News: 0174992829

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Microsoft, Google, Meta, and Amazon Fight Calls to Pay More for Electric Grid Updates (msn.com)

(Saturday September 14, 2024 @11:34AM (EditorDavid) from the power-plays dept.)


The Washingon Post reports that a regulatory dispute in Ohio may help answer a big question about America's power grid: [1]who will pay for the huge upgrades needed to meet soaring energy demand "from the data centers powering the modern internet and artificial intelligence revolution?"

> Google, Amazon, Microsoft and Meta are fighting a proposal by an Ohio power company to significantly increase the upfront energy costs they'll pay for their data centers, a move the companies dubbed "unfair" and "discriminatory" in documents filed with Ohio's Public Utility Commission last month. American Electric Power Ohio said in filings that the tariff increase was needed to prevent new infrastructure costs from being passed on to other customers such as households and businesses if the tech industry should fail to follow through on its ambitious, energy-intensive plans. The case could set a national precedent that helps determine whether and how other states force tech firms to be accountable for the costs of their growing energy consumption... The energy demands of data centers have created similar concerns in other hot spots such as Northern Virginia, Atlanta and Maricopa County, Arizona, leaving experts concerned that the [2]U.S. power grid may not be capable of dealing with the combined needs of the green energy transition and the computing boom that [3]artificial intelligence companies say is coming ...

>

> Energy customers must sometimes make a monthly payment to a utility that is a percentage of the maximum amount of electricity they predict that they could need. In Ohio, data center companies had agreed to pay 60 percent of the projected amount. But in May, the power company proposed a new, 10-year fee structure raising the charges to 90 percent of the expected load, even if they don't end up using that much. The major tech companies — all of whom are increasing spending on data center infrastructure to compete in AI — strenuously opposed the proposed contract in documents filed last month... According to testimony from AEP Ohio Vice President Lisa Kelso, there are 50 pending requests from data center customers seeking electric service at more than 90 sites, a potential 30,000 megawatts of additional load — enough to power more than 20 million households. That additional demand would more than triple the utility's previous peak load in 2023, she said. Between 2020 and 2024, the data center energy load in central Ohio increased sixfold, from 100 to 600 megawatts, her testimony reads. By 2030, that amount will reach 5,000 megawatts, according to the utility's signed agreements, she testified...

>

> Meeting that demand will require AEP Ohio to build new transmission lines, an expensive and time-consuming process... Chief among the power company's concerns, according to the documents, is what will happen if it invests billions of dollars into new grid infrastructure only for the data centers to leave for greener pastures, or for the AI bubble to burst and the facilities to need much less power than initially projected. If the power company spends big on new infrastructure but the power demand it was built to serve doesn't materialize, other customers — including business and residential payers — will be stuck with the bill, the utility said... AEP Ohio's testimony in the case also questions whether data centers bring as much to local communities as factories or other high-energy-load businesses. Since 2019, non-data center businesses have created approximately 25 jobs for every megawatt of power requested, while data centers have created less than one job per megawatt, according to Kelso's testimony.

>

> The tech companies rejected this criticism, saying the number of jobs they create is not relevant to how much power they have a right to purchase, and highlighted their other contributions to local economies... Amazon said in filings that it pays fees as high as 75 percent of projected demand in some states but that Ohio's proposal to bill it 90 percent goes too far.

"Should the Ohio tariff be approved, Microsoft and Google both threatened in their testimony to leave Ohio." (Although at the same time, "pressure on the electric grid is mounting all over the country...")

And the article points out that on Thursday, "the White House announced measures intended to speed up data center construction for AI projects, including by accelerating permitting."



[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tech-giants-fight-plan-to-make-them-pay-more-for-electric-grid-upgrades/ar-AA1qwNfv

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/

[3] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technology/ai-is-exhausting-the-power-grid-tech-firms-are-seeking-a-miracle-solution/ar-BB1oDl5z



Re: (Score:2)

by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )

You assume every household is charging their EV from flat to 90% every night.

So ... (Score:2)

by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 )

... the idea is to charge certain customers a premium because their energy usage is double plus ungood?

Re: (Score:1)

by quonset ( 4839537 )

> ... the idea is to charge certain customers a premium because their energy usage is double plus ungood?

No. They want to charge these companies who are saying they'll build energy intensive sites but haven't yet done so. This is to ensure that if the electric company goes through and does all the costly upgrades that if these tech companies don't put in these sites, the cost of all those upgrades doesn't get passed on to you and me who had nothing to do with it.

It's like having the con artist [1]put up money [yahoo.com] for a rally in Arizona because he's [2]notorious [publicintegrity.org] for [3]not paying [nbcmontana.com] his [4]bills [yahoo.com].

[1] https://news.yahoo.com/news/trump-had-front-145-000-131443386.html

[2] https://publicintegrity.org/politics/donald-trump-police-cities-bills-maga-rallies/

[3] https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/trumps-bozeman-rally-highlights-unpaid-costs-from-past-montana-visits

[4] https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-comes-town-brings-excitement-183909313.html

Re: (Score:2)

by jhoegl ( 638955 )

> the cost of all those upgrades doesn't get passed on to you and me who had nothing to do with it.

Who taught you this? In Murika, we bail out corporations all the time. You think they dont allow consumers to bail out utilities? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

30,000MW / 20M (Score:1)

by guruevi ( 827432 )

That's 1500W, that is about what you need to heat a pot of water, certainly not enough to power a household for the year.

So with people like that at the helm doesn't inspire much trust that they are capable of running the place. This is where those customers would go to another vendor and ask them to provide the electricity, if the "public" utilities can't cope with the increasing strain from solar/wind and overall electrification, fire them, let the market figure out cheap and low cost energy installations

Re: (Score:2)

by msauve ( 701917 )

30,000 MW / 20,000,000 is indeed 1500 W per home. But "not enough to power a household for the year" shows a real ignorance of the difference between power and energy.

The [1]US Energy Information Administration [eia.gov] says "the average annual amount of electricity [for a] U.S. residential electric-utility customer was 10,791 kilowatt-hours (kWh), an average of about 899 kWh per month." That's ~30 KWh per day, equivalent to a constant power draw of ~1250 W, below what the utility based their statement on. So, they w

[1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3

Re: (Score:2)

by ThosLives ( 686517 )

You might be surprised to find that the average household consumption is, in fact, around 1500W. 1500W (constant) for a year is about 13000kW-hr.

Should not be a federal issue (Score:2)

by SlashTex ( 10502574 )

In this specific case, I agree with the state -- to me it seems the risks of building energy systems for tech companies is inherently more risky than the risks of building out energy for say local houses/apartments. So the state needs to put on big boy pants, ask for higher rates and/or commitents and risk these tech companies leaving Ohio. Or risk screwing their residents.

BTW, imo, there is no way that the feds can do as good a job with infrastructure as state(s) or regional energy agreements. Sure, sta

Re: (Score:3)

by ThosLives ( 686517 )

Indeed this is not like general grid updates, where the average use is going up due to a large number of new houses or whatever, where each house is using a small portion of the total increase.

This is a very small number of customers each consuming huge portions of the new demand; this highly localized demand probably should be funded more directly by those demanding it, rather than spread around to every consumer on the grid.

Note that EV customers are "small" demand, and it is generally spread out over the

Grid costs part of electricity price (Score:2)

by bradley13 ( 1118935 )

Normally, grid costs are factored in as part of the electricity price. The utilities are selling lots of electricity, so they have LTS of money for the grid.

Unless they negotiated a bad deal with these companies, there shouldn't be a problem. If they did, well, that was dumb. Regardless, I don't see why the politicians should be involved.

Re: (Score:2)

by volcan0 ( 1775818 )

In Québec, industrial users pay 1/2 to 1/3 what residential customers are paying (no, the heritage portion does not count). We sold all our surpluses at cost or below cost (since cost is rising) and now are stuck building more capacity and the residential customers are footing the bill. [1]https://financialpost.com/comm... [financialpost.com]

[1] https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/renewables/quebec-faces-power-shortfall-hydro-electricity-exports

We got this all backwards (Score:2)

by Pollux ( 102520 )

Experts [are] concerned that the U.S. power grid may not be capable of dealing with the combined needs of the green energy transition and the computing boom that artificial intelligence companies say is coming...

These corporations are just giant black holes when it comes to money, power, and resources. They just keep demanding more and more, but all I ever see is it disappear into a black abyss.

Fuck our corporate overlords. I vote for green energy transition. I hope others do too.

Re: (Score:2)

by ObliviousGnat ( 6346278 )

> Experts [are] concerned that the U.S. power grid may not be capable of dealing with the...needs of the green energy transition

To solve that problem, the government should require every EV to be equipped with energy storage! Wouldn't that be [1]great? [slashdot.org]

Sometimes I surprise even myself with such great ideas that nobody else ever thought of.

[1] https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/22/08/18/2159213/teslas-virtual-power-plant-had-its-first-event-helping-the-grid

The electric company is right (Score:2)

by FudRucker ( 866063 )

Microsoft, Google, Meta, and Amazon should finance their own electric grid upgrades respectively, considering their history of renegging on agreements, the high tech industry is notorious for betrayal of business partners

They will pay (Score:2)

by Baron_Yam ( 643147 )

What are energy rates for? It's up to the energy company to be competent enough to find its own infrastructure.

Direct Link To Washington Post (Score:2)

by Isarian ( 929683 )

In case anyone wants to read the article from the original source:

[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/09/13/data-centers-power-grid-ohio/

This is now. Later is later.