There is nothing there that couldn't be patched into the supposedly last ever version, except that the Board needs to see its pile of cash increasing and has imagined these totally artificial excuses to enforce it.

The problem is that Redmond is not a government, and users will see their own interests before the Boards' desire to acquire yet more money.

And if the machine that is running Windows 10 can't be upgraded to 11 then I'm not going to change it. Heck my CNC machines still run Windows XP via a real parallel port and they work fine for that job. I'll just take the W10 machine of the internet and all the problems are solved :) The main desktop machine has been Linux for years.

Testify Brother. Testify....

MS Marketing wanting me to upgrade is not a reason to upgrade.

I think the hardware issue is underplayed in this article.

I have Windows 10 machines to maintain that are almost 10 years old and are 100% fit-for-purpose. Like a lot of businesses, they will not be replaced proactively. The days of simply replacing on a cycle are gone in a lot of organizations. It's vastly less expensive to replace when there's a legitimate need. If the original population of machines was limited to a few models, the increased maintenance issue is small even with an aging PC population of legacy PC's. Right now, where I work, the bean counters are trying to decide whether to pay Microsoft's extortion extended support fee, or go with something like 0patch from the get-go. Most likely, we'll pay Microsoft until that option disappears (so we have the most up-to-date "real" patches), then go 0patch (or equivalent) until the population of legacy PCs is is so low it does make sense to just replace them in one swoop.

What's not on the table is replacing perfectly fit-for-purpose hardware anytime soon.

When Windows 10 dies, it's time to install a Linux distro of your choice instead for free , with no "hardware upgrades" likely to be required. I recommend Ubuntu...

And there is choice. Also you can install multiple desktop GUIs at minimal storage overhead.

Of course if you have a mandated Windows Only payroll/accounts/stock etc, you need a VM. Some legacy 32 bit Windows SW actually run on WINE and not on 64 bit windows at all.

I recommend MX - if you are ditching Windoze there is no point shackling yourself to systemd instead!

Ubuntu is encumbered by Snap/Flatpack/systemd & hates your widow decorations.

I hate it when people hate my widow decorations. I shall come back and haunt them.

Ooh look, a white sheet... --->

There's just way too much bloat in Ubuntu... I realized that only after I switched to Debian for my home server and Arch for my lightweight desktop.

I really can't recommend Ubuntu any more.

"When Windows 10 dies"

Nothing to stop one bringing forward that happy event. What wait?

I did that myself ages ago, simply because I didn't want to wait until Windows 10 was unavailable and I was forced into a Linux learning curve not on my timescales. My computer is still dual boot, but I haven't booted it into Windows ever since. There is one task I keep meaning to use Windows for, but it's been months and I still haven't done it so I guess it's not that important.

"IT departments must press the upgrade button rather than pay exorbitant fees for extended support,"

What are the actual of cost of ongoing support compared with buying new H/W to replace kit which is functioning quite satisfactorily? I'm sure MS would prefer to keep what in effect becomes a subscription going as opposed to the one-off price of a W11 "perpetual" licence and will price it accordingly. They win, customers lose a bit, MS's old H/W buddies lose substantially. Once the subscription habit is ingrained W12 can become subscription only.

Such pushy sales tactics suggest that maybe Microsoft has cashflow problems and maybe their books are not what they really are.

If I was a shareholder, I'd have a serious look at my portfolio.

All that matters to MS now is Office 365 subscriptions and Azure. The rest is just historical baggage.

I had full screen pop ups advertising Windows 11 out of nowhere.

Even more reasons to not upgrade.

Seems like thickos work in Microsoft.

"work" may be over-egging it a bit...

Currently have a work laptop on windows 11 and home desktop is windows and laptop is Linux.

So many things annoying in windows 11, it's a mess, I prefer to have the taskbar on the side yet some arbitrary decision by microsoft to not allow that move because "we can't give users choice" is so annoying. I'm sure since windows 95 you could move the taskbar to where you want and NOW they've decided you can't?

So - at end of life for Win 10, my desktop will remain on Win 10 for the foreseeable future because, sod them.

I prefer to have the taskbar on the side yet some arbitrary decision by microsoft to not allow that move because "we can't give users choice" is so annoying.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately (and accurately) ascribed to incompetence.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the ADHD-addled shiny-pushers at Micros~1 really don't know how to make the taskbar dockable at the users' desired location. I mean, these muddlebutts can't even figure out how to restore a window to the same size and location it was last at; and you expect them to be able to figure out dockability? Shirley, etc.

"Missing UI features such as taskbar positioning irritated users"

Most older PC's within the last 10 years will be overkill for most people, especially as so much is performed online or in a browser, so the reason to upgrade your hardware is decreasing, so why bother. Because MS want you to get a new machine with this, that and the other to run W11 ?

Older PC's you could often go from 4GB to 8GB to 16GB RAM and get a good boost, better still, upgrade that old lump of spinning rust for a nice new SSD and boy, was that effective. Nothing to do with the OS, a cheap upgrade that got you a boost, and you may dabble in that new fangled W7/8/10.

So the outlay of some pennies above to moderate to incremental upgrades vs the cost of a new machine to run W11. MS have missed the target.

Of course, they can remove those dumb restrictions and get their market share, but what about the poor hardware vendors ?

Oh, and MS need to really pull or fix 24H2. It is an absolute dog...... unless that is their next plan to appease hardware vendors, though it may drive more users away

Yep...my main desktop is around 14 now and does all I need to do. It seems slow next to my 5 year old laptop, but slow is relative. Certainly a lot faster than 'my' first computer, a 360/30.

< "Oh, and MS need to really pull or fix 24H2."

I've not heard good things, but have yet to test it. The last few years at my org we do feature updates in May or June, once they've been able to cook a bit longer. What issues have you encountered with 24H2? If it's actually that bad, we may skip this one.

The only functional reasons to upgrade Windows I've seen are:

- better TCP/IP support in NT 3.5 (if i remember)

- Active Directory, LDAP and GPO

- 64-bit applications

- WSL2 (although one can argue that the previous Posix interface (services for Unix - SFU) should have been extended and improved instead.

It still is, to me.

Again, if MS gives me a budget to buy new compatible hardware, I will gladly upgrade.

Only when Steam stops being compatible, I will think of it.

Steam (and Epic) compatibility will depend on Google, as both are electron apps and use chromium under the hood.

Let's see how long google supports chrome on a dwindling base of "legitimate ESU" + "semipirated ESU" + 0patch (if they even acknowledge 0patch) + ltsc 2019 + IoT 2021 + server 2022.

yeah, a very complicated support matrix for all the Win10 codebase...

> The problem is that there is no killer Windows 11 feature to drive the majority of users to upgrade other than "a way to keep the patches flowing."

Many see the problem is that Win11 is pointlessly rearranging the furniture and breaking things people use. Normal users like things that don't change constantly. They don't care about Windows. They just want to turn on a computer, go online, write a letter to the council, and use the internet.

Now they are also nobbling M365 subscription by forcing a huge price hike to include unwanted AI features I can see less and less reason to keep people on the system.

If Microsoft want to force a GUI change on someone then might as well move to somewhere totally new like Mint.

Or stick with Win10 precisely because Microsoft will stop messing with it after October. Keep AV active and updating the web browser and it covers most people's actual security issues.

Serious question - for a home user today how insecure is Win7? I'm not saying go back to that, I am just not seeing a need for people to leave Win10 behind in the next few years.

>> Or stick with Win10 precisely because Microsoft will stop messing with it after October. Keep AV active and updating the web browser and it covers most people's actual security issues.

This precisely. No more random reboots while it's doing things. No more support calls from my elderly parents because something has moved. Superb. Keep this up and my Dad might finally master using the thing on his own.

> Many see the problem is that Win11 is pointlessly rearranging the furniture and breaking things people use

This is precisely why I downgraded my new laptop from Windows 11 to 10. They introduced numerous changes to the UI and settings control, but the changes just made things worse. Annoyingly, there was no way to choose an older theme, as you could sorta do with XP thru W7.

I tried some third party utilities that restored aspects of Windows 10, but the constant upgrades constantly broke them. I've never seen Windows updates break such apps so often before Windows 11, so I took that as a bad sign.

Had windows 11 on it. Played with that for a couple of clicks, went fuck that shit and installed Mint.

The main things that stop me going anywhere near Win 11 are (in no particular order)

* Inability to arrange the desktop the way I've had it since Win95 i.e. Taskbar on the left

* Incessant adverts

* Bloatware crap clogging the machine up

* Telemetry "spyware" reporting back to M$

* Generally obstructive interface

It beats me that M$ can't even produce the same interface which works perfectly well (for me) under W10 in their new flagship product.

Maybe they started "depreciation" of Windows without telling anyone?

> Maybe they started "depreciation" of Windows without telling anyone?

They are getting ready for Win12 when AI replaces the GUI with a microphone.

"We have listened to your feedback about problems with the GUI and now introduce Clippy to enhance the interface".

Also available as a wetware plugin direct to the brain...

Maybe they started "depreciation" of Windows without telling anyone?

I reckon it's to make their life easier when everything is "streamed" from the "cloud" and you don't have your own computer any more, just a connection to the internet. If there are fewer things to customise then it's easier to stream it.

It's not difficult to strip the nonsense out of Win11.

Run tiny11builder https://github.com/ntdevlabs/tiny11builder/tree/main to rebuild the iso so the nonsense isn't installed. The link shows what's removed.

This will install with secureboot and tpm disabled in the uefi (I recommend that), which means that MS won't force an upgrade later that you may not want becuase the install fails the hardware test.

Install as local account.

After install, use Winaero Tweaker to disable other unwanted features.

Last recommendation... partition your drive (or use two drives) with a small C:\ drive for the OS (128GB SSD is fine), and the rest of the space or second drive (HDD if you like) for D:\ with Documents, Temp etc moved to there. Then it's quick to backup the small C:\ reasonably frequently as an image (DD will do that for free), whereas the D:\ stuff you can backup more often just by copying.

>> It's not difficult to strip the nonsense out of Win11. <<

....and on the next update, Microsoft dumps it all back on again. Rinse & repeat. No thanks, jumped aboard the Linux train during 2020.

Rather than take this opportunity to beat the drum for your preferred Linux distro use the chance to explain how flexible Linux is especially with 'Live USB' boot options allowing you to try a different distro every day until you find one that fits your lifestyle/way of working.

Remind people that Linux does not force you to change all your habits just to fit the latest whalesong from the marketing department, if you don't what they are selling then look elsewhere.

For those with long memories Linux allows us to revisit the early Z80/6502 days where every company had a different take on how to do things but it was the customers choice which vision they signed up for

I've used Linux and usually hated it, this time I've put some concerted effort in, I've changed things around and found alternatives for the Windows software I use regularly, all my hobby dev environments are on Linux, about the only thing I'll miss is Notepad++

When Win 10 starts nagging me it's no longer supported I'll image and archive the install off to the NAS then install Mint.

There'll be a couple of legacy Windows systems for stuff I cannot replace (EPROM programmer and some other bits) but the only Win 11 machine I'll have is the corporate one.

Notepad++ is available as a Snap with integrated Wine install environment. I have it running on an Ubuntu installs.

https://snapcraft.io/notepad-plus-plus

"about the only thing I'll miss is Notepad++"

I sill miss Brief... https://www.briefeditor.com/ but that's just my age. I know I'd miss Notepad++ too

I moved from Brief to https://www.editpadpro.com/

Well quite. I have three computers here. A server running on refurbed hardware, a newer but cheap laptop and an older laptop (which is my primary computer). Only the old laptop is capable of running Win 11 and it upgraded automatically several years ago.

I can't tell the difference between any of them.

Without StartAllBack I would have downgraded to Windows 10. There is so much that is terrible in 11. My second PC, which doesn't meet the hardware requirements, will be getting Linux, probably the Mint variety.

Over a year ago gave Linux Mint to two neighbors of mine, both 70+, and they could not be happier. Free, fast, non-intrusive, no bloatware, no malware, simple UI. Since then they've reported zero problems, including printing and scanning. Updates are set to automatic and the OS just does its job flawlessly.

Around a dozen years ago I convinced my parents to try LibreOffice, as they didn't want to pay for a newer version of Microsoft Office (I think they were using Office 2000 or 2003 at that point). This turned out to be a great thing a few years ago, when I added some RAM and swapped their HD for an SSD to breathe some life into their aging kit. I realized at the time that every piece of software they use has a linux version available. I convinced them to let me put Mint on it (with the promise to swap them back to Windows if they didn't like it). Everything works to their satisfaction, and there was zero learning curve.

I have finally had enough of windows, after running Linux for a long time I use that as my personal daily OS and work stuff I get done on a new Mac mini M4, I know Apple change a premium for their products but they usually just work, Update your update Mac OS and you don't suddenly find that Apple have installed something from their App Store for you to "Try". I also do not find Mac OS apart from a few instances as restrictive as Win 11, of course Linux is the way to go if you can, your OS, how you want it. Until MS take away the pushing of products in their OS I will not use it. I paid for Win 11 Pro, why should I have to go through my apps list and un-install stuff that I never asked to be installed in the first place every time there is an update?

Still happily using my Windows 7 OS and 10 for VR gaming. I refuse to go to 11 as I have whatever I need for the next who knows how many years.

And please, I know all about the security problems that are possible, but my computers are locked down more securely than Angela Rayner's knickers

I use computers for their office software and for internet browsing and email. The operating system should be something in the background that can be taken for granted. I see no reason for updating to Windows 11 except for the aggravation from Microsoft.

In the case of Windows 11 I'd have thought "selling shit in a sewage works" would have been apposite.

Yes, 98, Vista, 8 were pretty (ok, very) crappy, but their service packs (98SE, 7, 8.1) eventually fixed them up pretty well. Even XP only really shone after three service packs.

Nobody much likes change, but the big problem with Win11 is that it is actively more difficult and time-consuming to use than previous versions, for no obvious or clearly-explained reasons. Change because it's significantly more efficient once you've adapted? Grumble, moan, demand proof or examples, but all right. But change for the sake of change alone, or more cynically change for the sake of profit alone is not good enough. The only carrot in view is the promise of bonuses (or just continued employment) for those at Microsoft and their satellite businesses, but for the users, Win11 only offers a stick, and that does not make a compelling sales pitch.

I've been using Linux since 1993 so I'm just enjoying this from the sidelines...

But given some people's 'every other Windows version is good' theory (which is a bit naft since if you think 95 was good you'd say 98 is bad and WindowsME was good... and same with NT4, 2000 and XP...). But people use that to explain Vista and Windows 8.

Based on that theory, maybe some who don't like Windows 11 would reconsider if they quickly put out Windows 12 LOL. I'm just kidding of course, but as a Linux user, Microsoft can feel free to do what they want.