News: 0175437797

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Is There New Evidence for a 9th Planet - Planet X? (discovermagazine.com)

(Saturday November 09, 2024 @11:35PM (EditorDavid) from the forbidden-planets dept.)


This week Discover magazine looks at evidence — both old and new — [1]for a ninth planet in our solar system :

> "Orbits of the most distant small bodies — comets or asteroids — [2]seem to be clustered on one half or one side of the solar system," says Amir Siraj [an astrophysicist with Princeton University]. "That's very weird and something that can't be explained by our current understanding of the solar system." A [3]2014 study in Nature first noted these orbits. A [4]2021 study in The Astronomical Journal examined the clustering in the orbit and concluded that "Planet Nine" was likely closer and brighter than expected.

>

> Astrophysicists don't agree whether the clustering in the orbit is a real effect. Some have argued it is biased because the view that scientists currently have is limited, Siraj says. "This debate for the last decade has a lot of scientists confused, including myself. I decided to look at the problem from scratch," he says.

>

> In [5]a 2024 paper , Siraj and his co-authors ran simulations of the solar system, including an extra planet beyond Neptune. "We did it 300 times, about 2.5 times more than what was done previously," Siraj says. "In each simulation, you try different parameters for the extra planet. A different mass, a different tilt, a different shape of the orbit. You run these for millions of years, and then you compare the distribution to what we see in our solar system...." They found that the perimeters for this possible planet were different than what has been previously discussed in the scientific literature, and they supported the possibility of an unseen planet beyond Neptune.

>

> Scientists hope [6]a new telescope will have the potential to see deeper into the solar system. In 2025, the Vera C. Rubin Observatory on Cerro Pachón — a mountain in Chile, is expected to go online. The observatory boasts that in the time it takes a person to open up their phone and pose for a selfie, their new telescope will be able to snap an image of 100,000 galaxies, many of which have never been seen by scientists. The telescope will have the largest digital camera ever built, the LSST. Siraj says he expects it will take "the deepest, all-sky survey that humanity has ever conducted." So, what might the Rubin Observatory find past Neptune? Based on the current literature, Siraj sees a few possibilities. One is that the Rubin Observatory, with its increased capabilities, might be able to see a planet beyond Neptune... "Next year is going to be an enormous year for solar system science," he says.

NASA points out that the Hawaii-based Keck and Subaru telescopes are also searching for Planet X, while "a NASA-funded citizen science project called [7]Backyard Worlds: Planet 9 , encourages the public to help search using images captured by NASA's [8]Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE) mission.

And starting next year the Rubin observatory will also "search for more Kuiper Belt objects. If the orbits of these objects are systematically aligned with each other, it may give more evidence for the existence of Planet X (Planet Nine), or at least help astronomers know where to search for it.

"Another possibility is that Planet X (Planet Nine) does not exist at all. Some researchers suggest the unusual orbit of those Kuiper Belt objects can be explained by their random distribution."

Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader [9]Tablizer for sharing the news.



[1] https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/new-telescope-could-potentially-identify-planet-x

[2] https://earthsky.org/space/planet-9-evidence-solar-system/

[3] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13156

[4] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-3881/ac2056/meta

[5] https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=rGhzUUwAAAAJ&sortby=pubdate&citation_for_view=rGhzUUwAAAAJ:R3hNpaxXUhUC

[6] https://rubinobservatory.org/about

[7] https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/marckuchner/backyard-worlds-planet-9

[8] https://science.nasa.gov/mission/neowise/

[9] https://www.slashdot.org/~Tablizer



Planet X (Score:5, Funny)

by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 )

Is that some new toxic Elon Musk planet?

Re: (Score:2)

by zephvark ( 1812804 )

> Is that some new toxic Elon Musk planet?

Yes. It was formerly called Planet Twitter before its destruction.

Re: (Score:2)

by Tablizer ( 95088 )

> [toxic Elon Musk planet?] Yes. It was formerly called Planet Twitter before its destruction.

Now it's just a rubble pile emitting methane.

10th planet. (Score:5, Funny)

by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 )

Pluto got robbed.

They should rename it to Planet IX. (Score:2)

by rossdee ( 243626 )

"We have just folded space from Ix. Many machines on Ix. New machines. Better than those on Richesse."

And of course there is a lot more mentions of that planet in the original Herbert books.

Re: (Score:2)

by fibonacci8 ( 260615 )

> They should rename it to Planet IX.

Planet IX from outer space?

Re: (Score:2)

by newcastlejon ( 1483695 )

You want Hrungs to collapse in the solar system? Because that's how you get Hrungs to collapse in the solar system.

Re: (Score:2)

by geekmux ( 1040042 )

> Pluto got robbed.

So did the Romans. Planet X is the 9th planet? Really? Entire celestial zone named after ancient Gods and someone suddenly forgets how to count.

Re: (Score:2)

by Himmy32 ( 650060 )

Yeah, like December the twelfth month.

Re: Pluto was robbed (Score:2)

by Tablizer ( 95088 )

I think Pluto actually got robbed because the criteria for planet-hood is too vague. Thus tradition should have kept it as a planet. "Clear out its orbit" is not all or nothing. If even a big planet is in an unfortunate orbit, it may have trouble clearing its orbit if in competition with other body(s), at least for a good while until one or the other gets flung away.

It's a continuum between large and small bodies. Any attempt to draw a clear line will just generate tons of head-scratching edge-cases. Thus,

Re: (Score:2)

by transwarp ( 900569 )

Didn't we go through this with all the planets that were reclassified as "asteroids" when the term was coined? In the mid 19th century, there were a lot of planets in the solar system. If they weren't going to repeat that with the Kuiper Belt objects, Pluto should have been reclassified as soon as we started finding more.

Re: (Score:3)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

If Pluto is a planet, then there are thousands of planets. That would mean that they are looking for something like planet 2763.

Re: (Score:2)

by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 )

You can have thousands of planets if you want. Pluto will always be a planet whatever else they do.

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

I don't want thousands of planets. Neither does anyone else. That's why they demoted that chunk of ice that's identical to the thousands of other chunks of ice from the Kuiper belt.

But maybe for sentimental old fools like you, they should have grandfathered in Pluto, no matter how stupid that would be. However, to keep things scientifically correct, they would have to add an asterisk like the one on Barry Bond's baseball. So Pluto would be planet* 9*.

Re: (Score:2)

by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 )

Scientifically correct? Really?

When you're done defining and redefining "planet", we can try "woman" next.

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

That's ironic.

You're the one trying to cross-dress a minor chunk of ice into a full-fledged planet.

Re: (Score:2)

by LuniticusTheSane ( 1195389 )

No, we came up with a separate category for objects like Pluto, dwarf planets, because we expected to find a lot more. We found one more, Eris, and it's been silence since. If we count clearing orbit as a requirement for planethood, the solar system has four planets, Jupiter, Neptune, Uranus, and Saturn. Ten is a fine number for planets, Pluto and Eris should be allowed back in the club. Besides, we should have learned our lesson about leaving Eris out of clubs from the Iliad.

Re: (Score:2)

by LuniticusTheSane ( 1195389 )

I meant to say dwarf planets larger than Pluto, not just dwarf planets.

Re: (Score:1)

by Anonymous Coward

Yes, Pluto is a planet. Fuck You to anyone who says it isn't.

Pluto (Score:4, Insightful)

by Local ID10T ( 790134 )

Pluto will have its revenge!

The state of things (Score:4, Interesting)

by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

It's a big orbit, and though we're probably talking about a largish rocky world... at the model distance it'll be extraordinarily dim and moving very slowly. It's not easy to find anything like that.

Initially, they thought they'd find it in a year or two, but didn't get so lucky. And it there are some differences of opinion as to the most likely explanation for the evidence that has us looking for this planet in the first place, but luckily the required telescope work should be adequate for all possibilities that include there actually being a planet.

Unfortunately, the evidence isn't really strong enough to be certain - it's strong enough to make us look, but thin enough that there's plenty of room for it to turn out to coincidental and evidence of nothing.

With newer telescopes becoming available that should be better at the required survey, we're back to 'we should know in a few years'.

Re: (Score:1)

by Tablizer ( 95088 )

If it's Neptune-like, then it should be emitting heat and radio waves in a fairly predictable pattern and frequency. Optical scopes seem the wrong tool that far out.

Re: (Score:2)

by HiThere ( 15173 )

Well, we've got this dandy new IR telescope out in space just recently... of course it's pretty booked up.

Re: (Score:2)

by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 )

> It's a big orbit, and though we're probably talking about a largish rocky world

I'm not an astrophysicist, but aren't planets this size inevitably ice giants?

9th Planet? (Score:4)

by gosso920 ( 6330142 )

Yes. It's called Pluto.

Re: (Score:2, Troll)

by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

What about the other 4000 similar objects out there that it is sharing space with? Are they all planets, then?

We stopped calling Pluto a planet for a reason. It became useless for classification once we realized it was far from alone out there.

Re: (Score:2)

by schwit1 ( 797399 )

Pluto was grandfathered in.

Re: (Score:2)

by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

Not by the IAU, and in terms of what astronomers are going to say... their opinion matters and yours does not.

Re: (Score:2)

by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 )

If the people believe Pluto is a planet, then it does not matter what the elites say. You can't just disappear everyone's childhood memories like that. It's like telling them Mickey is not really a mouse.

If so then Planet X Found (Score:2)

by Roger W Moore ( 538166 )

The problem with that is that if you call Pluto the 9th planet then we have already found the 10th planet - it is [1]Eris [wikipedia.org] since Eris is actually larger than Pluto and also has its own moon. We have to have a line somewhere to separate planets from smaller objects orbiting the sun otherwise we are going to have thousands, if not millions of "planets" as every rock will count.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eris_(dwarf_planet)

Yoggoth (Score:2)

by Pf0tzenpfritz ( 1402005 )

We all know what unspeakable object is out there. We just cowardishly avoid thinking about it...

Re: Unspeakable object: Yoggoth (Score:1)

by Tablizer ( 95088 )

No, OrangeTribbleTop

Re: (Score:2)

by MrKaos ( 858439 )

> We all know what unspeakable object is out there.

Uranus?

Yes and no. (Score:3)

by Gravis Zero ( 934156 )

What we have is a "missing" amount of mass that in our star system that keeps our math in balance with the physical reality. It seems like the prevailing speculation is a planet we have yet to find but we honestly do not know. It should be called the dark planet theory and before someone claims it's a moon, I'll tell you, "that's no moon!"

Re: (Score:3)

by Retired Chemist ( 5039029 )

It is a long way away and probably pretty dark given the weakness of the light of the sun out there. Also they have no idea where to look. Space is big and planets are not really that large. If I am doing the math correctly, Neptune has a diameter of about 0.25 sec of arc. It was found by looking where calculations of its effect on the orbits of the inner planets. Pluto was discovered basically by accident. Just looking randomly, is not likely to distinguish it from all the other junk out there, if it

Re: (Score:2)

by Valgrus Thunderaxe ( 8769977 )

I'm willing to compromise. I propose Rupert McPlanetface.

Yeah (Score:2)

by phantomfive ( 622387 )

It's called "Pluto." (A dwarf planet is still a planet)

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

No, that would make Pluto planet 10, since by your definition Ceres would count as #5.

Re: (Score:2)

by phantomfive ( 622387 )

It's not my definition. It's the IAU's definition.

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

You can't have it both ways.

Either Ceres is planet 5 and Pluto is planet 10, or neither one of them is a planet with a number.

Re: (Score:2)

by phantomfive ( 622387 )

Does the IAU define the ordering numbers of planets?

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

Yes. They say that neither Ceres nor Pluto is a bona fide planet with a number.

Therefore your original assertion regarding a hypothetical 9th planet, "Yeah, It' called Pluto", is false.

Re: (Score:2)

by phantomfive ( 622387 )

Liar. They say Pluto is a dwarf planet. A dwarf planet is a type of planet.

Re: (Score:2)

by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )

And apparently your brain is a type of brick wall.

Re: (Score:2)

by phantomfive ( 622387 )

The IAU has not yet defined my brain as a brick wall.

It's the tenth planet, a--holes! (Score:2)

by Hey_Jude_Jesus ( 3442653 )

Long live Pluto! ;-)

Re: (Score:2)

by HiThere ( 15173 )

It's the planet the Fire Maidens come from. (ref Ed Wood)

I though that stellar approach was the solution (Score:2)

by Mspangler ( 770054 )

[1]https://phys.org/news/2024-09-... [phys.org]

[1] https://phys.org/news/2024-09-solution-cosmic-mystery-eccentric-orbits.html

Map the K Belt instead. (Score:1)

by Flamecation21 ( 9180069 )

We should put more effort into mapping the Kuiper belt, then. We might need to know where the good sized rocks are someday. Pluto was already a planet. Yes, it's small, but it's the only thing out there. Well, aside from Charon the orbiting 'moon' of Pluto. Delisting Pluto was a publicity stunt that got out of hand. We should be trying to educate Flat Earthers, not letting them play with the Big Map. If anything is found (probably Pluto again) Americans will just name it some derivation of Boaty McBoatface.

Re: (Score:2)

by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

> We should put more effort into mapping the Kuiper belt, then. We might need to know where the good sized rocks are someday.

The estimated total mass is about 10% that of Earth, and it's REALLY spread out, far out there, and very, very cold. Sure most of it is likely extremely accessible to resource extraction once you get to it since it's not in one big lump with all the good stuff hiding in the middle, but I'm not sure it's worth that much effort.

Now the asteroid belt, I believe it has much less mass -

Black hole theory (Score:1)

by jago25_98 ( 566531 )

[1]https://www.newscientist.com/a... [newscientist.com]

[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24933280-100-is-there-an-ancient-black-hole-at-the-edge-of-the-solar-system/

I represent a sardine!!