.com]

[1] https://youtu.be/2jHVTy_V_e0?si=gj3d35EsCkxwloGq&t=60

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf81FkMbvuA

Re:Exhaust (Score:4, Informative)

by Brandano ( 1192819 )

If your adversary is in range and on your six you have already done something really wrong. And by then RCS is not as important as IR signature. Anyway, this is not the F22 equivalent, it's the F35 equivalent. It's the cheaper multirole fighter to complement the J20, that is supposed to deal with gaining air superiority.

I thought the new thing was lasers (Score:2)

by lamer01 ( 1097759 )

To blind the incoming infrared seeking sidewinders. I am quite sure lasers will make heat seeking missiles obsolete quite soon.

New Chinese Stealth Fighter (Score:2)

by PPH ( 736903 )

I'll believe it when I see it.

Kiss me twice. I'm schizophrenic.