USPS' Long-Awaited Mail Truck Makes Its Debut To Rave Reviews From Carriers (apnews.com)
- Reference: 0175009097
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/09/16/2114245/usps-long-awaited-mail-truck-makes-its-debut-to-rave-reviews-from-carriers
- Source link: https://apnews.com/article/postal-service-next-generation-delivery-vehicle-a2ebbfc7afec0eea2e036eef93bee4d9
> The Postal Service's new delivery vehicles aren't going to win a beauty contest. They're tall and ungainly. The windshields are vast. Their hoods resemble a duck bill. Their bumpers are enormous. "You can tell that (the designers) didn't have appearance in mind," postal worker Avis Stonum said. Odd appearance aside, the first handful of Next Generation Delivery Vehicles that rolled onto postal routes in August in Athens, Georgia, are [1]getting rave reviews from letter carriers accustomed to cantankerous older vehicles that lack modern safety features and are prone to breaking down -- and even catching fire.
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> Within a few years, the fleet will have expanded to 60,000, most of them electric models, serving as the Postal Service's primary delivery truck from Maine to Hawaii. Once fully deployed, they'll represent one of the most visible signs of the agency's 10-year, $40 billion transformation led by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, who's also renovating aging facilities, overhauling the processing and transportation network, and instituting other changes. The current postal vehicles -- the Grumman Long Life Vehicle, dating to 1987 -- have made good on their name, outlasting their projected 25-year lifespan. But they're well overdue for replacement. Noisy and fuel-inefficient (9 mpg), the Grummans are costly to maintain. They're scalding hot in the summer, with only an old-school electric fan to circulate air. They have mirrors mounted on them that -- when perfectly aligned -- allow the driver to see around the vehicle, but the mirrors constantly get knocked out of alignment. Alarmingly, nearly 100 of the vehicles caught fire last year, imperiling carriers and mail alike.
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> The new trucks are being built with comfort, safety and utility in mind by Oshkosh Defense in South Carolina. Even tall postal carriers can stand up without bonking their heads and walk from front to back to retrieve packages. For safety, the vehicles have airbags, 360-degree cameras, blind-spot monitoring, collision sensors and anti-lock brakes -- all of which are missing on the Grummans. The new trucks also feature something common in most cars for more than six decades: air conditioning. And that's key for drivers in the Deep South, the desert Southwest and other areas with scorching summers. [...] Brian Renfroe, president of the National Letter Carriers Association, said union members are enthusiastic about the new vehicles, just as they were when the Grummans marked a leap forward from the previous old-school Jeeps. He credited DeJoy with bringing a sense of urgency to get them into production. "We're excited now to be at the point where they're [2]starting to hit the streets ," Renfroe said.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/postal-service-next-generation-delivery-vehicle-a2ebbfc7afec0eea2e036eef93bee4d9
[2] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/03/02/0438259/usps-starts-nationwide-electric-vehicle-fleet
Oshkosh pork (Score:5, Insightful)
Keep in mind, the government contract was specifically designed so that only Oshkosh could win it.
Re: (Score:3)
Yup. Simply requiring both an EV and ICE version eliminates companies like Rivian or Tesla from bidding. The fact that it's not GM or Ford really shows that something weird was going on. Though the last one was from Grumman, so the USPS has been with defense contractors before.
Re: (Score:2)
" While these were made by an aircraft engineering company that doesn't exactly exist anymore (it is now part of the well known Northrop Grumman), they are pretty much a Chevy S10/Blazer under the aircraft-like, sheet metal exterior.
The chassis was made by General Motors, and based off of the 2WD Blazer and S10. The front suspension and instrument cluster are similar to the S-10 as well. The engine first put into the trucks was the 2.5L "Iron Duke", and then later a General Motors 2.2L I-4 iron block/alum
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I mean, is this a problem? Why do you hate capitalism?
Re: (Score:2)
Non-competitive bidding is capitalism ? On what planet? Are you one of those people who tars everything bad as "capitalism" just because it happened in the USA? Can I blame absolutely everything bad that's ever happened in China or North Korea on Communism? Since you're a red-armband asshole, do you think that'd be a fair angle?
Re: (Score:2)
Oshkosh B'gosh!
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> Keep in mind, the government contract was specifically designed so that only Oshkosh could win it.
I don't know about this and don't know what to even search for. Could you give some pointers about that contract design, please?
About Time (Score:2)
It is incredible that Postal Trucks have remained as tiny as they have for so long. It's no wonder Amazon and UPS deliver packages in giant vans packing so much more mail and packages into a vehicle. How did this not change 20 years ago?
Re: (Score:1)
Corruption.
UPS and FedEx have no problem getting a custom Ford Econoline that is easy to fix and gets good mileage.
Re:About Time (Score:5, Informative)
Why would Biden appoint such an incompetent head of the USPS?
*checks notes*
Oh my mistake, he's a Trump stooge who got the job for being a major fundraiser.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh my mistake, he's a Trump stooge who got the job for being a major fundraiser.
And one of his first acts was to continue [1]the dismantling [forbes.com] of high speed mail sorting equipment right befor the election, even though he claimed he ordered a stop to it.
[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/08/19/reports-of-dismantled-usps-sorting-machines-continue-despite-dejoy-announcing-halt/
Re: (Score:1)
You are an idiot:
The PMG is selected and appointed by the Board of Governors of the Postal Service, which is appointed by the president. The postmaster general then also sits on the board. The PMG does not serve at the president's pleasure and can only be dismissed by the Board of Governors.
So basically, a bunch of Washington insiders that have unelected positions selecting one from within. We call it the swamp. 2 out of 11 of those positions were selected by Trump, 5 by Biden and 2 vacant still being selec
Re: (Score:2)
> So basically, a bunch of Washington insiders that have unelected positions selecting one from within.
The term you're looking for is "Representative Democracy"
We elect the President
Every state elects 2 Senators
Those people nominate and confirm the governors. Calling it "the swamp" is just empty populism, this is how it works. Do you want to change to a system where the entire country votes for the governors of the Postal Service?
Re: About Time (Score:2)
It took so long to catch up because the post office does something rare taught in business schools: run an entire massive organization with "C players." Amazon is pretty insistent about having "A players" and managing the rest out of the company or up into acceptable performance. It also helps a massive chunk of the USPS' customer revenue comes from a few commercial bulk mailers; which is really easy to see during an election season. They don't have to improve much when their biggest customers go with them
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Amazon deliveries are their own special shit show. I see them using Ryder or Budget rental trucks half the time. My guess is Amazon contracted out to a shady company who doesn't own trucks and thinks they can make a profit using permanent rentals.
New cabins (Score:2)
I saw a truck a few months ago, where the front was literally built like a bus. The driver walks through double-doors, then upstairs to the steering wheel.
Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is corrupt (Score:4, Informative)
He has royally messed up the USPS because he controls a competing delivery service. The hours are shorter in the post office locations, they have reduced staffing levels (longer waits), and delivery is much more flaky.
I assume that the "rave reviews" are government funded propaganda press releases, because that's how he rolls. I will only consider this to not be a failure if some obviously independent group, who is clearly talking to USPS delivery drivers says they are OK. Even if the union boss agrees, that means nothing, So may unions have been co-opted by their employing operations that groveling is standard practice.
As for the pork for the manufacturing contract, it's a given. If it's good enough for the entire US military-industrial complex, it's good enough for the USPS.
Re: (Score:2)
> He has royally messed up the USPS because he controls a competing delivery service.
Interesting. Do you have any more info on this?
Re: (Score:3)
A quick search turned up numerous articles. Here's an example: [1]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u... [nbcnews.com]
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-documents-detail-conflicts-interest-dejoy-faced-post-office-head-rcna3431
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> A quick search turned up numerous articles. Here's an example:
> [1]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u... [nbcnews.com]
Thanks for sharing. Seems like he owned shares in other defence contractors like Honeywell and Lockheed Martin. I'm not familiar with the field, so I can't comment on how much overlap there is between them.
This is the trouble with hiring political donors to important roles in the federal government. Only rich people have the funds to become political donors, and most rich people will have a diverse portfolio*. We need very strong, very transparent rules about how conflicts of interest are dealt with... and
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-documents-detail-conflicts-interest-dejoy-faced-post-office-head-rcna3431
Re: (Score:2)
> I assume that the "rave reviews" are government funded propaganda press releases, because that's how he rolls.
If you'd bothered to read even the title, it would be clear that the "rave reviews" are about the trucks (not about the postmaster general), from drivers who think the shiny new mail trucks are a lot better than the 30 year old ones that didn't even have AC. Is that really so hard to believe? But yeah, go ahead, look for conspiracy theories and propaganda.
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They really don't need propaganda. They rolled them out in Georgia in the summer, and they have air conditioning. Nothing else matters. We won't know how they are really received until they get road tested all over the country. And how reliable are they? If the A/C fails a lot drivers will sour on them quickly.
10 Years and $3 Billion for a New Mail Truck (Score:2)
[1]https://reason.com/2024/09/13/... [reason.com]
Oshkosh Defense’s USPS van is thousands of dollars more expensive than the industry standard.
Of the 106,000 new delivery vehicles planned for purchase by 2028, 60,000 are NGDVs. Though exact prices are difficult to ascertain, the March 2022 order of 50,000 was valued at $2.98 billion. This brings the per-unit price of the NGDV to $59,600.
This is what you get when you start with an insane system of writing super-detailed highly-unrealistic design requirements for vehicl
[1] https://reason.com/2024/09/13/10-years-and-3-billion-for-a-new-mail-truck/
Air Conditioning ! (Score:3)
> [air conditioning is ... ] key for drivers in the Deep South, the desert Southwest and other areas with scorching summers.
Good Grief! I live in Canada, just north of the 45th parallel and even here it can get "scorching hot". Today, for example (16 September), it hit 30C (about 86F) this afternoon and was more than a little unpleasant working outside. The last several years have been like this. (Global warming, you know.) I think all of the USPS trucks should have had air conditioning years ago.
Re: Air Conditioning ! (Score:2)
If you think that's scorching hot...
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For reference: here in Paraguay, in summer, you are already happy if the outside temperature drops to 35C after the sun stops shining. 45C during the day is common in summer. The last few years, spring sometimes manages to reach 40C.
And then we still haven't talked about humidity.
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In Houston, where I live, we have nights where the low temperature never falls *below* 86. When 86 is the high, we're looking for restaurants with patio seating!
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lol, 86F, that's almost sweater weather in the deep south...
Design of front (Score:2)
Judging from the pictures, the windshield design looks extraordinarily un-aerodynamic. The picture with the older van next to it looks like it would be more energy efficient. Am I wrong, and it doesn't really matter? Or are they not concerned about efficiency since the vehicles are mostly local stop-and-go?
Good thing most are electric. (Score:2)
Okay, I've read a fair bit on these things, and am really happy that so many will be electric.
Basically, as getting a custom designed vehicle for the job should indicate, these are very special duty vehicles. Generally, a mail route is a very low number of miles/day, and filled with lots of starts and stops. Ideal for an EV, very unideal for an ICE. Also, the limited number of miles means that overnight charging would be relatively easy.
The ICE version of this truck? Rated for 14.7 mpg, 8.6 if the AC is
Re: (Score:2)
> The ICE version of this truck? Rated for 14.7 mpg, 8.6 if the AC is on.
Wait, why didn't they just build this on a Chevy platform that gets 22/16 mpg with AC?
Heck, even the 6.7L CAT Diesel pickup gets over 20 with AC.
It's ludicrous to get 8.7 mpg in 2024.
I suppose stamps will be going up again.
Re: Good thing most are electric. (Score:3, Informative)
There was some video about it on the series of you tubes. They had a req so that a 95th percentile by height male could stand up straight in it *and* that a 5th percentile by height female could see over the hood to some (short) distance in front. No COTS truck chassis could do both.
Re:Good thing most are electric. (Score:4, Insightful)
To be fair it's a pretty edge case for what the EPA estimate is designed to measure:
Average postal route is 24 miles with 200-800 stops so these things are starting and stopping with that many accelerate from zero starts, carrying maybe 1000lbs of mail running the AC nonstop and probably with the door open much of the time on a platform that is not compable to a 202X vehichle as procurement for these things started something like 8 years ago.
Re: (Score:2)
It gets better. The vast majority of the old mail trucks are still *carbureted* engines.
Think about how much vehicle technology has advanced since the early 80s when this kit was first designed. I don't really understand the logic behind aiming for a 25+ year service life on a vehicle that's going to be in near daily service. They don't do that with heavy trucks. If you run mail contracts in freight hauling, they require your truck to be IIRC 5 years old or less. Why the big disparity?
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I call bullshit. Quote a source.
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The advice for most people is "the cheapest car is the one you already own" for numerous reasons, I don't see how that doesn't apply here.
Average Route is 24mi, about 9k miles per year and over their 24 year lifespan thats just north of 200K. Seems pretty reasonable.
If they don't rust to shit up in the salt belt I don't see a reason they can't be maintained that long.
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The service life on most trucks are much longer than 5 or 10 years. Most tractors for long haul are expected to last ~1M miles, at a rate of 50k miles a year, this is about 20 years only being replaced either due to it being crashed or once technology has improved that the fuel savings make it worth replacing.
Most things can last very long if taken care of. There is no reason to replace these mail vehicles at all if they are still functional, they need to haul a ton of packages and some mail over very short
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Do you really think that a 6.7L CAT Diesel pickup will get 20MPG doing a mail run? Starting and stopping every 100 feet or so for hours a day? Seeing almost zero highway miles?
The 8.7 is not what's put on an EPA sticker at a dealership, it's what it gets doing the job it's built for.
Re: (Score:2)
The LLV didn't even have air conditioning. Just a little fan pointed at the driver.
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> Generally, a mail route is a very low number of miles/day, and filled with lots of starts and stops. Ideal for an EV, very unideal for an ICE.
Not in rural areas.
Re: Good thing most are electric. (Score:3)
Rural mail carriers drive their own vehicles and get paid mileage.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
EVs should work most of the time. I asked the local mail person about the local routes. They range from 23 to 75 miles.
The big question is winter. Do the EVs have enough clearance to allow for tire chains? And of course how much does the range drop? I would trust they did pick the version of the battery that still works at zero degrees F, at least for here.
Re:Good thing most are electric (Score:1)
75 miles hauling how much weight? The LLV can haul 0.5T worth of weight. A Tesla car, with all its own weight, size and expense can haul half of that in a trailer for ~100 miles (1/3 of its EPA rate) and range goes down exponentially as weight gets added. And those kinds of tests are in optimal conditions, EV range drops by 1/3 just when it is cold outside, what will an EV do with a 20 year old battery pack in the middle of winter hauling 1000 lbs up a hill?