"we have allowed ample time between ETAs first being introduced in 2023 and the move to enforcement"

But not between making sure people knew and enforcement.

The Home Office. Still not fit for purpose.

Just wait until you try applying for an ETA, if you ever have to. A total joke, complete with fake queue designed to encourage to install an app on your phone.

I'm working with my friend 'Harry.'

If you can carry dirt in your trousers we have both a job and a place for you when 'Harry' is completed. English speakers get a front spot.

Can't say more. The Goons are making their rounds.

There's well over half a million UK citizens in Canada, and it's only just hit the news here. The UK have done virtually nothing to publicize this so far as I can see. So far as I can see it has been an utter shambles.

Apparently the UK will now (it's just been announced) allow New Zealand - UK dual citizens to get a life-long stamp in their New Zealand passports which covers all of this. So it's not like there is any sort of technical reason for their decision. If they had simply done this for countries which had a lot of UK dual citizens (e.g. Canada, Australia) who visit the UK regularly as tourists, and publicized it adequately, then the size of the problem would be far smaller.

Punishing people who actually decided to go for citizenship after BREXIT. I guess they juiced them for their bullshit tea drinking exam so the poor saps are being juiced again.

Papers please.

Meanwhile my non dual national permanent right to remain partner gets to travel without paying half a grand to the state for…er…nothing?

Until Farage gets in and deports my wife I guess.

Why do you have to pay half a grand, rather than £95 for a passport?

What happens when a British National (dual or otherwise) turns up at the border without a passport?

For the most part, they cannot.

Commerical airlines, ferries and Eurostar will not allow you to board without a "passport or other travel authorisation".

If your passport is lost or stolen while abroad, the Consulate can arrange a temporary one. I don't know what that costs though.

There are a lot of dual nationals who travel on their "other" nationality passport, as maintaining two is expensive and a lot of effort. (I had to hold two British passports for a while for reasons, making sure I got the stamps in the right one was stressful)

The problem here is that the Home Office arbitrarily decided that dual nationals cannot get an ETA on their "other" passport. This part seems to be a very new decision and I for one cannot understand why.

Re the Home Office and the decision not to allow an ETA.

I sort of understand that as they are super legalistic and a UK citizen does not have an immigration status (eVisa, ETA) as citizenships trumps immigration.

But they could have created a special "non immigration" catagory in the ETA form to that effect.

I have written to my local MP to suggest as much.

She is Labour.

Fingers crossed.

Those are almost exactly my thoughts. I'm in Aus, but UK-born. Our family emigrated when I was a kid, and I've never held a British passport. Heck, I actually thought my 'Britishness' had been superseded when I was naturalised in Aus (because no-one told me otherwise). And I've been back to the UK on my Australian passport without issue (though the last time was years ago).

I can't see what risk (to do with a safer border) is being managed here. I would have thought an extra section on the ETA application would have been enough including a declaration along the lines of: "I waive any right to live or work in the UK for the duration of this ETA and agree to be removed if I outstay the ETA period".

Practically, I don't see the problem even if looking only at working rights. 99.9% of dual-national visitors are going to leave on time and go home. The tiny fraction who don't are either caught and deported (as they agreed to in their ETA waiver statement) or they claim their right to work at that point ... which involves exactly the same process but only one in a thousand do it instead of everyone.

Millions upon millions of dual nationals each have to jump through new and very expensive hoops ... or one British parliament tweaks a law to allow a waiver on an ETA application.

I’m confused. If you’re a dual national (oz/brit) you have every right to work don’t you? You’re a British citizen ?

I guess this £500 piece of paper is to prove that inside your Oz passport: this passport belongs to a person who is a dual citizen. I dont understand why it is so bloody expensive though.

Presumably you have to buy a new one if you change passports too. Seems like you’d want to get a British passport for 75 quid instead.

> you have every right to work don’t you?

A foreign (to me) government has granted a 'right' I never asked for. Now, simply to visit like any tourist, they force me to claim that right through an expensive process. Meanwhile, my neighbour can travel on a £16 ETA - quick, cheap, easy.

> You’re a British citizen ?

Apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvzdehnJA9k

> Seems like you’d want to get a British passport

Why the hell would I _want_ to do that? I'll just never visit the UK again. Sod the lot of them.

There are a lot of dual nationals who travel on their "other" nationality passport, as maintaining two is expensive and a lot of effort. (I had to hold two British passports for a while for reasons, making sure I got the stamps in the right one was stressful)

It need not be *that* stressful. I had two British passports for probably the same reasons. Process was mostly painless and just had to justify it. And TPTB were well aware that some countries don't like stamp collecting. It was an additional cost to renew both, but with staggerered renewal dates, also meant less risk of not having a passport when I needed to travel.

But also a bit of fun when I wanted to find out what would happen when I left on a British passport and arrived on an Irish one. Irish Customs are used to that one I think. Plus the rules between the UK & Ireland are a bit odd anyway, ie being able to travel just with a driving licence in theory, but I never tested that one.

The problem here is that the Home Office arbitrarily decided that dual nationals cannot get an ETA on their "other" passport. This part seems to be a very new decision and I for one cannot understand why.

I'm guessing the usual blend of bureaucracy and government IT. ETA's aren't uniquely British and an E-Visa scheme that the EU doesn't appear to have implemented. So if it's a dual-national British and EU citizen, they can get ETA/E-Visa added to their British passport, but not their EU-national one. It's a fairly logical decision, ie ETA is a linkage between passport and the E-Visa scheme & databases / data sharing. It's a bit confusing* and perhaps poorly communicated, but that's also international travel in general. What I don't really understand is why dual nationals with a British entitlement didn't just get a British passport given passports are one of the 'perks' of dual-nationality.

*Confusing? See also potential tax liability, if your second nationality is one that wants to tax offshore earnings.

> What I don't really understand is why dual nationals with a British entitlement didn't just get a British passport given passports are one of the 'perks' of dual-nationality

Employers with a security aspect might bar dual nationals or restrict their roles but may let it go if the person has never 'claimed' their British citizenship via obtaining a passport. And people may simply be unaware they can (as was the case for me). Or people may just not want to pay extra and manage an additonal passport.

(BTW, I didn't downvote you).

Employers with a security aspect might bar dual nationals or restrict their roles but may let it go if the person has never 'claimed' their British citizenship via obtaining a passport.

That shouldn't be a problem given vetting for DV or EDV would (or should) identify dual-nationality and allow a risk assessment whether a foreign passport has been claimed, or not. Then decisions like whether NOFORN applies, or not if the FORN bit includes allies.

And people may simply be unaware they can (as was the case for me). Or people may just not want to pay extra and manage an additonal passport.

Yep. Cost might be an issue, along with passport renewal rules, but usually once you've got a passport and are 'in the system', renewals are usually pretty painless. I think the bigger problem seems to be the lack of awareness & publicity. Frequent flyers should be aware, and maybe ask pointed questions about the cost of the UK implementation of the E-Visa scheme. It's rather expensive for a database entry.

(BTW, I didn't downvote you).

S'ok. I have a fan club that downvote pretty much everything I post. Haters gotta hate, trolls gotta troll.

"Plus the rules between the UK & Ireland are a bit odd anyway, ie being able to travel just with a driving licence in theory, but I never tested that one."

I tested that around four years ago as a British citizen without a passport. It was pain free other than I had to take the ferry as I couldn't find a single airline that would let you board without a passport.

The problem here is that the Home Office arbitrarily decided that dual nationals cannot get an ETA on their "other" passport. This part seems to be a very new decision and I for one cannot understand why.

Simple, They are spiteful, malevolent arseholes who are devoid of any humanity and common sense.

These are the tossers behind 30-40 years of attempts to bring in ID cards remember. They're also keen on other forms of pervasive round-the-clock surveillance of everyone: DNA databases, CCTV, ANPR, etc.

These are the tossers behind 30-40 years of attempts to bring in ID cards remember. They're also keen on other forms of pervasive round-the-clock surveillance of everyone: DNA databases, CCTV, ANPR, etc.

Yep. I kinda don't mind an ID card, ie passport, it's the database and creeping compulsion that's the problem. What is worse is the abysmal regulation of private databases and data harvesters. Which is made worse by abysmal regulation like online age (and soon, identity) that allows data abusers to harvest biometrics and mobile phone details in the guise of 'security'. Link face to other PII and a mobile tracking/surveillance device and that PII becomes so much more lucrative.

It's an unholy alliance between idiotic politicians, lobbyists and big tech that's creating an abusive and intrusive mass surveillance system.

To be fair this is no different to a lot of other countries including Australia and the US. I suspect the problem with using ETAs for nationals is they are designed for a limited stay time and whilst a national could stay indefinitely.

I suspect the problem with using ETAs for nationals is they are designed for a limited stay time and whilst a national could stay indefinitely.

I think the reporting is confusing as there's really two seperate issues that are perhaps being conflated. So a passport is an entitlement document that makes it easy to prove you're a British national and allow entry, even if you may also have another passport/nationality. ETAs are the UK implementation of the E-Visa scheme, but confused everyone by also introducing a 'visitors tax' and calling it ETA as well. So then £16 for the 'ETA' visa waiver linked to a non-UK passport, which wasn't communicated very well. Hopefully now when people get dual-nationality, they'll be told that getting a UK passport might save them some hassles because if they have that passport, they won't need the 'ETA'.

Other countries provide a way to prove your citizenship that costs nowhere near the £589 for a 'certificate of entitlement'.

So does the UK. You can just get a passport. I always had a valid UK passport when I lived in the other country of which i am a zitixen.

The certificate of entitlement is probably meant for people who have a right of abode but are not citizens, so it must be very much an edge case that is more manually processed with lots of checks.

Its cheap in the context of long term visas for foreigners. My daughter's husband just paid £2,000+ to renew his spouse visa (which is a lot!) and the same again for the NHS surcharge (which is unfair as his taxes already pay for the NHS).

You will be taken aside for a brief ID check and let in.

The only realistic chance of reaching the UK border legally is Eurotunnel as the UK Border Force is just 100 meters after the French one, in France in the Calais terminal.

It happened to us (last year) when we had left our passports in Spain and decided to drive there nonetheless.

As we were in the system, they just brought our records up sent us on our way.

A UK citizen will be in the system, one way or another, but there may be some delays in being interviewed and they would be asked to wait (detained) in the terminal they use for coaches, 50 meters to the right.

For ferries and airlines, that would be more problematic but not impossible, just very unlikely.

For ferries and airlines, that would be more problematic but not impossible, just very unlikely.

I don't think it would given there are Border Force posts at those and pretty much every standard point of entry. It gets a bit more fun if you're flying privately into small airfields, but then the pilot has to submit Advance Passenger Information for all passengers (and themselves) and still follow the same rules. Difference being there might not be a physical Border Force presence at those airfields, or sometimes they have mobile spot checkes. Otherwise everything just gets cleared online & HMRC has their usual collection of heavy books to throw at anyone who might fail to declare something they should. Or shouldn't be carrying anyway.

... minister Mike Tapp said last month that the government has worked extensively to communicate the changes.

The late great Douglas Adams got this.....

It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

I have dual nationality (applied for the British passport the day after I received the certificate, and trust me, managing the British one is a relaxation exercise comparing to managing the Italian one).

Question is, if I board the plane and I put down myself as Italian, and add my Italian passport as proof of ID....how can Home Office connect the dots? That's the part I am missing about all the outrage.....

is there really someone that got the citizenship and thought it would be a good idea tho put themselves down as British, and use a passport from a different country?

Not to mention that, to all extents, if I go back to my other nationality country (e.g. Italy), the UK wants nothing to do with me, as for them I am only Italian until I am back in UK....

I don't want to troll, just understand better whether there are implications here that I am not catching.

Fair point. I guess you could apply for an ETA as an Italian and conveniently forget your dual citizenship if asked about it during the application. Much cheaper and quicker than a passport or certificate ofe entitlement.

Things may get awkward at border control if they find out you are also British, since from today you're supposed to use your British passport to enter the UK.

UK voters complain about immigration, so the UK government respond by making it more difficult for British citizens to enter the country. That's a rather novel way of doing things.

As a dual citizen myself (originally from the UK) I don't have any sympathy. I've always kept a British passport because there was no guarantee that you can just prance over the border whenever you feel like it without one.

People need to get a grip and take responsibility for themselves. The UK is one of the countries which takes a pretty relaxed view about dual citizenship (i.e. allowing it without giving up your British one).