To crew, or not to crew – that is the question facing Boeing's stricken Starliner
- Reference: 1724428814
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2024/08/23/starliner_nasa_meeting/
- Source link:
NASA Administrator Bill Nelson and the agency's leadership will hold an internal [1]Agency Test Flight Readiness Review on Saturday, August 24. [2]The meeting will be chaired by the associate administrator of NASA's Space Operations Mission Directorate, Ken Bowersox. A televised news conference will follow at 1300 EDT to announce the decision.
Readiness review meetings are routine events within the agency and are an opportunity for participants to present dissenting opinions and reconcile them. However, this time around, things will be particularly tense, since the outcome of the meeting will include the agency's decision regarding bringing Starliner back to Earth crewed or uncrewed, as well as the next steps required.
[3]
The Starliner crew has enjoyed an extended stint onboard the International Space Station (ISS) while engineers have grappled with issues that cropped up during the flight. The abnormal behavior of the spacecraft's thrusters has been particularly vexing for the team on the ground.
[4]NASA pushes decision on bringing crew back in Starliner to the end of August
[5]NASA mulls using SpaceX in 2025 to rescue Starliner pilots stuck on space station
[6]NASA pushes back missions to the ISS to buy time for Starliner analysis
[7]Boeing's Starliner proves better at torching cash than reaching orbit
The flight rationale, including a new model to predict how the thrusters will perform more accurately, will be presented ahead of the review.
The decision is stark. Either the Starliner crew – consisting of Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore – will return in the capsule, or they will become part of the next Crew Dragon mission – Crew-9 – and Starliner will return uncrewed.
[8]
Both approaches carry risks that will need to be assessed. NASA has approved the Starliner for a crew return as a contingency but could well opt for an already proven and operational system in the form of the Crew Dragon for a normal return.
However, should the Starliner be returned uncrewed, Williams and Wilmore will be without pressure suits compatible with SpaceX hardware until the Crew-9 spacecraft arrives. There will also be inevitable disruption to planned ISS activities, and the Starliner duo will risk exposure to a greater dose of radiation thanks to their extended mission duration. ®
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[1] https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/leadership-to-discuss-nasas-boeing-crew-flight-test/
[2] https://blogs.nasa.gov/kennedy/2024/08/22/nasa-boeing-chart-course-for-starliner-return-review/
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2ZskGgQyKk6Q5QOr4FRGc1wAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/15/nasa_starliner_decision_end_august/
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/07/nasa_spacex_starliner_boeing/
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/07/nasa_pushes_back_iss_missions/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/02/boeing_starliner_losses/
[8] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZskGgQyKk6Q5QOr4FRGc1wAAAFE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[9] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Is almost like nobody read the lessons learned.
It might be an idea to look into making an adaptor (cardboard and adhesive tape might not work this time!). Otherwise they'll send pressure suits that haven't been tried on, with the risk they'll have to be returned for another size. :-D
Groundhog Day
Yeah, let's have this entire discussion again, just like in the comments for the previous article about this.
Re: Groundhog Day
come for the tech news, stay for the circular discussions :-)
Re: Groundhog Day
First comment *was* something about the "need to fit a square peg into a round hole" !
Avoiding standard docking and space suit adapters seems like a good way of wasting money and time
The thing that most surprises me about this whole mess is why NASA would ever consider that having a different design of docking adapter and space suit for each type of American vehicle that is to dock with the ISS was a good idea..
That the Soviet G2S vehicles would use different docking adapters and space suit connectors is expected: the two parts of the original ISS design were always intended to use differing docking ports and space suit connectors from the get-go.
However, it beggars belief that NASA would not have specfied a common set of docking adapters for all American spacecraft as well as common space suit interface(s), if only to save costs and re-implementation effort by basing these interfaces on than the well-tested Shuttle docking and space suit connectors. AFAIK those never caused problems throughout their useful life.
Re: Avoiding standard space suit adapters seems like a good way of wasting money and time
No, giving money to SpaceX was seen as a good way of wasting money and time.
REMEMBER: when this all started, Boeing was the shoo-in, and that goofy SpaceX startup was the complete waste of time and money.
Nobody expected SpaceX to actually ever reach Station.
It never entered anyone's mind that SpaceX would eventually have to rescue a Boeing crew.
The American docking adapters ARE standard.
https://www.internationaldockingstandard.com/
https://www.nasa.gov/missions/station/meet-the-international-docking-adapter/
American spacecraft, INCLUDING Shuttle, either dock to this, or are berthed by the robot arm to a standard pressure door, which allows larger cargo.
Suits weren't NASA's choice or requirement.
With Commercial Crew, NASA bought American rides to ISS.
These rides had to pass safety, and had to be able to dock/berth to ISS. Other than that, it was free rein. If SpaceX used Flubber or a magic carpet instead of rockets, NASA DGAF as long as it didn't endanger station or crew.
Neither Boeing nor SpaceX are required to use spacesuits, except as it solves the "don't endanger crew" requirement, and they were free to design whatever they needed.
Is there a 3d-printer on the ISS?
Note from the makers of For All Mankind : please don't use duct tape this time
Oh I don’t know, it sort of worked*
* for some definitions of ‘worked’
Doctor Who: WE HAVE TO SAVE THE GALAXY! HOW!
Adam and Jamie: DUCT TAPE.
(MythBusters in the US is still almost as big a cultural icon as Doctor Who, even this long after it ended)
"Best give Mr Lovell a call."
That's Captain Lovell USN (retd.) actually.
That is if you are referring to Jim Lovell of Apollo 13 fame.
Will the next supply mission include a consignment of double teflon coated, stain resistant underwear?
Given that it's Boeing I think the Starliner crew had them issued for wearing during the launch.
No good options
Worth noting that "NASA has approved the Starliner for a crew return as a contingency" can be translated to "in the event of gravity film like scenario (where the ISS must be abandoned), it can be used as a life-raft - better than certain death".
What nobody is mentioning is that the propellant leak on the way up might have continued adding to the risk - at some point a Boeing manager would have highlighted the growing risk to expedite a decision.
It's entirely possible that SpaceX has vetoed sending a empty suite since it might not fit, and insist they return on a Soyuz spacecraft instead.
Other technical questions include the software patch and reboot to allow unmanned disconnect.
Either way, Boeing is going to have issue a bond for uninsured liability: The Astronauts will not have signed a waiver for a SpaceX ride
Meeting and press conference on a Saturday?
What last-minute bit of data are they waiting for to make these decisions that the haven't had for the past 4 months?
Re: Meeting and press conference on a Saturday?
Enhanced computer modelling? Ground simulations? Engineers working on flight spare components?
Stop complaining and get in the contraption?
>>> NASA Administrator Bill Nelson and the agency's leadership will hold an internal Agency Test Flight Readiness Review <<<
Does this imply the crew is not being consulted in the decision?
Re: Stop complaining and get in the contraption?
The crew are professionals, certainly not idiots and will be fully aware of the risks and probabilities. I very, very much doubt that they will obey any order along the lines of ‘just get in, we know best, don’t worry your pretty little heads about it’!
Technically there is no ‘need’ for them to wear pressures suits for re-entry and landing, the Dragon capsule is fully pressurised. It’s a ‘well just in case’ scenario - see Soyuz 11.
It comes down to a risk analysis of the options available, return in Starliner, return in a Crew Dragon (sans suits) - I believe Soyuz return is out of the question because of the seat design, and also it can only hold thee people.
With this being such a public issue, they'd better be 100% sure before approving return aboard the Boeing capsule. If they do, and the crew doesn't make it back, NASA heads are sure to roll.
and pitch, and yaw ...
Saturday update?
Will EL Reg post an update on Saturday after the announcement?
So to be able to use their spacesuits they need to fit a square peg into a round hole?
Best give Mr Lovell a call.