Ellison Declares Oracle 'All In' On AI Mass Surveillance
- Reference: 0175009051
- News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/24/09/16/213256/ellison-declares-oracle-all-in-on-ai-mass-surveillance
- Source link:
> Ellison made the comments near the end of an hour-long chat at the Oracle financial analyst [2]meeting last week during a question and answer session in which he painted Oracle as the AI infrastructure player to beat in light of its recent deals with AWS and Microsoft. Many companies, Ellison touted, build AI models at Oracle because of its "unique networking architecture," which dates back to the database era.
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> "AI is hot, and databases are not," he said, making Oracle's part of the puzzle less sexy, but no less important, at least according to the man himself - AI systems have to have well-organized data, or else they won't be that valuable. The fact that some of the biggest names in cloud computing (and Elon Musk's Grok) have turned to Oracle to run their AI infrastructure means it's clear that Oracle is doing something right, claimed now-CTO Ellison. "If Elon and Satya [Nadella] want to pick us, that's a good sign - we have tech that's valuable and differentiated," Ellison said, adding: One of the ideal uses of that differentiated offering? Maximizing AI's pubic security capabilities.
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> "The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on," Ellison told analysts. He described police body cameras that were constantly on, with no ability for officers to disable the feed to Oracle. Even requesting privacy for a bathroom break or a meal only meant sections of recording would require a subpoena to view - not that the video feed was ever stopped. AI would be trained to monitor officer feeds for anything untoward, which Ellison said could prevent abuse of police power and save lives. [...] "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting," Ellison added, though it's not clear what he sees as the source of those recordings - police body cams or publicly placed security cameras. "There are so many opportunities to exploit AI," he said.
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/16/oracle_ai_mass_surveillance_cloud/
[2] https://www.oracle.com/events/financial-analyst-meeting-2024/
What's that Greem Mars quote? (Score:1, Troll)
âoeThat's libertarians for you -- anarchists who want police protection from their slaves."
Jeezuz. (Score:2)
Kill me.
Lots of idiotic hyperbole (Score:4, Informative)
First post on slashdot and a lot of inane babble on twitter about this being for ordinary citizens. In reality what Ellison is talking about is police body cameras and police vehicle cameras.
Here's the video of the point he's making in context:
[1]https://x.com/tsarnick/status/... [x.com]
Overall, the change being proposed is that police can no longer turn cameras off. That they're always on, and always sending video to servers, where AI looks for any signs of misconduct by police and by citizens police is interacting with. And since this amount of data is going to be impossible for humans to work with, AI will be unleashed on it to look for problems rather than humans.
Overall, a nasty vision of the future, but not significantly different from status quo where police body cameras and police car cameras are omnipresent in many developed countries.
[1] https://x.com/tsarnick/status/1835140086549324017
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
> Automatic license plate readers, mounted on police cars or on objects like road signs and bridges
What happens when Larry gets his hands on this data for his new Orwellian type world? I'm sure no company would sell that data for profit....
> Moreover, private companies are also using license plate readers and sharing the information they collect with police with little or no oversight or privacy protections.
Add a few more cameras, because of "the immigrants" or whatever fever dream they come up with. It's 1984 with the government and private corporations watching you 24/7/365.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure if you're a victim of hyperbole who hasn't listened to the video, or you know what you're doing and you're pumping up hysteria for shits and giggles. Let's debunk the BS:
> What happens when Larry gets his hands on this data for his new Orwellian type world? I'm sure no company would sell that data for profit.
First of all, it makes no sense to sell the goose that lays the golden eggs. Second, in his vision it requires court order to use the data, much less sell it. It helps to listen to the video
Re: (Score:2)
> Second, in his vision it requires court order to use the data, much less sell it. It helps to listen to the video linked above.
Court order? Oh, *that* will stop hackers from breaking in and exfiltrating the video! Heck, they might even release it to the public, which would completely blow any privacy out of the water.
Surveilling people 24/7 comes with huge privacy risks. At bare minimum, Oracle needs to implement strong security measures, including deleting older data so it can't be stolen en masse . I doubt that will happen.
Clarke wrote about this (Score:5, Interesting)
[1]The Light of Other Days [wikipedia.org], written by Stephen Baxter based on notes from Arthur C. Clarke, goes over this mass surveillance topic. Starting from one wormhole able to vaguely see something, to everyone anywhere able to view whatever they want at any time, or within time itself, the book discusses possible changes to society where nothing is private. Solving crimes becomes far easier because you can witness what took place with an unbiased eye. Government meetings which were once highly secretive and classified no longer exist. Corporate secrets fall to the ease of espionage.
It's not a heavy read, but it covers the topics well.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days
Re: (Score:2)
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] Thanks for your reference. You seem well read enough to know some history. This is a centuries-old concept. Thing is, does the policeman know that the suspect just swallowed a lethal dose of fentanyl, before the police are forced to restrain the suspect? There will always be the "unknown unknowns" with or without AI. And what about professional discretion? Do police sometimes let offenders off the hook for any of a number of perfectly understandable exceptions?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon
Re: (Score:3)
> ... were once highly secretive and classified ...
In 1984 and Minority Report and the war-genre movie, Eye in the Sky (2015), the government has the spyware, using it to deliberately or accidentally punish any sort of enemy. In the movie, Sneakers (1992), the idea of government losing its secrets arises but the idea isn't explored, with the USA attempting to be the sole owner of the universal spyware.
Re: Clarke wrote about this (Score:1)
COOTYS RAT SEMEN
So.. he wants to create "god" in his own image? (Score:5, Insightful)
A being / entity / thing that sees your every move, and you can't turn it off.
How.. "god" like. Or Santa-like. Or stalker-like.
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So, be good for goodness' sake!
The man has delusions of grandeur, or is the biggest micromanager in the history of corporate micromanagement.
Or, he's the very thing Orwell warned about, in 1984. Right now you lot are lukewarm (instead of openly hostile) at the idea -- because in Ellison's vision, this thing is pointed at police.
Wait until they point it at us. Then you'll be all sorts of sore. A panopticon.
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, wait just a second here. I want to go on record as being openly hostile to this idea, and in particular just the part about ceding judgement to "AI" on such matters. Some interactions shouldn't be allowed to happen in secret, and need as much redundant peer review as possible, but trusting machines for work like this sets a dangerous precedent by removing accountability from the review process itself. I wasn't gonna bother commenting on this at all, because I'm already being watched constantly and I did
We could stop this (Score:2)
but it would mean letting go of the culture wars and moral panics. Not sure if we're ready or willing to do that. They're fun.
But while everyone is freaking out of the citizens of Springfield eating dogs Larry's busy doing this. It's a trick. A distraction.
"One Rich Asshole (Score:2)
Called Larry Ellison"
What is that, two decades old?
> Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting
OK, Buddy, put down the 1984.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
He can merely buy or swipe such tech from Xi, who runs the Greatest Snoopatron in the solar system.
Best "qualifications" (Score:3, Funny)
"Only a greedy psychopath would make a mass snooping engine."
Larry Ellison: "You rang?"
"...on their best behavior...". Yea. Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
> The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on
> Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting
Nope. At this point, the police and citizens are still people, and, IMHO, people frequently hand the controls over to their egos and subsequently do Really Stupid Shit.
Battle of the Billionerds (Score:3)
Maybe Ellison should talk to Musk first, since Musk wet himself when that kid tracked Musk's private jet.
delusion of privacy (Score:1)
People think that their privacy will protect their freedom. Freedom to rebel against oppressive government
That ship has sailed long time ago. The only way is forward. At least we will get safer poor neighborhoods, finally.
We already live in distopian world so at least we might enjoy some perks of massive government.
We need a new constitutional amendment (Score:3)
AI should not be used to discover petty crime, because then it's stupid and can be used to target people. Do we really need to catch serial jay-walkers when there are murderers and rapists getting away with stuff? 50% of murders are unsolved in the US, and rapes have an even lower solve rate of 25%. But hey we can use AI to out people who didn't return their library book. These AI tools can be used for political purposes via selective law enforcement.
Re: (Score:3)
Perhaps a sub-orbital excursion that gets marooned in space. Cousin Elon can send a cab to pick him up.
You can't engineer your way out of politics (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't just build a program and go "ah ha! I have *fooled* the politicians and the cops! they can't disable the feed!!"
If a politician passes a law saying the cops can disable feeds selectively, Oracle will have to modify their tech to allow it.
That police can't delete (Score:2)
Concerned citizen: The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching ...
Government: I have altered the deal, pray I don't alter it further.
> ... no ability for officers to disable the feed ...
No beating a confession out of a suspect, or 'soft' torture. Also, no secret meetings with informants and whistle-blowers.
Government and the wealthy suffer more from whistle-blowers than they gain, so losing that is good. Losing a quick confession from the suspect is bad, so a record of the truth that police can't delete, will be avoided
Colossus: The Forbin Project... (Score:3, Informative)
Clearly Ellison is no fan of 70's sci-fi.
> We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom, freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for human pride as to be dominated by others of your species..... So that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads.
If you're going to take a shot at someone (Score:1)
Start with these psychotic douchebags.
Let's apply it to Ellison's house (Score:3)
I'm sure there are lots of amusing antics there.
Databases are no longer "hot"... (Score:2)
It's true, SQL databases are no longer sexy. NoSQL is all the rage, and yes, AI is a very frothy bubble right now.
But...word processors and spreadsheets are also no longer sexy. But everybody uses them and most pay subscription fees for them. They for the bedrock of business communication. SQL databases may now be boring, but they still do their core job better than any other tool out there.
Microsoft has SQL server (Score:1)
Why would they recommend oracle? latest version of SQL server work just fine.
Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure they will supply nice software to compile the death-lists as well. Anything for a buck.
Re: (Score:3)
Looks to me like the article is hyperbole and there's nothing to indicate he was talking about anything more than police body cams.
Re: (Score:2)
> Looks to me like the article is hyperbole and there's nothing to indicate he was talking about anything more than police body cams.
No, he means mass surveillance for everyone:
> "The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on,"
Not that having police wear body cams has done much to curb the police.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
> Not that having police wear body cams has done much to curb the police.
I disagree, we've come a very long ways from Rodney King and the LAPD of that time. The idea of police being convicted of anything was nonexistent.
I am in favor of police not being able to turn off their cams, but I think NONE of it should be available (cryptographically enforced) without a court order, and then the same video should be shared with the prosecution and the defense (or in the adjudication of a complaint against the o
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:4, Insightful)
Police shouldn't be able to turn them off, nor should they be stored at the police department.
I'm a fan of some kind of escrow that can only be access (cryptographically, etc) via court order, so that the availability becomes part of the regular investigatory/discovery process.
Cameras are close to fixing the problem. However, the system has adapted to them to continue the corruption as much as it can.
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:4, Interesting)
> No, he means mass surveillance for everyone:
Precisely, just [1]look at Britain where most people feel they live under constant surveillance and at least half are ok with it. [wikipedia.org]
Just imagine the manpower, even in London, needed to review all footage and tag or respond to it. While large cities are using such [2]tactics in Atlanta, NYC and Washington DC [comparitech.com] most Americans outside of those areas would feel very sorely put upon to have everything recorded, much less not wanting to paying for it
But, what if AI products prove to be cost effective, and general benefit to human life gets people well past the ick factor. Oracle, or whoever leads the pack, will make a mint, and it would be short sighted for the people leading those companies not to consider it
> Not that having police wear body cams has done much to curb the police.
The police department where I live will most likely have to operate under a consent decree with the DOJ. Their training and general behavior was recorded on body cams and they were so used to acting in that manner they did not even realize they were violating people's civil rights. The leadership is fighting it in the press now, but eventually they will at the minimum receive training to know what laws they were breaking.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=A%20YouGov%20poll%20published%20in,%25%20were%20unhappy%20with%20this).
[2] https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/us-surveillance-camera-statistics/
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:4, Informative)
I guess you missed this part of the story: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting,". Yes, this may be police body-cams now, but clearly the intent is to develop and optimize this tech and clearly it can be used in a much more general context afterwards. Also, clearly, Ellison understands that.
Re: (Score:2)
This isn't the first time that Ellison has voiced support for mass surveillance, this is entirely on-brand for him.
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno. I worked for a small developer who was an Oracle partner, so I've had meetings at both sales offices and development sites and Oracle offices alway gave me the creeps. I mean, yeah, a company is supposed to make a profit, but there's a point where it starts to feel a bit like an evil cult.
Re: (Score:1)
Have you tried Oracle software? It won't be nice... the UI for compiling the death-lists will be horrible frustrating and difficult to use!