When governments decide to devote their time and our money meddling in this type of technical standard we know we have too big a government. What next, deciding that all future memory devices must be 288pin DDR5 module compliant?

In this country we recognize the need to avoid waste and inefficiency. Your silly US "big government" nonsense is not welcome here!

Posting history suggests UK. It's just a Farage of nonsense leading to everyone using coaxial connectors of differing barrel and pin diameters and random voltages, just ot be different.

Ah yes, when every single phone you ever bought had a different proprietary charger that wasn't always compatible between models from the same manufacturer. Hard to believe that it was only eliminated a few years ago.

Yes absolutely, hard to believe it took so long to end that nonsense.

What's equally hard to believe is that this even needs a discussion. Obviously, we should follow the EU and mandate USB-C for everything that they do.

I'd like to see it on not just phones, but power tools, e-bikes, scooters, mini-fridges, anything that has a lithium battery below a certain size (e.g. 200Wh, whereby charging on a 100W charger would be impractical, although USB-C could in theory go up to 480W with 48V 10A) or an external DC power supply below 100W. Get rid of all the e-waste from wall-warts and inline AC adapters

No doubt some will be saying it's a Brexit Bonus that we get to waste all this money on having a 'consultation' on this matter, when previously the common-sense decision from the EU would have applied by default.

Or at least require wall warts to be labelled with the damn product that they belong to. Is this for a drill, if so, which one, or a printer, or a switch, or an older external USB drive?

(old timey Cirucs Announcer voice) Spin the wheel and take your chances, fry your device or save your data? You'll never know until you place "wall wart of fortune".

I'll take my pill and settle down now.

There is a standardised marker that most "wall warts" adhere to for barrel jacks. It indicates the polarity, voltage and maximum current that the power supply can deliver and the device requires. A device labeled 12V 1A will happily work from a power supply labeled 12V 5A, so long as the polarity is correct.

However, it does not tell you the size of pin/barrel i.e. which type of barrel plug will actually fit in the socket.

This, the lack of a readily readable/visible indicator really irritates me with the 12v adaptors all with the same sized plug, much liked by network equipment vendors, such as Draytek.

https://www.draytek.co.uk/products/accessories/power-supply-unit#specification

Other than taking a magnifying glass to the label all four variants look identical, and you don’t want to be using a 12v 1A adapter (WiFi AP) with a router where at least a 12v 2.5A adapter is required for reliable operation. (Made the mistake once of grabbing a 12v 2A adapter from a dead BT ADSL router, it worked, but the Draytek router would then fail in odd ways).

Interestingly, USB doesn’t really help, as you still need to double check wall wart and cable are correctly rated.

All my Bosch gear chares common batteries, and I belive they share the standard with a few other companies as well.

It may be a while off, but I understand moves are afoot to establish a common standard.

But, do the batteries have a USB-C port on them for easy charging, or do you need to use a special Bosch charger?

That is my point, that the special charger should NOT be needed. Just charge power tool batteries straight from USB-C. The PPS specification is specifically designed for charging batteries without needing bulky power converters at the device end. CC/CV charging is supported directly via USB-C!

PPS only supports up to 21 V, that is just enough for a 5S lipo or li-ion battery. It wouldn't work for anything higher.

Also for anything more than a single cell you need balance charging which is sometimes done in the battery pack but is often done in the charger. So the PPS functions are only useful up to a point, you would still need extra circuitry and converters in the battery pack to be able to balance charge.

You are correct, but it's hardly a show stopper. The battery could balance itself very slowly over time with low-power resistors and a standard balancing circuit on a tiny PCB inside the battery case. But balancing is rarely needed these days as cell manufacturing has become so much more precisely repeatable.

And presumably with the upcoming 48V USB-C spec, PPS will be able to do 8S lipos.

In any case, if you wanted a fast balance charge, fine, buy the special Bosch charger. But if you just want to be able to use the drill you bought, it'd be nice if the battery itself had a USB-C port on it so that you can use a phone/laptop charger. Or if not the battery, then the drill could have the USB-C port. Or if not the drill, then a special compact charging dock, which should be cheap as it is only a passthrough USB-C PPS sink and maybe some more balancing if really necessary.

Definitely agree about power tools; however, would not be surprised if the resulting standard uses the same connector for 12v, 18v and 20v systems so people are either overpowering, or more likely under powering by trying to run an 18v tool off a (cheap) 12v battery…

The nice thing about power tools is that there are several (?) industry lead standardisation initiatives:

https://www.powerforall-alliance.com/en/

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/new-eu-power-tool-battery-rules-from-2025.147451/

https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/en/index.php

I think the only reason for the UK to adopt an adaptor standard, is just to confirm the UK is the same as the EU and thus is not a dumping ground for old and weird.

Just a guess ;) In any case, what is reform if not a shoddy facsimile of US economics & politics?

Surely taking back control and having the freedom to be hooking up my phone to the mains with banana plugs is surely one of those Brexit Benefits® we keep hearing about?

I have actually used at least five different diameters of coaxial connectors. Each was technically correct for the application. If someone wants to manufacture something with an odd size of connector I as a consumer can choose to buy it or not. If the manufacturer decides they would do better using a more standard connector than that's also fine.

> I have actually used at least five different diameters of coaxial connectors. Each was technically correct for the application. If someone wants to manufacture something with an odd size of connector I as a consumer can choose to buy it or not. If the manufacturer decides they would do better using a more standard connector than that's also fine.

Customer choice to ensure a common connection worked so well before the EU got involved.\s

It is better for the environment if you don't need to have a separate charge for each item. If a company does not have to provide a power supply it could increase their margin.

So you would welcome the government deciding what memory module pinout we should all use? Or perhaps we should only use AA batteries and not AAA ones. Where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at those hyperbolic points, obviously.

You still don't get it. Read my previous reply.

The battery argument is stupid, because they are standard sizes. I guess you would prefer every battery operated device to have a proprietary size and shape battery and the batteries only available from the device manufacturer?

What a ridiculous thing to say! That's the whole point of governments. They "govern" - and in *this* context, not in the sense of run or control, but in the sense of "regulate". Make sure that there are the right rules, and that they are followed. Because industry alone will not come up with right right answer, because industry is mostly profit-driven. Self-regulation has resulted in 30 years on non-standardisation. Every single phone, even within the same manufacturer, had a different charging port/connector. Every other device had its own little socket. There were about 30 different laptop jacks, mostly incompatible with each other. We are only just starting to get standardisation now, and it'll take government regulation to make sure it stays that way.

Yes, I can charge my laptop, tablet, fly swatter*, speaker, phone and screwdriver all with the same charger.

*except it's just basic USB power over a USB-C connection, which means that true USB-C PD chargers cannot charge it. Confusing, isn't it?

... or you have a 25W wall wart and need a 40W, or 60W or 80W or perhaps you have a 20W device and don't want to lug around a 240W brick ...

Welcome to the world where device specific wall warts are replaced with new "greener" wall warts that most consumers will have to guess whether they will or will not work with a device and will only find out when they get home ...

And before I get the downvotes about "it'll just being a slower when charging a device", if the device is discharged, has a bad battery or no battery at all and you need to power it, a too-low power USB-C will not work.

There is a 240W PD standard.. OK, so you'll need a rather special 240W PD charger (and cable) for your laptop, but soon it won't be so special as other laptops and appliances adopt the standard. That is why we HAVE standards.

It also means you can get a nice (though expensive) compact GaN charger that does 240W, much smaller than the (cheap and nasty) power bricks included with equipment, and you get to save money by not having to buy one if you already have one ...

Also, I call FUD on your statement that a "true" USB-PD cannot charge a dumb 5V device - I have plenty of dumb 5V devices with USB-C ports where the data wires are either not connected or are shorted together, and they all charge on my variety of 45W-100W PD chargers..

And, regards to USB-C laptops, my Dell XPS15 laptop has a Power Management system in its firmware, which is able to throttle the total system power to whatever the connected USB-C charger is able to deliver. So yes, a 60W USB-C charger does work even when it is discharged, even though the design power (and included "out-of-spec" USB-C adapter) is 180W. You even get a handy message from KDE to tell you that the battery is NOT charging and the power has been throttled, due to the low-power charger

"Also, I call FUD on your statement that a "true" USB-PD cannot charge a dumb 5V device - I have plenty of dumb 5V devices with USB-C ports where the data wires are either not connected or are shorted together, and they all charge on my variety of 45W-100W PD chargers.."

I've had mixed results. The cheapest stuff I own that's made with the most Chinesium™ does NOT charge with a PD USB-C charger. The high quality stuff does charge. If they don't have a proper PD charging circuit in the device, the charger won't know how to charge it.

With those cheap and crappy devices, I use a USB-A to USB-C cable and charge it like that.

More to the point, USB-A is not a good charging standard. It's got all these proprietary things added to it by the likes of Samsung.

My little old (X27) thinkpad can charge at 65W via USB-C PD. It came with a 45watt "square" plug PSU, so if it's flat, my PD charger is the way to go!

There's also an adapter that you can get for USB-C to "thinkpad square plug" to free up a port when charging.. However it doesn't work if your Thinkpad needs even a smidge more than 100W at full load.

I tried a recent (AMD, maybe the Intel-based ones are better) thinkpad, but sadly had to send it back, in part because I was so infuriated that it refused to charge at all via USB-C unless it was turned off. The "square plug" was rated 120W, but unlike my Dell (which I wanted to replace) it would NOT throttle the system and instead simply refused to do anything with a low-rated power supply, not even "run but not charge". Even if I used the adaptor to connect via the square plug socket.

That is EXACTLY what this legislation should prevent. The likes of Lenovo should ditch their stupid square barrel plugs for good.

If this is "big government", it's big government focusing on companies, to the benefit of consumers.

We like that.

The USA uses the excuse of cutting big government to remove regulations on companies that protect the public... Anything that dents a companies profits must go! Sod the public!

We don't like that.

Now of course, you "reform" types love big government **when it goes your way**

I bet you'd love it for the UK to mandate a Union Jack shaped charging port, whose power output is measured in pints.

Yes, what a shame my govenrment decided to standardise on a 3-pin electrical wall outlet all those years ago. That was a waste of money and definitely did not help adoption of electricity or public safety. We should have allowed every electrician to use whatever excuse for a plug they thought the customer would put up with and invested in more firemen.

I'm sure Jacob Rees Mogg et al will be lobbying for the BS546 round-pin plug to be made the standard.

"The BS546 round-pin plug" Which one? 2, 5, 15 or 30A?

"The BS546 round-pin plug" Which one? 2, 5, 15 or 30A?

Plug it in and find out! If the pins appear to be too large for the socket, that's just a bit of thermal shrinkage and you need to use more force.

That's why there has to be a consultation!

India got its own Brexit in 1947 and is still using them happily.

They have those "wonderful" sockets where UK round pin, UK square pin, US, Auz (and other) plugs all "fit" - as long as you don't worry about the voltage or arcing...

I use them for stage lighting; no fuses...

I just redecorated one room and removed a 2 pin 5A socket from the skirting board. Must have been there best part of 100 years! And probably disconnected for over half of that.

Still find the odd bit of lead sheathed cable here and there under the floor. Get decent money for it at the weigh-in.

I'm sure Jacob Rees Mogg et al will be lobbying for the BS546 round-pin plug to be made the standard.

That's a bit too modern for JRM. I'm sure he'd prefer a system whereby you handed the device to a flunky who then used an amber rod and a piece of silk or a preprepared Leyden jar to supply the necessary electromotive force.

Actually those 15A plugs and sockets, due to their round pins and sockets, were really capable of handling 15 Amps; whereas the rectangular-pinned 13A system that replaced it is not good at handling 13 Amps.

Even the USB-C standard has it's problems with the poor quality cables on the market.

There used to be a problem with 13A plug pins that were badly cut, so they had burrs and ridges that prevented the socket springs making proper contact. I've not seen that problem for decades. On the other hand, there are a number of safety features that make them far better than the alternatives.

I hope there will be an exception for items charged from a shaver socket. I would rather not have to take my electric toothbrush etc. out of the bathroom every time I want to charge it.

If you want to charge USB devices in your bathroom, [1]suitable sockets are available .

[1] https://www.screwfix.com/p/knightsbridge-2-gang-single-voltage-shaver-socket-2-4a-12w-2-outlet-type-a-c-usb-charger-230v-matt-black-with-black-inserts/818py

Wow. Good to know.

How bloody much?

One of my devices, possibly my hair straighteners, came with a shaver-socket to USB-C adapter. Alternatively, a Euro 2 pin to USB-C adapter will work, and in many cases, a US 2 pin will work.

You have hair straighteners which are powered by USB-C? The 240W power delivery variant?

They charge via USB-C, so you don't necessarily need 240W PD.

Manufacturers are going to do whatever the EU requires as it's the larger market. Anything manufactured to a standard below what the EU and India require is probably going to be dangerous junk anyway.

Unless we're going to have stricter standards - which would limit the products we get - there's no point to even looking at this. If we do want to go the stricter standard route we could include require later revisions of USB Power Delivery (I think the EU only require revision 1). But as we're dealing with pre-existing standards there's not much flexibility beyond that.

So what is there to discuss here? Thanks to the lies and delusions of Leave we're now rule takers, not rule makers. Just copy and paste the damned regulations, and then spend our tax money on something we can actually affect (food standards) or that we want (healthcare and social services).

But don't waste our tax money by pretending we're somehow able to make rules anyone will care about anymore.

That, I'm afraid is a load of crap.

The UK is the sixth largest economy in the world, we have many standards that are unique and manufacturers are entirely happy to adapt to, and I can readily think of examples where UK standards are higher than those in the EU. Our product safety standards are amongst the highest in the world. I work in the world of regulations and standards, there's plenty of opportunity to share standards and we do that when it is feasible - it doesn't mean that we take every standard that somebody else issues.

As for "don't waste our tax money by pretending we're somehow able to make rules anyone will care about anymore", maybe learn how democracy works? A change is proposed that's pretty similar to EU arrangements, and you're not happy? Or is that you want laws passing without consultation with business and citizens?

But by all means, if you want to be a bitter defeatist, then feel free.

Fine words, but you won't put your name to them?

We are a large economy, but not large enough to sway things on our own. Manufacturers have made that pretty clear. I have no problems with higher standards - I offered an example (later revisions of USB PD), and said that it was about all we could do. I also mentioned that if we do have higher standards then it most likely ends up restricting the choice of goods we'll have. Something you haven't addressed, so that conversation is evidently not one you're seriously addressing.

As to our current high standards - many of those were due to EU membership. The UK often used the EU as an opportunity to put in high standards on the assumption that our businesses would be better able to adapt than other EU members' businesses. Whether that is true or not is debatable, but it's undeniable that the UK was often pushing for higher not lower standards within the EU.

The question now is whether or not we keep those high standards.

It's also undeniable that many of the leaders and funders of the Leave movement are of the "low regulation and and low taxes" view, and have made repeated assaults on our various regulations, to the point where they were pushing for Parliamentary bills to scrap every bit of EU retained regulation regardless of its merit or necessity. Remember that the very first bill that the Conservative government tried to pass after we left the EU was to lower the standards for waterways below that allowed in the EU. Shareholders have to keep getting their value, after all, and if our rivers and beaches are covered in crap it's a small price to pay for the comfort of those portfolio holders...

We are a democracy, and am quite aware of how that works - you have mistaken pragmatism for defeatism. I'm not saying we should accept the EU laws because they're better, I'm saying we should because anything else is likely a waste of our time and money. Something which again you've not really addressed here.