Can Heat Pumps Still Save the Planet from Climate Change? (msn.com)
- Reference: 0175382107
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/24/11/02/198243/can-heat-pumps-still-save-the-planet-from-climate-change
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/heat-pumps-were-supposed-to-transform-the-world-but-it-s-not-going-as-planned/ar-AA1sDozN
"Heat pump investment in the United States has dropped by 4 percent in the past two years, even as sales of EVs have almost doubled, according to data from MIT and the Rhodium Group. In 13 European countries, heat pump sales dropped [3]nearly in half in the first half of 2024, putting the European Union off-track for its climate goals."
> "Many many markets are falling," said Paul Kenny, the director general of the European Heat Pump Association. "It takes time to change people's minds about a heating system." Heat pumps — essentially air conditioners that can also work in reverse, heating a space as well as cooling it — are crucial to making buildings more climate-friendly. Around [4]60 percent of American homes are still heated with furnaces running on oil, natural gas, or even propane; to cut emissions from homes, all American houses and apartments will need to be powered by electricity...
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> In the United States, experts point to lags in construction, high interest rates, and general belt-tightening from inflation... [Cora Wyent, director of research for the electrification advocacy group Rewiring America] added, heat pumps are still growing as a share of overall heating systems, gaining ground on gas furnaces. In 2023, heat pumps made up 55 percent of all heating systems sold, while gas furnaces made up just 45 percent. "Heat pumps are continuing to increase their total market share," she said.
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> Homeowners may also run into trouble when trying to [5]find contractors to install heat pumps. Barton James, the president and CEO of the Air Conditioning Contractors of America, says many contractors don't have training on how to properly install heat pumps; if they install them incorrectly, the ensuing problems can sour consumers on the technology... In the United States, low [6]gas prices also make the economics of heat pumps more challenging. Gas is around three times cheaper than electricity — while heat pumps make up most of that ground with efficiency, they aren't the most cost-effective option for every household.
The Post also spoke to the manager for the carbon-free buildings team at the clean energy think tank RMI. They pointed out that heating systems need to be replaced roughly every 15 years — and the next cycle doesn't start until 2035.
The article concludes that "even with government policies and subsidies, many parts of the move to clean energy will require individual people to make changes to their lives. According to the International Energy Agency, the number of heat pumps will have to triple by 2030 to stay on track with climate goals. The only way to do that, experts say, is if incentives, personal beliefs, and technology all align."
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/heat-pumps-were-supposed-to-transform-the-world-but-it-s-not-going-as-planned/ar-AA1sDozN
[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/02/28/how-to-get-heat-pump-home/
[3] https://www.ehpa.org/news-and-resources/news/europe-avoiding-5-5-billion-cubic-metres-of-gas-with-heat-pumps/
[4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2023/home-electrification-heat-pumps-gas-furnace/
[5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/05/07/hiring-electric-contractor-checklist/
[6] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/why-gas-prices-so-high/?itid=lk_inline_manual_26
Re: (Score:2)
Another benefit of heat pumps, they can be yoused as air conditioners is summer and the extra hw/logick for it isn't realy thet complex or expensive, I call that a win win
Re: (Score:2)
Geothermal is fine where it is available. Most places it is not. You can use geothermal to create electricity to run a heat pump though.
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There's actually several kinds of geothermal.
The three that matter here are:
Geothermal heatpumps merely use the earth as a heatsink - dump heat into it during the summer, pull heat during the winter. Any imbalance* can be addressed by making the well a bit deeper or such to allow regular heat conduction to keep the temperature even year-round. Can be done pretty much anywhere not sitting right on bedrock. We could do it with bedrock, just more expensive drilling.
Geothermal heating on the other hand, depe
Re: (Score:2)
Heat pumps can be used in reverse for air conditioning. That's one of the appeals of them. Geothermal heat pumps are the way to go, they too can run in reverse. I had one in Indiana, best damn heating/cooling system I've ever seen.
Re: (Score:2)
In many places you'd need to combine geothermal with a heat pump to bring up the temperature to a useful level.
Only in places with close to surface magma it would work without a heat pump.
Water to water heat pumps are then the best alternative. Just some plumbing work to replace the heat pump.
short term solution (Score:2)
The long term problem is we are using more and more and more energy, converting it into waste heat you can't use except to sweat a lot
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know where you live or what your lifestyle looks like, but I shower with hot water every day. And I sure wish I could use some of that "waste" heat to heat up the hot water rather than a horribly inefficient resistive electric heater.
Re: short term solution (Score:2)
Heat pump water heaters are a thing. And would do exactly that.
Re: (Score:2)
Only thing to consider with them is that the water temperature have to exceed 65 degrees C frequently to avoid Legionnaires' disease.
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Drain water heat recovery devices are available at the local hardware store and even required for new builds in some areas. Simple passive heat exchange device that loops the incoming water supply around the drain pipe for around 50% efficiency. With the break-even cost timeframe, and required proximity between the heater and drain, it's not a particularly popular retrofit.
You do even hear yourselves? (Score:1)
"Can heat pumps stop the climate from changing?"
Install your own (Score:1)
Hey Slashdot users. I am guessing the comments here will turn into the usual opinionated stuff. Please consider getting off the computer and installing your own heat pumps and solar panels. For a tech minded group this is accessible stuff, and if you self install, with federal government incentives, the ROI is about 3 years.
Re: (Score:2)
True - for these that own and live in single/multiple family houses. But very likely most of folks here live in apartment complexes and rent.
Re: Install your own (Score:2)
You can't install either unless you're a licensed electrician or HVAC tech, not 100%.
Some regulation changes needed (Score:5, Interesting)
In some places, like Vermont for instance, you cannot get a homeowners insurance policy with just a heat pump. You must at least have a more traditional heat source.
Re: (Score:2)
Use a wood stove for backup heat.
In my state promised IRA rebates are 6 months away (Score:2)
I am looking to replace an AC with an air source heat pump, but Biden's promised IRA rebates for doing so are still not available - my state won't have them set up and available until (hopefully) this coming spring in 2025.. I can't be the only one waiting to save some $$$ on an over priced heat pump.
Oh, and a new refrigerant is about to be phased in (and the old one out). Another reason for consumers to be confused and decide to just wait for the new tech when they can.
I am not surprised (Score:2)
Where I live, there are heavy government subsidies all the HVAC installers promise to handle on your behalf and it still isn't really making heat pumps particularly competitive with forced-air gas furnaces with a tied-in traditional AC system.
And if you're worried about power loss in winter storms, it's a lot easier to attach a UPS or gas generator to a furnace than to a heat pump with its significantly higher power requirements.
can't install them? (Score:2)
"many contractors don't have training on how to properly install heat pumps"
That's puzzling, a heat pump is installed much like an air conditioner.
You insensitive clods! (Score:2)
Heat pumps will take energy away from those who need it the most: The poor, starving AI LLMs and Bitcoin miners. Have you no conscience?
I recently replaced my gas furnace (Score:2)
I asked the salesman about heat pumps, and he said they were a poor choice in my climate area.
I've read reports that some experimental or uncommon heat pumps work in cold climates, but they appear to not be widely available.
Even the manufacturer's website says that they are not recommended for my area.
Problem identified (Score:5, Insightful)
"Gas is around three times cheaper than electricity" That's your problem right there. United States should tax gas much more, so that using greener energy sources would be incentivized. Instead of burning gas and pumping carbon to atmosphere, green energy should be used.
Re: (Score:2)
Increasing energy costs by taxes is not going to happen in the US. Any politician who suggested such a thing would soon be unemployed. Besides much of that gas is used to generate electricity. Heat pumps may be more climate efficient than gas heat, but you also have to include the costs of creating the electricity. Overall, I am not sure that you would find any real improvement.
Re: (Score:2)
Here in Califtopia, gas is far far more reliable than electricity.
Re: (Score:2)
the real solutions are passive and active solar, R60 insulation, battery, mass and solar walls, communities developed around solar orientation, reverse smart meters, shallow geothermal, earth banked, green roofed, with grey water systems. Mostly we need to develop non-classist integrated communities that don't involve commuting in the first place. And stop letting rich and powerful developers corrupt our governments and stop letting them build unsustainable crap solely for their windfall profits.
just sayin
Re: Problem identified (Score:2)
Yeah all that will totally help reduce emissions from existing housing stock. Or not.
Re:Problem identified (Score:4, Insightful)
Gas is cheaper than electricity because it's more efficient! Combined cycle gas (the source of electricity in most places) only gets about 60% efficiency. With transmission losses and such, lets make it 50% to keep the math easy. A heat pump with a CoP of 2 would produce exactly the same amount of carbon as a gas furnace. A heat pump that has a CoP of 4 would, in theory, use half as much gas. But that's only if it's never necessary to resort to resistive heating strips. It doesn't take having the emergency heat kick on very often for heat pumps to be at similar overall efficiency to a gas furnace. And, all most the most massive and expensive heat pumps don't produce as comfortable of a climate.
It's this type of thinking that makes many (most) people wary of "climate-friendly" policies. You are proposing a tax that forces people to use something that's (a) more expensive, (b) less efficient, and (c) lower quality for not net environmental benefit. That's hardly a solution. Where heat pumps are efficient and effective (areas in the southern half of the United States), they are already widely adopted.
Taxation in the name of greenwash. Makes me shake my head.
Re: (Score:2)
The nordic countries are leading in heat pump installations. Are they doing something wrong? [1]https://www.euronews.com/green... [euronews.com]
[1] https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/10/30/do-heat-pumps-work-in-winter-experts-explain-why-nordic-countries-have-installed-the-most-
Re: (Score:2)
Add to it that 15 year old heating systems in the Nordic countries are more or less just considered to be broken in.
Re: (Score:2)
The main benefit is going all-electric. If you eliminate your gas bill and add solar you can come out ahead if your totalized electric rate is over about $0.12/kWh, $0.10 if you are on propane.
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To be fair I would imagine most places are on a mixed grid today, coal and gas are currently less that 60% of the national grid. We have to also take into account the fact that grid is only going to get cleaner over a heat pumps 10-20 year lifespan.
Also with regards to emergency strips as my AC unit recently breathed it's last breath I have been quoting and seraching for heat pump units to swap in my home. Even the cheapest of units operate to 10F which I would say at least half of the nation never experi
Re: (Score:2)
all due to entrenched upper class interests, this is the inevitable result of classism
greed and irresponsibility will be our undoing once again
Re: (Score:2)
We don't even have to tax it more, we can just stop giving those industries free stuff. Though of course we should have carbon taxes on industry, we should have started them already so that we could start them very small but it's kind of late to be fooling around now. The so-called and alleged invisible hand isn't going to correct anything unless it's motivated. Private industry can solve these problems but will not unless forced.
Re: Problem identified (Score:2)
Our peak electrical energy generation is from gas. While we enjoy cheap hydroelectric base load supplies, those are often used at capacity. Additional energy is produced with gas turbines. Higher taxes on gas will result in higher electricity prices. Much higher. While this will make our local private utility very happy (they supply both electricity and gas), the customers (voters) won't like it. And since an increasing number of these customers live in congregate housing (apartments and condos) it's not a