House Committee Approves Bill Requiring New Cars To Have AM Radio (theverge.com)
- Reference: 0175031649
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/09/18/205250/house-committee-approves-bill-requiring-new-cars-to-have-am-radio
- Source link: https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24248137/am-radio-bill-house-energy-commerce-ev-interference
> The bill passed the committee on a roll-call vote of 45-2 and now heads to the full House for final approval. The bill, titled the AM for Every Vehicle Act, would direct the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to issue a rule that "requires automakers to maintain AM broadcast radio in their vehicles without a separate or additional payment, fee, or surcharge." Supporters say they are pushing the bill out of a concern that the slow demise of AM radio could make it more difficult to broadcast emergency information during a natural disaster or other related events. Conservatives are also worried about losing a lucrative platform for right-wing news and media. [...]
>
> Automakers generally see AM radio as an obsolete technology, arguing that there are other, better technologies, such as internet streaming, HD radio delivered on FM bands, or some apps that provide AM content that will make up for the absence of AM radio in vehicles. Critics say the bill could also add to the costs of producing EVs at a time when many manufacturers are struggling to rein in their costs. "With a new mandate, [EV companies] will have to go through a significant powertrain redesign, vehicle redesign," Albert Gore, executive director of the Zero Emission Transportation Association, said in an interview earlier this year, "because of the degree to which electric motor generates this [electromagnetic] interference."
[1] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/05/02/015209/am-radio-law-opposed-by-tech-and-auto-industries-is-close-to-passing
[2] https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24248137/am-radio-bill-house-energy-commerce-ev-interference
We have a housing crisis, so... (Score:2)
Let's force AM radio into new cars.
Re: (Score:1)
Right on man, the thing keeping most people from being able to afford a new home is if they buy a new car and the radio works.
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Irrelevant much?
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If there is a housing crisis some people will sleep in their cars
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OK, how about we allow AM to die, but we force other radio communication protocols to always work, never be encrypted, never be proprietary, have long range, work well cross many weather conditions, and work in both city and rural areas regardless of profitability
I know how to make an AM receiver, which many learned as a kid, but making an FM receiver is a lot harder, and making a receiver that can handle cellular phone audio or data from scratch is not in the realm of most people.
Radio?? (Score:4, Interesting)
At least one car I've bought had *NO* radio. (Optional extra, stock was a blank space in the dash).
So does the new regulation mean cars must come with a radio?
Re: (Score:1)
> At least one car I've bought had *NO* radio. (Optional extra, stock was a blank space in the dash). So does the new regulation mean cars must come with a radio?
You're asking if the bill that requires new cars to be equipped with a radio means that new cars must come with a radio?
Re: (Score:2)
The law could either say
(a) if a car comes with a radio, it must be capable of receiving the AM broadcast band; or
(b) all cars must now come with a radio capable of receiving the AM broadcast band, even if they had no radio at all before.
Re: (Score:2)
> (b) all cars must now come with a radio capable of receiving the AM broadcast band, even if they had no radio at all before.
The title and article literally says "new cars".
Re: (Score:1)
> The law could either say (a) if a car comes with a radio, it must be capable of receiving the AM broadcast band; or (b) all cars must now come with a radio capable of receiving the AM broadcast band, even if they had no radio at all before.
It doesn't matter what the law could say, it matters what it does say, which you could find out by, y'know, looking it up instead of uselessly wondering in a comment box.
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This. They shouldn't require AM unless there's also another radio present, including FM/DAB/GPS/SXM/WiFi/OnStar, etc.
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> At least one car I've bought had *NO* radio. (Optional extra, stock was a blank space in the dash).
> So does the new regulation mean cars must come with a radio?
If we know auto makers, this will mean your $50,000 car will come with a shitty $10 handheld AM radio reflected as a “government mandated” $799 surcharge.
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I kinda wonder how much this costs. This could be designed as an extra auxiliary. In order to get some reasonable isolation, it needs a power supply, a tuner chip and an antenna. Maybe $1-1½ plus however long the wire you need to get out to whatever is a EMI-free location. I think this is a rounding error on a vehicle that has a $20K BOM.
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there's SO much noise in a modern car, am is just too low a freq and too easily interfered with.
sure, you can listen to birdies. you like birdies?
cause this is how you get birdies.
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The plain reading of the bill says YES. The bill calls for a rule "requiring devices that can receive signals and play content transmitted by AM broadcast stations be installed as standard equipment in passenger motor vehicles"
There is a small short term exclusion for manufacturers that manufactured "not more than 40,000 passenger motor vehicles for sale in the United States in 2022."
So, yes, all cars will need to have some way for the driver to easily receive an AM broadcast. It does not go into the qual
AM radio (Score:4, Informative)
Not surprised. AM is all Christian and conservative radio where I am. Free market, of course.
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Your brain must be cleansed, heathen!
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All broadcast radio stations are required to broadcast emergency information if needed, and AM stations can cover a wide area with little transmit power.
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It's also got lots of sports; more sports than Christian radio even in some Bible belt areas.
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Feels like I'll be paying a couple hundred more dollars for the car. I don't believe for a second that the manufacturer will absorb the cost of the radio (or anything else).
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You mean the $0.75 part they'll mark up to $200?
Now all I need... (Score:2)
is something to hold the buggy whip.
Emergency? (Score:3)
I would think if the sole concern was emergency communications a weather radio would be more useful.
Re: (Score:1)
We have cell phone alerts that take care of that and we can look up WX instantly on the Internet.
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Until all the cell towers are out of commission and there's no internet available anywhere, that is.
Some of you have lack of foresight and/or have a 'it's never happened to me therefore it can't happen' mindset.
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Normalcy bias is the bane of Disaster Preparedness.
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So 12 hours after a power cut and all the cell tower batteries are flat.... They can't put a generator at each tower.
AM radio can broadcast hundreds of miles
It is (Score:1)
This mostly about talk radio which is almost entirely on AM. Specifically right wing talk radio which is virtually all talk radio now except for a few slightly apolitical shows and on a good day NPR.
I do wonder what the Christian radio shows are going to do in 10 years when the country is done secularizing. Church and religion in America has become 110% political and it's chasing away anyone under the age of 65. I wonder if they will just cram it full of more guys like Rush Limbaugh and Alex Jones or if
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You just happen to keep one in your car and check its battery status regularly? People have been knownnyo get stranded in their cars during severe weather events. This ensures people would have access to emergency broadcast in an emergency so long as the car battery holds out.
Not entirely legal (Score:2)
You're forcing a business to make a product a certain way that isn't actually related to safety (witness every vehicle that was sold without a radio of any kind) and I believe there is a court ruling or specific law that bars this explicit behavior from the government.
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> You're forcing a business to make a product a certain way that isn't actually related to safety (witness every vehicle that was sold without a radio of any kind) and I believe there is a court ruling or specific law that bars this explicit behavior from the government.
These are the same people who have passed laws saying companies will be fined if they refuse to do business with a certain country.
Re: (Score:2)
just tell the house members that by installing AM radio, a certain chip is used and that triggers the G5 (you know, from that vaccine).
you dont want that.
vote against this bill.
think of the children!
(actually, many of them have gotten in trouble for just that)
Re: (Score:2)
> You're forcing a business to make a product a certain way that isn't actually related to safety (witness every vehicle that was sold without a radio of any kind) and I believe there is a court ruling or specific law that bars this explicit behavior from the government.
In the case of an emergency, AM broadcast is the most effective way of reaching most people. While FM and TV exist, AM has a larger range than either.
Re: (Score:1)
I listen to nothing but AM in the car. Two reasons: Firstly, as soon as I'm out of built-up areas and into the countryside, FM just disappears. Seems to a line-of-sight thing. Secondly, I prefer to listen to the National Programme (RNZ) when I'm driving long-distance, because it's interesting and has no advertising, and I can't stand commercial FM stations with their idiot DJs and incessant commercials.
In other words ... (Score:2)
> Automakers generally see AM radio as an obsolete technology, arguing that there are other, better technologies, such as internet streaming, HD radio delivered on FM bands, or some apps that provide AM content that will make up for the absence of AM radio in vehicles.
Automakers argue in favor of alternatives for which they can charge subscriptions ...
"Emergency" means stand-alone (Score:2)
> ... automakers to maintain AM broadcast radio ...
The point of AM radio is, it's simple technology. Using a PLL chip or software-based frequency filter, is great for getting precise demodulation (audio) but not the priority in an emergency. Putting the UI into another device, (think all-in-one touch-screen) is guaranteeing a point of failure. Government should be setting a level of simplicity. eg IC chips with less than 50 'components' and a mechanical UI (push-buttons).
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A complete superheterodyne AM receiver can and is done in one single IC nowadays. It's a matter of a couple extra dollars.
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Long gone are the days of pulling a whisker from your cat.
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you can install an am radio chip easily.
tell me how much it costs to rf shield all the wiring and ecu's in the car so that the am radio is not flooded with peaks and noise and birdies (as they're called).
the harness is not designed to be rf quiet. and the car harness is about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the car ('the more you know'...).
who's gonna pay for the redesign of all that?
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Back when we had points-and-condenser ignition systems, they were about as noisy EMI-wise as anything could be -- and many cars had nothing but an AM radio. I myself had a hand-me-down Pinto wagon and the factory radio was AM-only. Guess what? Never had a problem with noise in the reception. Guess what else? We can still do that.
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The issue with AM these days is that with more electronics in cars, the signal is being disrupted. With EVs, the presence of a very large battery makes receiving AM broadcasts harder. Automakers will have to spend money to engineer cars with better shielding so they can get AM signals. Or take the path of least resistance and just drop AM. Automakers have chosen the latter. Bear in mind, automakers are willing to spend money to get satellite radio into cars. Because they can make money off that.
Performance? (Score:2)
Does the Bill specify the performance and operating conditions?
If not the simple option is install AM so owners can listen to all the noise their car creates, especially in less well implemented EVs. Most cars it would be usable when stationary and any engine/motors not running. Even the worst implementation will work if parked under the transmitter. Even the best implementation will fail if too far from the transmitter.
So how are they going define what is acceptable? Maybe they could mandate the
Digital Radio Mondiale (Score:4, Interesting)
The whole western hemisphere, the USoA included, is supposed to transition to Digital Radio Mondiale in the not to distant future ( [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] )
Then, the will not be "AM Radio" and/or "FM Radio" anymore. Instead there will be only DRM Radion in the 600-1600Khz band and DRM Radio in the 80-108Mhz band.
Woudn't have been more forward looking to MANDATE (as they did) a DRM Radio in each vehicle, thereby kickstarting adoption AND solving the interference and fading problems that Plague AM Radio and are making automakers to remove them?
Well, we all know what the House-Critters think.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale
Re: (Score:2)
> Make everything more expensive and complicated!
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This post is not accurate.
No, DRM isn't even an adopted standard for AM and FM by the FCC in the US. The FCC adopted IBOC ("HD Radio") for digital AM and FM in the US. There is no wholesale transition in the works for this, either.
I don't know where you got this from. Your link mentions the US only once, and it's a specific reference to DRM for HF only, not AM or FM.
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> This post is not accurate.
> No, DRM isn't even an adopted standard for AM and FM by the FCC in the US. The FCC adopted IBOC ("HD Radio") for digital AM and FM in the US. There is no wholesale transition in the works for this, either.
> I don't know where you got this from. Your link mentions the US only once, and it's a specific reference to DRM for HF only, not AM or FM.
Even if this is true, the point stands. Why mandate analogue AM radio istead of the future Digital standard (and making the analog one optional), therefore jumpstarting both adopition and transition?
A horse and buggy whip for every EV. (Score:1)
We want to be fair. I haven't listened to AM radio for 35 years.
Good Plan (Score:1)
AM radio is necessary. So far the Internet has utterly failed to provide local communities with news, emergency services or anything else that resembles what we had fifty years ago. In the 1970s I could turn on a TV or radio and get local news broadcasts, emergency broadcasts and public interest programming several times a day.
We also had these things called newspapers and occupations called "reporter" and "news photographer."
Big Tech isn't interested in any of that. They have no interest at all in civic r
Re: Good Plan (Score:2)
Canâ(TM)t you just buy an AM radio if itâ(TM)s so necessary? Rather cheaper than an automobile.
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Pretty much what I was going to say. Shouldn't they mandate that every building has a portable AM radio as not every one has a car and if you car fails you can still carry your portable radio. The bill does seem strange in its logic.
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During hurricane Ivan there was massive flooding in the area, washed out roads, landslides, and power failures. I thought let's try the radio and see if anything useful is being broadcast. It was the same drivel as any other day. Not one tidbit about impassable roads or which areas didn't have power.
RF Noise (Score:2)
A problem with AM radio (maybe THE problem) is that it is at a low frequency and also amplitude modulated so it is very susceptible to interference from electrical noise coming from car computers and communications. It's difficult to screen the radio from all of this local interference without extensively shielding all of the wiring and computers in the car.
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AM radios have existed in cars for longer than most on this site have been alive. The problem has already been solved. And yes, computers in one form or another have existed in cars since the 80s, they used to be called ECMs.
Re: RF Noise (Score:1)
It's a real problem with EVs. AM is basically unusable the way it is now.
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I have an AM radio in my car. You pull up next to me in your EV, its systems had better be shielded. Whether you have an AM radio or not.
Obligatory Everclear (Score:2)
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjg39XRkjVc
Evidence based decision or "politicians know best" (Score:2)
Is this based on actual data, such as usage of AM radios in new cars today? Is there some telemetry data I missed? Have the polled the current generation or car buyers whether they even know what AM radio is, and if they would ever use it? If people don't know it's there or what it's for, it's not at all useful, even in case of an emergency.
Or was this just based on how many of the 47 members of the committee listen to AM radio themselves?
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The fact AM radio goes farther than FM and that there's a big chunk of this country where a lone public radio station on AM is the only local media probably has a lot to do with it. Granted, this affects like, 80 people, but still.
Portable radios? (Score:2)
If the point is to provide an alternative communications channel, one would think a portable radio would be a better choice -- Not everyone owns a vehicle.
5 Years of no AM Radio Access (Score:2)
I bought a 2019 Tesla Model 3. It's been 5 years and 39000 miles. Never in that time have I needed to tune into AM radio. In fact, I've only used the FM tuner when I was in an area where streaming didn't have sufficient network to access.
The local authorities can make my cell phone scream bloody murder for an Amber or Silver Alert. The US Government can make my cell phone scream for a Presidential Alert.
My phone will always be on me. So why do I need an ancient AM receiver in my car? Just make m
Yeah, shield that noisy electric motor (Score:2)
Yeah, shield that noisy electric motor and stop being lazy about FCC interference compliance, already!!
We were able to shield the noisy gasoline engine's spark plugs and the alternator for 130 years. What's the technical problem? A $0.25 piece of aluminum foil or a $0.10 ferrite coil?
AM radio is not going away and shouldn't.
Re: (Score:2)
> It's needed in an emergency.
That ... and trying getting the latest airport parking & terminal traffic/rules information from some crazy person's TikTok feed
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If it's such a critical feature, why hasn't it been mandated until now? Plenty of new cars before now have been sold without a radio.
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It's not about cars without ANY radio, it's about the manufacturers not wanting to pay the few bucks extra for the radio to have AM as well as FM.
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That is entirely irrelevant as to whether there is a safety concern. The car either does, or does not, have an AM radio. If not having an AM radio is a safety concern, it should have been mandated when cars were being sold without a radio.
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> That is entirely irrelevant as to whether there is a safety concern.
The safety concern is during an emergency like a hurricane, it is important that emergency broadcasts reach the most people. AM has longer range than FM or TV.
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Again, the point is that there was no problem before now with allowing cars to be sold without the radio altogether. Not including AM is the same, in the context of emergency broadcasts, as not including the radio entirely.
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> Again, the point is that there was no problem before now with allowing cars to be sold without the radio altogether. Not including AM is the same, in the context of emergency broadcasts, as not including the radio entirely.
You have asserted that as true. I have not seen any evidence that is generally true.
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> You have asserted that as true. I have not seen any evidence that is generally true.
Back in the day, you could buy a car without a radio. My first car, a 1980 Toyota Tercel, did not come with one. Pickup trucks used to be famous for not having a lot of frills, including radios.
I couldn't tell you when the last car in the US was sold without a radio. Probably in the late 80s or early 90s. I think it's a semi-valid point that we didn't seem to care enough about emergency transmissions to care at that time. Why is today different?
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For what it's worth, it appears to have been common among the base models for at least Hyundai and Nissan in the 2000's. But, like me, you're not providing actual evidence so they're going to just ignore it.
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> Again, the point is that there was no problem before now with allowing cars to be sold without the radio altogether. Not including AM is the same, in the context of emergency broadcasts, as not including the radio entirely.
Actually, it's not the same. Radios these days are intergraded into the vehicle in such a way that you cannot easily replace it. The radio in cars of the past, when you could get one without, were not part of the brains of the car, and could be left out or replaced with an aftermarket model with little to no effect on the operation of the vehicle. These days, you're lucky if you can replace a lightbulb without having to go into the dealer and having something reset or recalibrated, so your car will remai
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In terms of the government mandating their inclusion, at no additional cost to the consumer, it's the same. AM radio was not available, in those cars, without a separate purchase by the owner. This legislation wants to make the inclusion of AM radio at cost for the buyer. That would make those cars just as "unsafe". And yet, they didn't have a problem with that until now. I understand the technical aspect that would make it harder/impossible to replace an existing system with one that supports AM. It just
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There are cars without a radio? In the United States? When? What makes? Were many sold? I'm pretty sure I've never seen one.
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Problem with AM is it's susceptible to interference so installing the radio and antenna in a way that you can actually hear stuff on it is a larger challenge
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But OTOH AM radio waves can be received from over a thousand miles away, depending on conditions, which is way more than can be said about FM. In a car, all you'd need to do is turn the car off to reduce the interference.
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It's because the million switching power supplies, communications buses, and microprocessors in cars all cause interference on AM.
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> If it's such a critical feature, why hasn't it been mandated until now? Plenty of new cars before now have been sold without a radio.
Like when? Every new car I have seen have had them as standard in the US for as long as I remember. Tape and CDs were considered optional upgrades.
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Right now, I can only find references to Hyundai and Nissan specifically and in the 2000's.
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Citation needed.
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No, it's really not. It's literally as complicated as googling "cars without radios".
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Right. Because if there's an 'emergency', my first instinct will be to seek out an AM radio.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
> Right. Because if there's an 'emergency', my first instinct will be to seek out an AM radio.
If there is no internet or cellular service it will become your new first instinct.
Ham Radio (Score:2)
Better idea, how about every new car has to come with a short wave radio transceiver instead? That would probably be more useful than anything in a disaster/national emergency.
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You'd be right in regard to short wave's range, especially at night. The issue is that almost all the cars out there have AM radios and almost none has SW radios.
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When everything else is out of commission, an AM radio station may be the only source of information you have.
Additionally settinging up an AM broadcast transmitter is trivial compared to everything else. You can literally buy a kit from a company and solder together a low-power AM transmitter that, given a proper antenna, will cover an entire town. Commercial stations can cover a wide area with relatively low power and costs less to operate than FM.
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If they didn't use any emergency AM broadcasts during 9/11 then it's safe to assume it's not going to happen.
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9/11 didn't make the internet unavailable. If it had and you were in a car, most likely AM radio would have been your friend.
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> When everything else is out of commission, an AM radio station may be the only source of information you have.
At which point, I'll find someone who does have an AM receiver and listen with them. If I don't think I can find someone, I can easily buy an emergency radio now. This is a solvable problem with far less intrusive solutions.
Since public safety (the Baptists) seems to be a cover story, I'm sure it's entirely about preserving AM talk radio, at the behest of either politicians or the AM stations themselves (the Bootleggers).
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If everyone thought like you, then you certainly wouldn't be able to find someone who has an AM radio. And it's cute that you think you can just buy an AM radio during an emergency when the only method of keeping up to date may be an AM radio.
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What is your grid-down comms plan?
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A generator with enough fuel to run for 36 hours. Fully charged batteries, including several large ones, with the electronic know-how to rig them for any purpose. Gas heaters as well as electric. Food reserves for 2 months. My biggest problem would be water, since I'm on a well and would need the generator on to pump water, but I have a pond about 50 yards from my house with water filtration supplies to make it drinkable. I bet I could shelter in place for at least 2-3 weeks.
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And currently is good over long distances unlike many DRM sources which seem to die as soon as you go into a underground carpark AM gets static but I can at least listen to any news or words FM I find is good when the station supplies a strong signal DRM stations are getting better and they will probably be excellent once the stations improve their transmitters. but nothing beats the simplicity of AM just about anyone can make one in an emergency [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_radio
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The rule really should be that Analog AM radio should remain as it is ( as a receiver or transmitter can be made with off-the-shelf parts, hell you can make an AM radio receiver with nothing more than amplified speakers and a coil of wire.) There should probably be a newer HD Radio based on OPUS rather than proprietary codecs that can piggy-back off AM/FM so that in the case of emergency, the car radio can either switch to the analog broadcast, or automatically seek the closest analog AM radio signal.
But A
Re: (Score:1)
What if you shoved a battery-powered propeller up a frog's ass?
You would win the gold medal in swimming.
Re:Good (Score:4, Funny)
I misread "libtard" for "lizard" ... still, since I went to the trouble of finding the ever-relevant text:
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. We learned that if you let your supply chain get compromised, the only thing stopping somebody from being able to make your pager blow up is, well, nothing, really.
Re: (Score:2)
AM is in the kilohertz range preacher.
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Nor do I, but that's irrelevant. No one is holding a gun to either of our heads forcing us to listen to it.
But but but... (Score:3)
free market!
Re: (Score:2)
Free market s only good if it favors your party's point of view.