Eminent Officials Say NASA Facilities Some of the 'Worst' They've Ever Seen (arstechnica.com)
- Reference: 0174991927
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/24/09/13/2213233/eminent-officials-say-nasa-facilities-some-of-the-worst-theyve-ever-seen
- Source link: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/eminent-officials-say-nasa-facilities-some-of-the-worst-theyve-ever-seen/
> A panel of independent experts reported this week that NASA [1]lacks funding to maintain most of its decades-old facilities , could lose its engineering prowess to the commercial space industry, and has a shortsighted roadmap for technology development. "NASA's problem is it always seems to have $3 billion more program than it has of funds," said Norm Augustine, chair of the National Academies panel chartered to examine the critical facilities, workforce, and technology needed to achieve NASA's long-term strategic goals and objectives. Augustine said a similar statement could sum up two previous high-level reviews of NASA's space programs that he chaired in 1990 and 2009. But the report released Tuesday put NASA's predicament in stark terms.
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> "In NASA's case, the not-uncommon tendency in a constrained budget environment to prioritize initiating new missions as opposed to maintaining and upgrading existing support assets has produced an infrastructure that would not be viewed as acceptable under most industrial standards," the panel wrote in its report. "In fact, during its inspection tours, the committee saw some of the worst facilities many of its members have ever seen." All of NASA's centers have facilities the agency considers marginal, but Johnson Space Center in Houston has the facilities with the worst average score. Johnson oversees astronaut training and is home to NASA's Mission Control Center for the International Space Station and future Artemis lunar missions. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which develops and operates many of NASA's robotic interplanetary probes, and Stennis Space Center in Mississippi, used for rocket engine testing, are the only centers without a poor infrastructure score.
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> These ratings cover things like buildings and utilities, not the specific test rigs or instruments inside them. "You can have a world-class microscope and materials lab, but if the building goes down, that microscope is useless to you," [Erik Weiser, NASA's director of facilities and real estate] told the National Academies panel in a meeting last year. The panel recommended that Congress direct NASA to establish an annually replenished revolving working capital fund to pay for maintenance and infrastructure upgrades. Other government agencies use similar funds for infrastructure support. "This is something that will require federal legislation," said Jill Dahlburg, a member of the National Academies panel and former superintendent of the space science division at the Naval Research Laboratory.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/09/eminent-officials-say-nasa-facilities-some-of-the-worst-theyve-ever-seen/
Opposite problem (Score:5, Interesting)
I work in a top university and we have the opposite problem. Instead of investing in technology and advancement in teaching, vast amounts of money are spent on vanity building projects. Shiny new buildings that cost so much to build, that 4 people have to share the same space previously occupied by 2. The buildings might look nice, but they are no better than what they replaced, in fact often they are less functional, because they are designed for looks, not functionality.
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you're a cost center. no one actually likes learning so the university doles out as little as possible to keep the teaching welfare running to you.
real estate otoh is worth $$$$, even more than the athletics department or business school!
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The lack of photos in the article is intriguing. Go look at IBM's old HQ in Boca Raton, FL. It was built with Brutalist architecture and is ugly as can be. It looks like a WWII fortress, not an office building. And yet, years later, many businesses operate without issue within the building. "Old" doesn't mean "bad".
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Old can actually be good, if it's built form the right materials. I personally think that any government building that serves a function that is expected to be needed for a long time, such as a town hall, office and administration buildings and so on should be built like they were 200 years ago, with good looking stone facades and architecture which is built to last a few hundred years , rather than making it out of the cheapest materials possible that will look terrible in 20 years time.
Whatever you build,
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But they probably spend more on their sports coaches' salaries & sports facilities than they do on vanity building projects, don't they? Why are they spending public money on sports that only private companies (gambling) profit from?
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" vast amounts of money are spent on vanity building projects"
Are those funds discretionary, or are they dedicated for a specific purpose?
There was that recent example of Charlie Munger donating money to universities toward dormitory buildings... on the condition that they use the plans he designed as he fancied himself an amateur architect. Not only was the design bad, it cost so much more per bed than other designs you were probably better off turning down the money.
Augustine's Laws (Score:2)
Norm has been involved in and commenting on government bureaucracy for a long time...
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine's_laws
Criminal failure. (Score:4, Funny)
For not using the classic "Houston, we have a problem..."! Which would have been perfectly relevant, lol!!! The authors of this story could so easily just used that.
this is a management problem (Score:2)
You have a budget. That's all you have. Live within your means.
I know, that's a crazy fucking idea.
No, that does mean you don't get to do everything you want, that's true. Of course that's true for everyone, government agencies just somehow seem to believe it doesn't apply to them.
Re:this is a management problem (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a very common management problem. Maintenance is not sexy. You don't have a press conference to show off the maintenance department. Even worse Management can defer maintenance for awhile without problems, then the operators get clever about working around the deficiencies, then Normalization of Deviation occurs, then eventually there is an incident.
In my former job an incident could bring in The Chemical Safety Board. Boeing finally got a call from the FAA. And Boars Head just had a plant shut down for listeria contamination.
Example of how Govt can't run a business (Score:2)
"This is something that will require federal legislation"
Right. Adding more paperwork and oversight is going to fix dilapidated buildings? Let's see how well that works out . . .
NASA is old, grey and useless.
Dissolve NASA as an Engineering organization. Period.
Let it exist as an agency to provide direction and issue grants/contracts for private companies to achieve NASA goals.
They need to give up trying to use old clock punching DEI engineers to do what a private company can do with 10% of the budget.
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That's the right wing viewpoint. It ignores the fact that right wing politicians using NASA for pork barrelling while continuously undercutting NASA's ability to perform are why it has such high expenditures.
The people at NASA are incredibly dedicated and talented individuals who do amazing things despite this, but there are limits.
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The government doesn’t exist to turn a profit. The government exists to serve people.
Sell the unused facilities (Score:2)
Consolidate operations, sell the unused space. However, thinking of obvious solutions to common industrial problems is not the forte of a place like NASA.
DEI not MEI (Score:1)
You want to solve problems, you look for diversity in hiring. A bunch of white men aren't going to innovate like a diverse team.
And anything NASA is doing, private industry shouldn't be. Nationalize SpaceX, ban private space launches. Let's get the profit motive out of space, keep the toxic capitalism on the ground.
Who cares what he thinks? (Score:1)
Eminem should stick to what he's good at - rap music - and stay out of rocket science.
Once-great NASA has turned... (Score:2)
... into a jobs program for career bureaucrats and a political mess, where jobs are spread across every congressional district
The SLS is a terrible design, totally motivated and mandated by politics
We need a space agency that cares about space
Re: classism create corruption that breed incompet (Score:4, Insightful)
That, and if the facilities were all shiny and new, these same people would be complaining about government waste.
Re: classism create corruption that breed incompet (Score:5, Insightful)
> This is why I avoid hiring white men if at all possible. Maybe the person is the second best candidate and not the first, but at least I won't have to worry about a toxic team because of someone who does nothing but whine and complain because he has to work with one of "those" people.
You're nothing more than a racist calling other people racist. Not hiring white people unless you have to is identical to not hiring (fill in whatever race you hate - in your case, you hate so called "white" people.
That's why a person like me who believes that race is a social construct can sit back and come to clarity that people like you might think they are inclusive, but are anything but. You are merely a racist who hates those you consider "white".
Textbook extreme racist. Now explain how white horses and black horses are different races.
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> Textbook extreme racist. Now explain how white horses and black horses are different races.
First of all, white isn't a race to begin with. It's a color. What's [supposedly] going on here (but which never happened so much it unhappened etc etc) is colorism, not racism.
Second of all, white horses don't have a high percentage chance of being biased against black horses, and all special about it. But white supremacy is depressingly common around the world. [1]Even in most of Africa [thevoiceofafrica.com] people with paler skin tend to be more privileged, it's a leftover from colonialism. Pretending it's not a thing leaves you
[1] https://thevoiceofafrica.com/2020/07/06/colorism-in-africa/
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>> Textbook extreme racist. Now explain how white horses and black horses are different races.
> First of all, white isn't a race to begin with. It's a color.
Howbow you actually read my post without getting triggered, then not try to cast me as something I'm not. Color. Wut? White as a so called race isn't a skin tone of RGB 255 255 255 RGB. Even albinos with their extreme etiolation are not the agreed upon white. If you are going to be obtusely pedantic, there are no "white" people on earth.
> What's [supposedly] going on here (but which never happened so much it unhappened etc etc) is colorism, not racism.
You are going down a rabbit hole here. If we lined up every human on earth from lightest skin tone to darkest, we would not be able to draw a hard line on what race is wha
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> You are racist as well - you just choose to hate a different "race".
I am probably a lot of negative things, but racist is not one of them, because I don't believe in race. I believe that colorism is real, and I could potentially be colorist; I have opinions about the relative merits of different cultures and religion, so I can easily be predjudiced against people on those bases. But race doesn't have a real basis, it's totally subjective invented bullshit which was created by white people to justify oppressing brown people. And the fact that I'm white AF (even the part of m
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That's why a person like me who believes that race is a social construct can sit back
The problem with "people like you" is you appear to believe that because race isn't real racism also doesn't exist. Except of course you're not 100% consistent and believe that only some sort of double reverse uno racism against white people exists:
You're nothing more than a racist calling other people racist
Re: classism create corruption that breed incompe (Score:2)
Ugh. You were a hundred percent on point and I was just about to upvote you until that very last paragraph.
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You are the problem of the new world.
Enjoy the wasteland you create . . .
Re:classism create corruption that breed incompete (Score:5, Interesting)
And you are basing your "insight" on what, precisely? It sounds like the problem is Congress, they approve the funds for specific projects. And they are not funding infrastructure. That's no surprise as the R's in Congress do not "get" infrastructure preferring to fund their fat cat donors. And the things you mention are things NASA has no money for, and they'd need to be approved by Congress. So get out there and demand Congress raises your taxes to cover them.
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> And you are basing your "insight" on what, precisely? It sounds like the problem is Congress, they approve the funds for specific projects. And they are not funding infrastructure. That's no surprise as the R's in Congress do not "get" infrastructure preferring to fund their fat cat donors. And the things you mention are things NASA has no money for, and they'd need to be approved by Congress. So get out there and demand Congress raises your taxes to cover them.
Musk fans believe that Spacex should have all US space activities.
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that's not really accurate. they think he should run the entire government.
Re: classism create corruption that breed incompet (Score:2)
Itâ(TM)s much more simple than that. NASA got lots of funding in the 60s, for some big project or other. That means a lot of their infrastructure was built in the 60s. That means a lot of their infrastructure is reaching end of life. Without a big budget, it canâ(TM)t be replaced.
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So... nothing to do with the fact that NASA funding as a percentage of the federal budget has been steadily declining since the last lunar landing then?
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NASA in a sense is already in the process of being broken up, starting with the Commercial Orbital Transportation Service and the Commercial Crew Program in the aftermath of the Shuttle retirement. Basically every president of either party since George W Bush has increased the privatization of NASA.
Accelerating this or balkanizing the remaining functions of NASA into separate competing agencies is not going to fix the problem that there isn't any funding for basics like tearing down obsolete facilities or