Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted (phoronix.com)
- Reference: 0175311463
- News link: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/10/23/2035248/linus-torvalds-comments-on-the-russian-linux-maintainers-being-delisted
- Source link: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Russian-Linux-Maintainers-Drop
> Quietly merged into this week's Linux 6.12-rc4 kernel was a patch that [2]removes a number of kernel maintainers from being noted in the official MAINTAINERS file that recognizes all of the driver and subsystem maintainers. [...] [Greg Kroah-Hartman who authored the patch] simply [3]commented in there: "Remove some entries due to various compliance requirements. They can come back in the future if sufficient documentation is provided." [...] The commonality of all these maintainers being dropped? They appear to all be Russian or associated with Russia. Most of them with .ru email addresses.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds has since [4]commented on the situation :
> Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about. It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything. And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.
>
> If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news," I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam. As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.
[1] https://slashdot.org/~szo
[2] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Russian-Linux-Maintainers-Drop
[3] https://lore.kernel.org/all/2024101835-tiptop-blip-09ed@gregkh/
[4] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs
For their protection too. (Score:3)
This isn't just for the protection of the world but it's also to protect the maintainers from government "influence" as well. I know that not all Russians support their government's actions so potentially putting them in the position of becoming pawn for said government is unethical. However, if they do support their government's actions then they may be tempted to to be a willing agent for said government. In both cases, it's best to not put them in a potentially compromising position.
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I do kinda feel for russians who arent happy about this. Early in the invasion there was a lot of , particularly millenial and gen z russians who seemed genuinely distressed about it, but where freaked out by the prospect of protesting. At least one told me they knew a guy who was organizing protests and just disappeared one day. She hoped he was just laying low, but didnt know.
This is why rather than funding ukranian armaments, something I'm pretty uncomfortable with (not opposed, just uncomfortable) I put
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There are places that you can donate that purchase equipment other than weapons, including humanitarian supplies. Be careful about where your money goes, as there are also some fraudulent groups out there. But lots of groups are doing good work that doesn't involve weapons.
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I don't quite understand why this has gotten more "noise" when after the attack last October they pretty much did the same for any code pushed or reverts from Palestinians although they made the same exceptions for unblocking with "sufficient documentation provided" as was also stated in this article. There was zero posts on Slashdot about that when it happened, although there was one on news.ycombinator that had some people upset and making a lot of the same arguments that people now are making in support
Laws in question (Score:5, Informative)
Here is what Linus had to say about which country made sanctions:
> I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers. I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people
That's it. But he definitely made his opinion clear on the "Russian aggression."
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Well he should remove all the us maintainers as well. everyone in the middle east to.
Re:Laws in question (Score:4, Insightful)
> Any able-bodied Russians (of either sex) who aren't actively working to depose or assassinate Putin are basically complicit in everything that's happening, .
Says spineless coward living in his moms basement in a nice safe country where he knows he'll never be put in such a position. You're a prick.
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You're right, but what about Israelis? What about Americans, since America is funding Israel? Because Netanyahu is not interested in civility, and we are funding him knowing that, and IMO also counting on it.
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> Any able-bodied Russians (of either sex) who aren't actively working to depose or assassinate Putin are basically complicit in everything that's happening
You seem confident that once you will get rid of Putin, he will be replaced by a nicer power. Do you have a some knowledge about Russian politics that support that?
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> You seem confident that once you will get rid of Putin, he will be replaced by a nicer power. Do you have a some knowledge about Russian politics that support that?
We have seen kinder, gentler Russians in the past, so there is at least a chance.
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> But he definitely made his opinion clear on the "Russian aggression."
scare quotes. A way to make clear your position that it's FAKE NEWS, while maintaining deniability.
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"Russian aggression" is clearly a euphemism, used by Linus. Russia denies it's a war, so you can't call it that, but it's a war.
> A way to make clear your position that it's FAKE NEWS, while maintaining deniability.
So why did Linus use a euphemism? Does using it make his position clear?
Re: Laws in question (Score:2)
It is not a euphemism. The longer expression would be the Russian war of aggression. But simply Russian aggression puts the blame squarely on Russia as the aggressor. The war or the aggression has been going on since 2014.
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> The longer expression would be the Russian war of aggression.
How do you know that's what Linus was thinking?
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Let me see if I have my facts straight. According to Russia, they invaded Ukraine because the country had a nazi problem. The same country who elected a jewish president. Or is a police action like Vietnam?
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Those were Torvalds' words, not @phantomfive's words. That's why they were in quotes!
Anyone and everyone (Score:2, Funny)
We should remove anyone and everyone who is a citizen of a nation actively involved in military activities on foreign soil as recognized by the UN
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Exactly who would that leave? I think you would run out of bodies pretty quickly.
Re: Anyone and everyone (Score:1)
Canada here, we are part of some coaliations and do a lot of peacekeeping via the U.N. I'm not sure how we would be classified.
Just remember we go from I'm sorry to you're sorry when war is declared...
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> actively involved in military activities on foreign soil as recognized by the UN
Of course, Russia agrees completely. As a member of the security council, the UN will never recognize them as such.
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> We should remove anyone and everyone who is a citizen of a nation actively involved in military activities on foreign soil as recognized by the UN
Not sure how cute you're trying to be. Ie, are you include the US and other western (often NATO) aligned nations that conduct military operations at various times. Or are you just trying to implicate Israel.
If you were just trying to draw a circle around Russia, Israel, and a few smaller nations involved in conflicts, then you left out a fairly important qualifier, ie, "nation actively involved in military activities on foreign soil with the express purpose of conquering their territory ".
Of course, the prob
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> With Russia it's basically just "oh, we want to be an empire again and so we'll conquer one of our neighbours and just annex and/or puppet all their territory".
That is correct, except the word "again" even before the adventures into Georgian and Ukraine they were already an empire. Many of the provinces in "russia proper" are places with a subjucated local population ruled by russians.
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Assuming I even agreed, why would the UN be considered a trustworthy body for this? Right now, at this moment on the [1]UN Human Rights Council [wikipedia.org] are China, Cuba, and at least a few other places with "questionable" practices.
The UN is a dictator's club. Democratic (or even close-ish) countries should separate from it. They have nothing resembling ethics or morals by any standard I would recognize. It's a farce, and while good people work there for some good purposes, it offers a veneer of legitimacy to man
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council
What if he had said "no" (Score:1)
How quickly would Linux have been seized?
Finland historically had an strong economic relationship with Russia. That's all been trashed by NATO expansion. Critical OSS software could do someting against the neo-liberal defense state. History didn't start in Feb-2022. I'm neither pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine. I'm critical of the US Defense world-view and its incarnation as NATO.
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> I'm critical of the US Defense world-view and its incarnation as NATO.
What is the US Defense world-view?
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> History didn't start in Feb-2022.
[1]True [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion
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Uh... Finland historically had a few wars with Russia, you know. Most famously, the [1]Winter War [wikipedia.org].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
Re: What if he had said "no" (Score:3)
Thanks for the link. Holy crap, this is so very similar to the Ukraine invasion.
Just wanted to conquer adjacent territory for economic and military purposes. Check.
Blame bogus security reasons for invasion. Check.
Install fake puppet government (eg DPR) in pathetic attempt for legitimacy. Check.
Soviet..err Russia losses are heavy against far smaller, nominally weaker opponent. Check.
And Russia ended up with 9% of Finlandâ(TM)s territory afterwards. Donbas is 9% of Ukraineâ¦tbd
According t
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Might find reading about Simo HÃyhà a fun thing to do when you have a few minutes to spare...
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Sometimes it is impossible to distinguish between useful idiots and fellow travelers.
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> How quickly would Linux have been seized?
> Finland historically had an strong economic relationship with Russia. That's all been trashed by NATO expansion. Critical OSS software could do someting against the neo-liberal defense state. History didn't start in Feb-2022. I'm neither pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine. I'm critical of the US Defense world-view and its incarnation as NATO.
Greetings fellow lead paint chip enthusiast.
NATO expansion my ass (Score:2)
If countries want to join a defense pact there's absolutely no reason why. Russia could join the NATO defense pact if they wanted to they would just have to demonstrate that they are a functional democracy and meet the requirements.
It's 2024 the Cold war is long over and NATO isn't about containing Russia anymore. Russia is long since contained. NATO is about stopping the spread of war especially in a world that has nuclear weapons. Russia on the other hand and specifically Vladimir Putin wants to reli
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> It's 2024 the Cold war is long over and NATO isn't about containing Russia anymore. Russia is long since contained. NATO is about stopping the spread of war especially in a world that has nuclear weapons.
So it's about containing Russia, then?
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You should be embarrassed that you just trashed whatever reputation your account had on such stupid and ineffective Russian propaganda.
The root cause (Score:2)
Anyone disappointed by this should direct their indignation at Putin.
It is telling that someone else is supposed to be blamed.
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But when everyone else war mongers it's okay.
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It's time for you to stop typing^H^H^H^H^H^H performing oxidative phosphorylation.
The Winter War? (Score:1)
Seriously, the decision is being based on The Winter War from 85 years ago? If there are fake contributers, remove them. If you are removing real Russian contributors to the kernel *because* they are Russian, where does that end? Please remove Israeli contributors, German contributors, American contributors, Ukrainian contributors, South African contributors, and many others as well.
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The contributors are being removed most likely for the Linux Foundation to comply with US sanctions against Russia. It has nothing to do with the Winter War, except for the parallel between that war and the war against Ukraine: The unprovoked invasion of a neighbur followed by Russian failure to conquer the country and subsequent reduction of Russian war aims.
Only difference is the unprovoked Russian war against Ukraine is lasting much longer and is much more brutal with far more casualties.
The war pales in comparison to what the occupation (Score:3)
Would look like. Russia does not have the resources needed to occupy Ukraine. That means they're only option to take the land, and it's the land they want, is genocide.
Best case scenario they are going to ship everybody in Ukraine to parts of Russia or one of their satellite countries. Worst case we are looking at death camps. Honestly moving that many people is probably going to result in death camps no matter what.
The people of Ukraine, all of the people of Ukraine, are fighting for their lives no
in the name of equity (Score:1)
for every rejected request to merge from russkies, Linus should accept 10 merge requests from The Ukrainians.
Heroyam slavayim.
Brain drain (Score:4, Interesting)
As long as they are in Russia, physically, they are a liability. I know this sounds cold but think of the situation. You are Russian citizen, and you really hate Putin. You don't dare say it out loud but it's in your heart. You continue on as more or less as if he never existed. But then you get that knock on the door and you have orders to put back backdoors into the the software your global team is working on. At that point it's a wrap. You must comply, or face serious physical consequences which won't be as easy or merciful as a quick bullet in the head. Anyone physically in Russia can be conscripted to do these things at any time, and they won't even be able to warn the rest of the team. Putin's goons are watching and they better not do anything to raise suspicion in that team.
Based on law or based on Russian aggression? (Score:2)
He states both, and tacking on his personal views diminishes what is presented ostensibly as a decision made "clearly" due to law. The unnecessary remark fuels skepticism.
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If everything in project 2025 is passed AND the US invaded Canada (maybe even if Mexico is invaded).
Probably sanctions for invading Canada project 2025 or not.
But the sanctions aren't about Russia's government they're about the invasion of a friendly nation.
The US will eventualy invade Canada & Mexico (Score:5, Informative)
if/when we turn into a dictatorship. That's just what failing empires do. When the country starts to collapse you send your army to loot other countries in order to prop it up. It buys you a few decades.
Project 2025 has a *lot* in it. It won't all pass at once. The important/scary part is "Schedule F" where every government employee (including army generals) gets replaced with sycophants.
From there it's a hop, skip & jump to massive voter suppression and a super majority in Congress, and then finally a Constitutional Convention.
That Bible printed in China has a copy of the US Constitution in it... missing amendments 11-17. So we know which ones they're going to memory hole.
But hey, "It Can't Happen Here", amiright?
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You will never get a Constitutional Convention. You need a super majority of the states, not government to open that up. It will never happen.
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> You will never get a Constitutional Convention. You need a super majority of the states, not government to open that up. It will never happen.
They will beg, buy, borrow, steal, defraud, cheat, and murder to make it happen.
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2020 election.
They came within a hairs breath (Score:2)
of calling one through the state legislature. Betcha didn't know that.
The Koch brothers spent decades buying state legislature seats for exactly that purpose and almost had the votes. It literally came down to two elections that went to the Democrats in huge upsets. After that the window closed.
That's why they're trying to do it again but from the top down instead of bottom up this time.
Folks don't realize how fragile our democracy is right now. Or if they do they're doing everything in their po
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Trump is a lazy narcissist who is well-known to do basically whatever the last person to talk to him before a decision said to him. He's not going to fight Project 2025, but he will absolutely allow Schedule F to go into place because it means more people bowing to him. Schedule F means that the people below him who suck up to him will pick the people below them, and they'll be the people who want Project 2025 to happen. He won't care, because it won't affect him directly, and all the people putting it into