DeepSeek stirs intrigue and doubt across the tech world
(2025/01/30)
- Reference: 1738253716
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2025/01/30/deepseek_reaction/
- Source link:
In a busy week for GenAI, the tech industry is weighing the impact of the latest interloper on the LLM scene. China's DeepSeek shocked stock markets on Monday, slashing $600 billion off the value of erstwhile AI golden child Nvidia.
As the [1]dust settles and the markets recover, the industry is questioning the implications and whether China's apparent AI renaissance is quite what it seems.
A measure of the interest comes from an investment analyst quizzing ServiceNow CEO Bill McDermott, not about his company's performance, but about how he views DeepSeek as ServiceNow bakes LLMs into its workflow solutions.
[2]
He said: "these models are being commoditized at a rapid rate and probably more rapid than anyone could have dreamed of," the Big Mc told analysts following the company's Q4 results.
[3]
[4]
"It's exciting for platform and app vendors like us since the competitive differentiation will happen at our level in terms of the applications, the business processes ... and then ultimately get a business outcome."
He was not only thinking of the benefit to customers but also eyeing the potential for "the gross margin benefit" of significantly cheaper LLMs for ServiceNow, McDermott told the crowd.
[5]
Howver the CEO also added a note of caution. "As it relates to DeepSeek, I would just say we have a deep belief [in] measuring twice if not three times and cutting once. We believe very strongly in understanding what's really going on, and we're highly committed to responsible AI." He said ServiceNow teams were looking into the implications of DeepSeek's arrival.
China’s preferred desktop Linux, openKylin, chases the AI PC in version 2.0 [6]READ MORE
The reason for McDermott's enthusiasm centers on DeepSeek's claims that it has built its latest R1 model at a fraction of the cost of rivals. While Western competitors have poured billions of dollars into training their LLMs, [7]DeepSeek is said to have achieved comparable performance at a cost of roughly $5.58 million .
The DeepSeek R1 reasoning model may well be priced 27 times cheaper than OpenAI's o1 API, but some doubt its claims.
[8]Microsoft talks up 'significant capital investments' in AI as sector reacts to DeepSeek
[9]DeepSeek's not the only Chinese LLM maker OpenAI and pals have to worry about. Right, Alibaba?
[10]Guess who left a database wide open, exposing chat logs, API keys, and more? Yup, DeepSeek
[11]US AI shares battered, bruised, and holding after yesterday's DeepSeek beating
Firstly, there is the idea that it is a decent open source alternative to other vendor-provided LLMs. While some US vendors make claims about their open source credentials, [12]academic research has found they are not really so open.
Similarly, DeepSeek's open source claims merit scrutiny. Systems integrator and IT services vendor [13]Version1 has pointed out that DeepSeek may have released model weights, but it has not revealed its training data or training code.
In a Reddit discussion group dedicated to OpenAI, a user posted evidence suggesting that DeepSeek R1 could have trained its models on benchmark answers, thereby potentially gaming the market without producing a general-purpose model. Users [14]claimed that some answers show a 50-90 percent similarity to benchmark answers. Others in the group cast doubt on whether it is possible to get anything like a general-purpose LLM using the approach.
Whether or not its performance and open source claims stack up, DeepSeek has also taken a hit on its security credentials after it limited new signups for the web-based interface to its models due to what's said to be an ongoing cyberattack.
[15]
"Due to large-scale malicious attacks on DeepSeek's services, we are temporarily limiting registrations to ensure continued service," the biz [16]said in a note on its status page .
Regardless of the impact on stock valuations, tech users are bound to have more questions as China continues its push into Western software markets. ®
Get our [17]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/28/us_ai_shares_battered_bruised/
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/08/openkylin_2/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/26/deepseek_r1_ai_cot/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/microsoft_q2_2025/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/alibaba_qwen_ai/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/deepseek_database_left_open/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/28/us_ai_shares_battered_bruised/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2024/12/02/open_ai_research/
[13] https://www.version1.com/blog/deepseek-and-destroy/
[14] https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1ibz7ox/evidence_of_deepseek_r1_memorising_benchmark/
[15] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/27/deepseek_suspends_new_registrations_amid/
[17] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
As the [1]dust settles and the markets recover, the industry is questioning the implications and whether China's apparent AI renaissance is quite what it seems.
A measure of the interest comes from an investment analyst quizzing ServiceNow CEO Bill McDermott, not about his company's performance, but about how he views DeepSeek as ServiceNow bakes LLMs into its workflow solutions.
[2]
He said: "these models are being commoditized at a rapid rate and probably more rapid than anyone could have dreamed of," the Big Mc told analysts following the company's Q4 results.
[3]
[4]
"It's exciting for platform and app vendors like us since the competitive differentiation will happen at our level in terms of the applications, the business processes ... and then ultimately get a business outcome."
He was not only thinking of the benefit to customers but also eyeing the potential for "the gross margin benefit" of significantly cheaper LLMs for ServiceNow, McDermott told the crowd.
[5]
Howver the CEO also added a note of caution. "As it relates to DeepSeek, I would just say we have a deep belief [in] measuring twice if not three times and cutting once. We believe very strongly in understanding what's really going on, and we're highly committed to responsible AI." He said ServiceNow teams were looking into the implications of DeepSeek's arrival.
China’s preferred desktop Linux, openKylin, chases the AI PC in version 2.0 [6]READ MORE
The reason for McDermott's enthusiasm centers on DeepSeek's claims that it has built its latest R1 model at a fraction of the cost of rivals. While Western competitors have poured billions of dollars into training their LLMs, [7]DeepSeek is said to have achieved comparable performance at a cost of roughly $5.58 million .
The DeepSeek R1 reasoning model may well be priced 27 times cheaper than OpenAI's o1 API, but some doubt its claims.
[8]Microsoft talks up 'significant capital investments' in AI as sector reacts to DeepSeek
[9]DeepSeek's not the only Chinese LLM maker OpenAI and pals have to worry about. Right, Alibaba?
[10]Guess who left a database wide open, exposing chat logs, API keys, and more? Yup, DeepSeek
[11]US AI shares battered, bruised, and holding after yesterday's DeepSeek beating
Firstly, there is the idea that it is a decent open source alternative to other vendor-provided LLMs. While some US vendors make claims about their open source credentials, [12]academic research has found they are not really so open.
Similarly, DeepSeek's open source claims merit scrutiny. Systems integrator and IT services vendor [13]Version1 has pointed out that DeepSeek may have released model weights, but it has not revealed its training data or training code.
In a Reddit discussion group dedicated to OpenAI, a user posted evidence suggesting that DeepSeek R1 could have trained its models on benchmark answers, thereby potentially gaming the market without producing a general-purpose model. Users [14]claimed that some answers show a 50-90 percent similarity to benchmark answers. Others in the group cast doubt on whether it is possible to get anything like a general-purpose LLM using the approach.
Whether or not its performance and open source claims stack up, DeepSeek has also taken a hit on its security credentials after it limited new signups for the web-based interface to its models due to what's said to be an ongoing cyberattack.
[15]
"Due to large-scale malicious attacks on DeepSeek's services, we are temporarily limiting registrations to ensure continued service," the biz [16]said in a note on its status page .
Regardless of the impact on stock valuations, tech users are bound to have more questions as China continues its push into Western software markets. ®
Get our [17]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/28/us_ai_shares_battered_bruised/
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/08/openkylin_2/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/26/deepseek_r1_ai_cot/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/microsoft_q2_2025/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/alibaba_qwen_ai/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/30/deepseek_database_left_open/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/28/us_ai_shares_battered_bruised/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2024/12/02/open_ai_research/
[13] https://www.version1.com/blog/deepseek-and-destroy/
[14] https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1ibz7ox/evidence_of_deepseek_r1_memorising_benchmark/
[15] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z5uwMnKFsntpXb-3spxdBwAAANU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/27/deepseek_suspends_new_registrations_amid/
[17] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Doubt?
Anonymous Coward
Personally, I doubt all claims by all those who create AI models.
The only way to really test them is in an open challenge against each other.
As for security, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" .
Doctor Syntax
"China's AI disruptor rattles industry watchers with unproven claims"
In other words, standard marketing practice.
Damage control.