Microsoft Exec Tells Staff There Won't Be an Amazon-style Return-to-Office Mandate Unless Productivity Drops (yahoo.com)
- Reference: 0175173749
- News link: https://slashdot.org/story/24/10/01/191203/microsoft-exec-tells-staff-there-wont-be-an-amazon-style-return-to-office-mandate-unless-productivity-drops
- Source link: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-exec-tells-staff-won-130313049.html
> The software and cloud-computing giant currently allows employees to work remotely, with many new hires promised the flexibility of working from home at least half the week. But that isn't written in stone. According to two anonymous sources that spoke with Business Insider, executive vice president Scott Guthrie recently told staff at his Microsoft's Cloud and AI group, which includes Azure, that a policy change isn't on the cards at present -- so long as workers stay productive.
>
> While no statement has been provided as of press time, Microsoft told Business Insiderthat the company's work policies have not changed. Amazon CEO Andy Jassy's [2]bombshell decree has [3]roiled tech employees across the sector, many of whom dread a return to hours wasted in traffic jams on the long daily commute.
[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-exec-tells-staff-won-130313049.html
[2] https://slashdot.org/story/24/09/16/1845223/amazon-ceo-tells-employees-to-return-to-office-five-days-a-week
[3] https://slashdot.org/story/24/09/25/1941205/amazon-employees-plead-for-reversal-of-5-day-rto-mandate-in-anonymous-survey
Smart man (Score:3)
"Unless productivity drops" - so workers will now fear for their remote work, and push themselves harder to keep productivity up. Now he can gain a bump in productivity which may help improve the next quarter or two, and *then* dump the return-to-office mandate on everyone. This guy knows how to executive.
Re: (Score:2)
> "Unless productivity drops" - so workers will now fear for their remote work, and push themselves harder to keep productivity up. Now he can gain a bump in productivity which may help improve the next quarter or two, and *then* dump the return-to-office mandate on everyone. This guy knows how to executive.
It is called "carrot & stick" motivation management; a variation of "manage by objective" or MBO. Tell people what you expect of them. And tell them what will happen if they don't achieve it.
The /. slacker / whiny mob would simply call it a different version of "The beatings will continue until morale improves." /s
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure you can call it "carrot & stick" if the "carrot" consists entirely of "we won't apply the stick".
Snappy Answers to Smart Men. (Score:2)
> "Unless productivity drops" - so workers will now fear for their remote work, and push themselves harder to keep productivity up. Now he can gain a bump in productivity which may help improve the next quarter or two, and *then* dump the return-to-office mandate on everyone. This guy knows how to executive.
(The Executing Executive) ”The fuck do you mean our best workers quit?! Dammit, we have deadlines!”
(HR) ”Well..the competition is still fully supporting WFH..”
What is this?! (Score:2)
Are they suggesting the Amazon back to work BS isn't about productivity, culture, and "working together"? Shocked I tell you. Shocked. As you know at Amazon they have a bar raiser. They only hire people that are good enough to raise the baseline. (AKA dealing themselves out of high worker liquidity) - part of that important culture of constantly having a start-up mentality and raising the bar is doing shitty 70s management style things like insist against all data (due to ulterior motives and stupid over
Confirmed. Productivity is the same as before. (Score:2)
[1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/d... [forbes.com]
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2024/10/01/microsoft-issues-new-windows-11-blue-screen-warning-for-all-users/
I Interviewed at Amazon (Score:3)
10 years ago, I interviewed with Amazon in Toronto. They had a bunch of floors high up in an expensive tower overlooking Lake Ontario. When I entered they gave me a little gift bag with a notepad and pen, some breath mints (honestly), and a bottle of water. I interviewed with with 3 different groups. 2 came into the room, the other came in remotely on the big-screen. (A little ironic in this context, but not really). At the time, there was lots of talk about the great salaries at Amazon. During my process, I learned a bunch of that awesomeness came in the form of benefits, so it's wasn't quite as amazing as I had hoped. Some colleagues who worked there also told me they put in a lot of hours and worked very hard. In the end, I took a position elsewhere.
Today, the word on the street is that the salaries are awesome only if you're a superstar, but the hours are still long and a lot of hard work is still expected no matter who you are. And now they're doing the Return To Office silliness.
I've come to three conclusions:
- working at Amazon isn't the awesome thing it used to be
- they're confusing "on-site" with "productive"
- Microsoft is probably receiving applications today from Amazonians looking to bail
Amazon is regarded as a shitty employer (Score:3)
> 10 years ago, I interviewed with Amazon in Toronto. They had a bunch of floors high up in an expensive tower overlooking Lake Ontario. When I entered they gave me a little gift bag with a notepad and pen, some breath mints (honestly), and a bottle of water. I interviewed with with 3 different groups. 2 came into the room, the other came in remotely on the big-screen. (A little ironic in this context, but not really). At the time, there was lots of talk about the great salaries at Amazon. During my process, I learned a bunch of that awesomeness came in the form of benefits, so it's wasn't quite as amazing as I had hoped. Some colleagues who worked there also told me they put in a lot of hours and worked very hard. In the end, I took a position elsewhere.
> Today, the word on the street is that the salaries are awesome only if you're a superstar, but the hours are still long and a lot of hard work is still expected no matter who you are. And now they're doing the Return To Office silliness.
> I've come to three conclusions: - working at Amazon isn't the awesome thing it used to be - they're confusing "on-site" with "productive" - Microsoft is probably receiving applications today from Amazonians looking to bail
Can confirm. I interviewed and thought they were a total shitshow...they were offended when I didn't want to go in for a follow-up...sorry...someone else made a better impression on the interview, has a better reputation, and is offering me 25% more pay...so...kindly kick rocks.
I have a few friends who went there and said it's not as bad as everyone says....so...not sure what to believe. They don't "seem" happy...but can't tell if that's because they're working at Amazon or merely getting older...age mak
Waiting for next week's headline: (Score:4, Insightful)
Next weeks headline: "Microsoft management determines productivity has dropped, announces return-to-office mandate."
Re: (Score:2)
beat me to it.
Market dynamics at work! (Score:1)
> Next weeks headline: "Microsoft management determines productivity has dropped, announces return-to-office mandate."
This is positive, IMHO. Amazon NEEDS people in an office?...that's their right....and an opportunity for MS and everyone else to offer a more compelling work environment and snag all the workers who thought being in an office was insufferable.
Also, not sure you want to bitch about this. Working from home is a privilege, not a right. The social contract is you do just as good of a job or better from anywhere and your employer gives you more freedom. You fail to live up on your end of the bargain, no o
Re: (Score:3)
> Working from home is a privilege, not a right.
Unless I was hired, as the summary indicates, under the agreement that it would be 50% wfh. And this is the "meat" of my complaint with this mandatory-return-to-office crap. If I had taken a job where the agreement was that I didn't have to drive in half of the time I might be willing to expand the distance I'd be willing to commute. Meaning I likely wouldn't have taken that particular job had wfh not been an option. Now I'm stuck with a shitty commute every day because some middle-manager decided we're
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft's policy is 50% WFH the position has to allow it, and your manager has to approve it. This seems like a reasonable approach and gives employees a good work life balance and gives the company the resources they may need in-office.
Re: (Score:2)
Can't disagree with that. I'm on a 3 and 2 office/home, and it seems like a reasonable compromise. Snark of my original comment aside, I'd rather be at the office. But I tend to be a social person, and I appreciate the delineation between "work time" and "home time". If I didn't have a crap commute, I'd have absolutely zero problem with 100% work from office.
Re: (Score:2)
> Equally annoying when people carry water for corporations with continuous shitty behavior.
Okay but, I would disagree that return to office is a shitty behavior. They have lots of shitty behaviors. That's not the one I'd pick out.
Flat out people will work other jobs from home if they can make themselves look busy enough or it's hard to measure productivity.
I've known people personally on WFH jobs that will literally sleep but great at waking up and faking being busy if called and other things like that.
I don't think it's equally as annoying for corporate shitty behaviors in this particular case.
Re: (Score:2)
> Be mad at that the people abusing WFH, ruining it for those who can handle it.
I'm good at multi-tasking. I can be mad at both groups, the idiots that treat wfh as a good day to get their laundry done (or worse, as you described) AND shitty companies changing a work agreement because they weren't able to squeeze enough blood out of the turnip last quarter, simultaneously.
Re: (Score:2)
> the idiots that treat wfh as a good day to get their laundry done
I'm self-employed. If I know I have a full day at home, I'll wash all the laundry. Because it's just moving stuff into one machine and another every hour or so. Folding and putting away is for after hours. But it actually increases my productivity to be forced to get up and walk around regularly and also to have one less thing on my mind.
Re: (Score:2)
I would agree with you on the walking around increasing productivity, that's one of the things I struggle with when at home. Too easy to take an "Internet Brain Break" instead of taking a walk. How about "the idiots that treat wfh as a good day to sit on Slashdot all day."? (kidding of course. Already got enough people riled up with this thread.) But you get the point I'm making? There are absolutely people that have taken advantage of working from home by just flat-out not doing their job. My argument i
Re: (Score:2)
For sure, but sefl-employed puts you at the top of the food chain right? That's not a low-mid position with no risk. You're taking all the risk and you're in charge of your contract rates, and being paid. You set your hours and terms and do what's needed to be successful. You answer to yourself, and decide what's good for your business.
Higher level positions are similar, and we do the same thing, it 's not an impact to productivity to make a coffee at home, swap laundry over, that kind of thing. That's not
Re: (Score:2)
I can understand the frustration about changing the work agreement, I look at it differently so it doesn't bother me so much.
I can be replaced easily under most situations. If it's convenient and a better deal for a company, I will likely be let go, for various made up reasons if necessary if they can't make me quit. They'll do what's good for the business, even if I've been a hard worker and contributed a lot for a long time, for 20-40 years etc.
With that in mind, the company I work for, is absolutely some
It's a chance for everyone else to snag talent (Score:2)
> If I had taken a job where the agreement was that I didn't have to drive in half of the time I might be willing to expand the distance I'd be willing to commute. Meaning I likely wouldn't have taken that particular job had wfh not been an option.
Still not a right, as stated in the summary. However, don't take my word for it...you either have legal case, or you don't. If there's a signed contract, I am sure a lawyer can get you a nice settlement in accordance with the laws of your country. However, I have never heard of an employer agreeing to do so in a legally binding manner, for good reason. Also, Amazon didn't hire these people as remote employees. They hired nearly all of them to come into the office and then a global pandemic hit. Micro
Re: (Score:2)
> Again, I am neither a lawyer nor a judge, but we do have a legal system in place to handle scenarios where MS violates a contract.
I'm not talking about the legal contract. I'm talking about the social one. If I was hired at 50%, that's the social contract. If they decide that "contract" no longer applies because some arbitrary benchmark wasn't met, and they want my ass in a cubicle? That's entirely their prerogative, as it's their company. That doesn't mean it's not shitty behavior. And that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically bow down, kiss the ring, and thank them for allowing me to continue to work there.
> You were cynically stating that they'd do shitty behavior in the future
Forgive me for assuming
Re: (Score:2)
"Productivity" is subjective.
No it's not. If you're given five tickets to complete and at the end of the week none of them have been touched, what were you doing? Or, if you were given some code to write and three weeks later you're just starting on it, what were you doing?
Productivity is not subjective when you're given specific tasks to complete. This applies to any job.
Equally annoying when people carry water for corporations with continuous shitty behavior.
So every corporation? B
Re: (Score:2)
> Productivity is not subjective when you're given specific tasks to complete. This applies to any job.
Any job? Are ya sure about that? If you have a job stamping out widgets, absolutely it's not subjective. If you're "stamping out" tickets? It can get a lot more subjective, depending. If my job was to reset user passwords, and other "level 1" kinds of tasks? Yeah, easy enough to quantify with a fair bit of confidence. If my job was more of a "level 2" or "level 3" type of environment? Some weeks I'll close a dozen tickets, some weeks I'll close 2. What week was I more productive? Well, as my boss, do you
Re: (Score:2)
It's a job, not adult day care. It's honestly annoying to hear people whine with such a sense of entitlement.
Actually, it's difficult to make the case that it's a job when you're treating your employees like children. If you can't trust your employees to actually get work done without being in the office (for professional positions, of course), might I suggest hiring adults ?
If these large companies could hire professionals, they'd know that RTO mandates are pretty much useless because if a professio
Re: (Score:2)
> ..Also, not sure you want to bitch about this. Working from home is a privilege, not a right.
Oh really? Tell me more about that whole “privilege” of putting a few million tailpipes back on the roadways every day is. I’m sure the environmentalists screaming about our poisoned planet have a few things to say about those social constructs and the future.
Also, employers might not want to bitch. A 1-hour commute (average with traffic), equates to an entire 40-hour workweek wasted every month commuting to an office building. Not to mention sucking tailpipe fumes the whole time your
Re: (Score:2)
> Next weeks headline: "Microsoft management determines productivity has dropped, announces return-to-office mandate."
This. The influential power of the middle-earth management cube farmer, cannot be ignored.
Many of the elder farmers retired with COVID. But as the return to office slowly happened for most they were replaced with a different breed of managementae, belonging to the sub-species of mega-ego-strokers.
The good news is cube farm walls will be 2 feet shorter, but will come in limited edition baby-shit-seafoam green and anti-gun grey. Furniture orders will drop at midnight, open for 3 minutes via Ticketmaster.
Re: Waiting for next week's headline: (Score:2)
The weird thing is Microsoft is one of the more remote-friendly tech companies. How did that happen?
Re: (Score:2)
They haven't "caught up" to the others yet?