Did not Boris [1]promise that we could fund the NHS £350 million extra a week when we leave the EU ?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_Leave_bus

Lots of places to dig out this data, and it tends to be presented in all sorts of ways with various caveats and such like; this link is just the first I found (and it doesn't appear to be overtly party political):

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/data-and-charts/nhs-budget-nutshell

Total Department of Health and Social Care spending, Real-terms (2022/2023 prices).

2015/16: 142.1 Billion = £2733mil/wk

2022/23 (with figures not influenced by COVID spending): 185.4 Billion = £3565 mil / week

Thus increase in budget = +£832 million /week.

It really perplexes me why people opposed to Brexit keep reminding everyone that the promise of extra money for the NHS that the leave campaign made has been easily met.

You might want to look at the [1]BMA's take on this .

Healthcare spending per person is dropping (excluding Covid-19 funding).

[1] https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/funding/health-funding-data-analysis

So?

The complaint is always about what was written on the side of a bus.

Why are you trying to divert attention from the fact that what was written was true?

Because it wasn't true.

It just another brexiter lie.

Brexiters lie more than Trump, and he lies bigly.

Intriguing.

I post a link to a site that is non party political, and which shows that the claim on the side of the bus is, fundamentally, true, and you appear to be so blinded by your own political bigotry that you simply declare in effect that reality doesn't suit you, so it doesn't count.

Which I suppose serves me right for attempting to have a rational discussion with anyone still raving inaccurately about what was written on the side of a bus 8 years ago, which, on reflection, was probably not a very sensible thing for me to attempt to do.

We'll be rule takers until we're back in the EU.

Quite a few people don't like that, but the facts don't care about their feelings. They're just facts.

Those same people tended to complain about the EU whilst we were in it, and still complain now we're out. If we have to listen to them complain, we should at least have the benefits of membership as we do so.

@Philip Storry

"We'll be rule takers until we're back in the EU."

That doesnt really work if you think about it. In the EU we are rule takers. We know this as we been there, done that, got the tshirt and finally left because of it. The complaint here being we will not follow the EU rules and we are out of the EU. So we are not rule takers.

"Those same people tended to complain about the EU whilst we were in it, and still complain now we're out."

Absolutely. Leave supporters complained while we were in it and EU fanatics still complain forever and a day. Most people stopped moaning about leave when they realised it was done and not a bad thing. Watching the EU screw up didnt look attractive either but even remainers knew people wouldnt want to rejoin if we left because the EU sucks badly and we would have to participate fully instead of half in with opt outs.

"If we have to listen to them complain, we should at least have the benefits of membership as we do so..."

Easily done. Go move to your glorious EU. If it is so good it is just over there. Many EU countries to choose from but only 1 UK. Leavers only seem to complain when some remain fanatic claims the UK sucks because of some dumb EU adequacy rule we copied.

Most people have not stopped moaning about being in the EU and there is a clear majority in favour of rejoining - you appear to be the fanatic here?

https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls-uk-eu/

You also appear to fail to comprehend the impact of a loss of the data adequacy ruling will have. It will result in huge amounts of additional red tape with the trading bloc that comprises 42% of our exports and 53% of our imports.

Talk about cutting off our nose to spite our face to appease a minority of fanatics.

@Gordon 10

"Most people have not stopped moaning about being in the EU and there is a clear majority in favour of rejoining - you appear to be the fanatic here?"

I am responding to another moaner wanting to rejoin. Which seems to be the typical. Maybe I just dont see much complaining about being in the EU since we are out. Not sure how that makes me a fanatic.

"https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls-uk-eu/"

However, it should be borne in mind that the wording of the question can make a difference to the pattern of response. In particular, people appear to be a little less likely to say they would vote to (re-)join the EU than they are to say that they would vote Remain.

So no. That is in your own source.

"You also appear to fail to comprehend the impact of a loss of the data adequacy ruling will have. It will result in huge amounts of additional red tape with the trading bloc that comprises 42% of our exports and 53% of our imports."

You might notice I put a comment up for exactly this problem. That the article talks about there being costs but doesnt say anything about how and why. Without that it would seem to be the same stupidity as the remain arguments which said 'costs more because waaa'. So I actually asked in another comment what these costs to the NHS is supposed to be if we dont comply. I didnt even say it with any argument for or against compliance, just to ask the simple question.

You might notice that being TRAPPED in the economic bloc would skew our trade to the block we were TRAPPED in.

"Talk about cutting off our nose to spite our face to appease a minority of fanatics."

I know. Thankfully we stopped and left.

You might notice that being TRAPPED in the economic bloc would skew our trade to the block we were TRAPPED in.

It really wouldn't, as the UK now only has the most ( [1]not all ) of the same trade agreements that the EU already has, so the UK is more TRAPPED than before. The EU-Australian and EU-NZ agreements require higher quality food standards, unlike the UK-Australian and UK-NZ agreements. Also the UK stopped negotiating with Canada over hormone-treated beef, but the EU-Canada agreement excluded it. When the UK-CPTPP agreement becomes effective in December, there is no exclusion for Canadian hormone-treated beef.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_agreements_of_the_United_Kingdom#Obsolete_EU_agreements

@AC

Your comment claims more trapped than before while writing the opposite. You even point out the UK negotiated what the UK is happy with trading with Aus and NZ while in the EU we are stuck with the EU negotiation. And that we joined CPTPP which the EU hasnt even joined.

while in the EU we are stuck with the EU negotiation

There were UK civil servants, negotiators, MEPs, and representatives in the EU making policy decisions. The UK was not the gimp locked in the basement in Brussels you like to make out it was as part of your rhetoric.

@AC

"There were UK civil servants, negotiators, MEPs, and representatives in the EU making policy decisions."

No. There were UK civil servants, negotiators, MEPs, and representatives in the EU making 1/27th of the policy decisions. 1/27th of the say over the rules that run our country, economy and trade.

that CPTPP:

Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership

not sure why EU would want to join a fucking trans-pacific partnership.

fucking crazy that we joined, being in the north sea/atlantic area. seems boris sold you a fucking lame pup with rabies, may be thats why your so rabid

"Easily done. Go move to your glorious EU. If it is so good it is just over there. Many EU countries to choose from but only 1 UK. Leavers only seem to complain when some remain fanatic claims the UK sucks because of some dumb EU adequacy rule we copied."

I would love to, but my freedom of movement seems to have been curtailed

@Locky

"I would love to, but my freedom of movement seems to have been curtailed"

Wait a minute. Are you telling me this glorious utopia of light doesnt want you. It thinks so low of you that it rejects you while having a migration problem from less developed countries! Why didnt you move when we were leaving the EU? You knew it was coming, there was a long transition period. Even I was offered residency. So why dont they like you?

"So why dont they like you?"

Take a look in the mirror.

@Doctor Syntax

"Take a look in the mirror."

That doesnt make sense, I recommend reading the comment you are responding to. The EU rejects him apparently, they offered me residency. That they want me and not him is because of me? Am I that friggin amazing? I dont think so.

so unless we decided to move years ago, we are now trapped because of you fucking brexshiters.

good for you getting the offer, fuck you for pulling up the ladder.

@AC

"so unless we decided to move years ago, we are now trapped because of you fucking brexshiters."

Why didnt you move? And again you are saying the EU doesnt want you. And crying about it. Your wonderful EU with a migration problem doesnt want you. Why? What is wrong with you?

"good for you getting the offer, fuck you for pulling up the ladder."

I got the offer after brexit. No pulling any ladder and I rejected the offer thanks, I am in the UK.

That doesnt really work if you think about it. In the EU we are rule takers.

The UK [1]set the rules and [2]was on the winning side in votes .

Easily done. Go move to your glorious EU.

Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland. Why? Because of Brexit.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/feb/04/do-uk-meps-get-key-positions-of-power-in-europe

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/13/britain-voted-with-the-majority-of-the-rest-of-the-eu-in-run-up-to-referendum

@AC

"The UK set the rules and was on the winning side in votes."

Well that didnt go too well did it since the majority of the population voted to leave. So the UK doesnt seem to have set the rules (for the population) even if the politicians in the EU bent over for it.

"Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland. Why? Because of Brexit."

Go on tell me you dont like the Irish.

Well that didnt go too well did it since the majority of the population voted to leave.

[1]And now they would vote to remain .

Go on tell me you dont like the Irish.

I like Ireland and I also like the other EU countries. So do many other Brits, but Brexit has denied them the choice of living there.

[1] https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/45910-britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu

@AC

"And now they would vote to remain."

Except its not an option. We cant remain, it would be rejoin and thats much less appealing.

"I like Ireland and I also like the other EU countries."

You (assuming same AC) said "Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland." so you can go to Ireland to be in the EU. As I said easily done.

"So do many other Brits, but Brexit has denied them the choice of living there."

So I will ask you too- why does the EU, the land of utopia and light, not want you? I was offered residency so what is wrong with you?

You (assuming same AC) said "Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland." so you can go to Ireland to be in the EU. As I said easily done.

You do understand that reducing 26 EU + 4 EEA countries down to 1 is curtailing options?

So I will ask you too- why does the EU, the land of utopia and light, not want you? I was offered residency so what is wrong with you?

What's it like being in your head? A Lovecraftian nightmare with tentacles and scratching-slithering noises?

@AC

"You do understand that reducing 26 EU + 4 EEA countries down to 1 is curtailing options?"

According to you the EU doesnt want you except just that one member. You are not knocking me for reducing your options, you are pointing out the EU doesnt want you. That only 1 country might accept you.

"What's it like being in your head? A Lovecraftian nightmare with tentacles and scratching-slithering noises?"

You are the one saying the EU doesnt want you. My residency offer wasnt for Ireland but I am asking why the EU doesnt want you but would keep me. What is wrong with you?

You have absolutely no idea of where I'm posting from and what nationalty/ies I have. I have no inclination to share it with you either.

I assume this is because you're unable to say why Brexit artificially curtailing options for Brits in the EU and EEA is in Britons' best interests so you're reduced to shouting "Look! A squirrel!".

@AC

"You have absolutely no idea of where I'm posting from and what nationalty/ies I have. I have no inclination to share it with you either."

I have no idea if you are the same coward posting any of this. Assuming you are then you are complaining that you are outside the EU and in the UK. Assuming the same coward you replied to my comment to move to the EU with- "Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland. Why? Because of Brexit." aka implying you are in the UK outside the EU. I dont care where you are from or whatever but based on the coward comments where I assume the same poster you have told me.

"I assume this is because you're unable to say why Brexit artificially curtailing options for Brits in the EU and EEA"

You are the coward saying the EU doesnt want you, assuming you are the same coward throughout this discussion. I am just feeding you back what you say and watching you melt down with insults

I have no idea if you are the same coward posting any of this. Assuming you are then you are complaining that you are outside the EU and in the UK. Assuming the same coward you replied to my comment to move to the EU with- "Easier said than done, unless it's Ireland. Why? Because of Brexit." aka implying you are in the UK outside the EU. I dont care where you are from or whatever but based on the coward comments where I assume the same poster you have told me.

You made all of that up in your head. Where did I say the EU doesn't want me ? You can't even read and comprehend, so I'm not surprised you weren't able to recognise the lies painted all over a big red bus.

You are the coward saying the EU doesnt want you, assuming you are the same coward throughout this discussion. I am just feeding you back what you say and watching you melt down with insults

No, you're reading things I posted, claiming I said something completely different, and then demanding I answer a question which is unanswerable because it has nothing to do with me. But any time you feel like you can tell us why Brexit artificially curtailing options for Brits in the EU and EEA is in Britons' best interests.

"And now they would vote to remain."

Except its not an option. We cant remain, it would be rejoin

That was a typo on the A/Cs part because the poll was about rejoining.

and thats much less appealing.

Not unappealing enough for your liking, I suppose because the headline on the linked article was that the poll came out with a majority for rejoining.

@Doctor Syntax

"That was a typo on the A/Cs part because the poll was about rejoining."

Ah that is different. So how much bull are we to swallow to believe this garbage? I dont notice in the survey the full fact of no opt outs and joining the EU as a full member including joining the Euro. As with a previous poster- its how you frame the question.

"Not unappealing enough for your liking, I suppose because the headline on the linked article was that the poll came out with a majority for rejoining."

Nope still unappealing enough. That is why there is no serious offers to try and rejoin because it would sink the party offering it as it did previously.

Someone has mentioned brexit and the comedy begins. Codejunky spends more hours writing futile defence.

When reading Codejunky anti EU whining, imagine it being spoken in the voice of Zippy from Rainbow to get an accurate idea of the average brexiter.

I have thought about it.

Whilst we were in we had a seat on the European Council, and therefore a hand in what regulations would be worked on. We had the ear of the European Commission, and therefore our concerns were heard. The European Commission consulted not only our government but also our businesses and even consumer groups, charities or other groups when appropriate to determine issues when drafting legislation. And finally we had MEPs who voted on the legislation.

I'd say that made us rule makers. Rule makers alongside 27 other countries, but rule making can be a shared activity despite what some people think.

You can assert that we were rule takers all you damned like. That's not true, and no amount of thinking about it will fulfil your wish that it was true.

As to the rest of your comment - well, it barely makes sense. Why should I move to regain the rights that you removed despite my protests? Why should I have to abandon my family and any obligations I may have? Your failure to understand how the EU works and how the UK benefited from membership is not sufficient reason for me to move.

Already we see public sentiment moving towards rejoin, and those numbers only seem to go up. Numbers for staying out only seem to go down. Support for Brexit is evaporating day by day. So we will rejoin - the numbers make it inevitable. We left on a slim referendum majority that cannot be repeated.

Frankly, the UK rejoining will soon be the EU's to refuse more than anything else.

@Philip Storry

"and therefore our concerns were heard"

So much so that the UK voted leave. The UK population was lied to, told of the apocalypse and even directly threatened by our own government if we dare vote leave and we still voted to leave. Thats how well heard we were.

"I'd say that made us rule makers. Rule makers alongside 27 other countries"

Rule makers as 1/27th of the rule maker. But not rule making but voting approve or reject on rules being given. And thats making the rules? Thats very different to making the rules.

"You can assert that we were rule takers all you damned like. That's not true, and no amount of thinking about it will fulfil your wish that it was true."

Oddly I have the same opinion of you thinking we made the rules.

"Why should I move to regain the rights that you removed despite my protests?"

It doesnt make sense to you that you think the EU is so good that you could just move there? And thats a difficult thought process? Why? I am not saying you have to, if the UK is good enough as it is that moving isnt worth it then of course dont bother moving. But you are the one complaining then pretending its leave voters complaining. Yours is the first comment of our thread and I responded to you who is complaining.

It is amusing.

"Frankly, the UK rejoining will soon be the EU's to refuse more than anything else."

And so is the fanaticism that amuses me. Idiot politicians aint even stupid enough to insist they would rejoin otherwise they lose their voter base. Keep dreaming

It's interesting that in your reply you have to acknowledge that we were rule makers in order to then try to diminish it via the idea of working with 27 other countries being bad.

You then have to rely on the trope of us only having a vote only to approve or reject the rules, despite my having previously pointed out that we were consulted at many levels during the process. (Even news establishments that are openly hostile to the EU acknowledged the consultation and involvement as they mocked the EU - often the consultations themselves were the targets of their mockery.)

This is surely a form of cognitive dissonance. You're trying to deal with it by shifting the goal posts from the discussion of how we were consulted and involved in the rule making towards the idea that we could only rubber stamp them and are somehow lesser when working with others.

Your position is untenable - the facts simply don't support it.

On my moving to the EU - the thought process is not difficult. The lack of Freedom of Movement - which you apparently happily removed from me and millions of others - makes it difficult. As might other issues. Perhaps I have elderly parents who I'd like to be near to assist? Perhaps I have children for whom such a move would be too disruptive? Moving wasn't necessarily simple even when we were EU members, after all.

But that's not really the point. The point is you were happy to removed my rights, whilst I removed no rights from you. Quite why you're so proud of that situation is a mystery to many...

As to your refusal to accept the trend towards rejoining - sure, I'll keep dreaming.

Dreaming won't change the fact that the voters are moving towards rejoining. Polls show that voters think Brexit is a failure, that we were better off in the EU, that they wouldn't vote to leave if they knew how it would turn out, that the number wanting to rejoin is growing, and most interestingly that people don't feel politicians talk about Brexit enough. That last fact suggests that people feel that their concerns about Brexit are being ignored, which cannot end well.

Again, it's a fact that the figures for rejoin keep growing. I think that the tipping point will be around 45-50%. (Don't forget that there will be Don't Knows, so you don't need 50% support to show a clear majority in these polls.)

At that point politicians and the media will undergo a somewhat rapid shift. Just like the one we had in 2016 after a narrow referendum victory. Except in the referendum the figure for Brexit support was around 38% if we include don't knows (those that didn't vote). That's why I say that the the figure will be 45%-50% - that would show a clear majority for rejoin in any referendum, and make staying out politically untenable.

I await your next shifting of the goalposts, but I'm out drinking with friends this evening so won't be able to reply until tomorrow.

Ok so I read that there will be extra costs to the NHS. What costs? Maybe I missed it in this article but I dont see what costs they are claiming will occur? This isnt a statement of if we should or not harmonise the rules, but if its so bad then what is the bad?

I agree it's not a particularly well constructed piece taking orthogonal items from several difference sources.

For a suggestion though - less co-operation on supply of Medines and supplies.

@Gordon 10

"For a suggestion though - less co-operation on supply of Medines and supplies."

So the EU isnt going to sell to us? Do they not sell outside the EU? Especially if its easier to sell to us than the EU (assume less regulation or compliance messing etc). The EU kinda sucks then, good job we can deal with the companies in pretty much any country in the world.

Maybe this is why the EU is a shrinking portion of the worlds wealth?

It feels so lonely to be disconnected from a major network in this globalized world.

Brexit is also costly for EU in additional cross-border handling. Putin was happy, no doubt.

just why would the NHS be sharing data with foreign countries?

Because brexiters handed Palantir an easy way in.

AKA yet another comment section for codejunky to spout his/her usual shit take on the EU. [YAWN]

The UK has Brexited. Now pipe down and take those rules like good vassals.

Anything that helps drive a stake into the moribund heart of that wastrel that is the NHS to hasten it's demise the better

Whole medical profession in the UK needs a damn good shake up