Linux Mint 22 'Wilma' still the Bedrock choice for moving off Windows
- Reference: 1722249194
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2024/07/29/linus_mint_22_wilma/
- Source link:
[1]
Cinnamon 6.2 on its native X11 is the best effort to turn modern GNOME back into a traditional desktop in town - click to enlarge
[2]Version 22 is based on Ubuntu 24.04, which [3]appeared in late April . The beta version of Ubuntu Noble was delayed, and correspondingly the Mint blog [4]said in June that "there are many bugs in this BETA," followed by a summary [5]in the July post :
The BETA phase was very productive. We went through a total of 203 bug reports, it was intense 🙂
Welcome, Wilma
Linux Mint always has codenames based on women's names, and Wilma puts The Reg FOSS desk in mind of nobody more than Mrs Flintstone herself. Wilma Flintstone is the most sensible and level-headed resident of 345 Cave Stone Road, the calmer one who often gets her rash and sometimes wildly exuberant husband out of trouble.
This is not entirely unlike the relationship between Linux Mint and its upstream distro Ubuntu. Ubuntu is Fred Flintstone: Full of great ideas, sometimes unconventional, and a risk-taker. Canonical has experimented with its own in-house desktops, display servers, and packaging formats; it tried versions for phones and tablets. Even now that it's middle-aged and slightly more settled, it remains controversial. It customizes the GNOME desktop, with its own colorful theme, as well as a dock and other additions, and has its own app store based on its own packaging format. These are all things that upset some people.
[6]
Mint 22 also offers MATE, but it's the old version 1.26, not this year's 1.28 release - Click to enlarge
Mint, on the other hand, is Wilma Flintstone. Instead of Ubuntu's ten different desktop editions, it offers a choice of just three traditional, Windows-like desktops. All come in matching, plain, muted themes. (We particularly appreciate that, since in most distros which offer a choice of desktops, they each have totally mismatched themes.) Mint uses the open-standard Flatpak system for add-on software, but comes with natively packaged versions of Firefox and Thunderbird. It has built-in friendly graphical tools for backup and restore, [7]now including OS snapshots .
What's new in 22?
We looked at the [8]beta of Mint 22 earlier this month, as well as the standout feature of this version, the [9]Cinnamon 6.2 desktop . This release of Cinnamon 6.2 offers experimental support for Wayland, which in this release seems to work well. Of the three desktops on offer, Cinnamon has the best support for fractional scaling, and if your computer has two screens with a different dot-pitch – such as one standard definition and one high DPI – then Cinnamon on Wayland may be the best option, as it can set separate DPI values for separate screens.
The Xfce edition has [10]version 4.18 , but as we mentioned looking at the beta version the MATE edition still has version 1.26 rather than the [11]latest MATE 1.28 , released in February.
[12]
We really like Mint's Xfce setup, with single unified panel at the bottom of the screen - click to enlarge
Naturally enough, [13]Mint 22's release notes show a lot in common with its upstream distro. Both contain many of the same underlying technologies. They use kernel 6.8, systemd 255, and the new Pipewire audio server. Their shared version of APT supports the new [14]DEB822 format for specifying repositories, which splits one long line into separate stanzas. Mint removes and blocks the Snap packaging system, and the Snap-packaged versions of Firefox and Thunderbird.
Among Mint's own apps, the Software Manager has been tuned up. It's faster, and unverified Flatpak packages are off by default. You can enable unverified packages, of course, and then these apps show up – complete with a little red shield and a message that they're unverified, which is a worthwhile security improvement. Sadly, most users probably will need to enable them, because with them off, the store contains, for instance, no more Google Chrome or Microsoft Edge packages, because the copies on Flathub are not created or maintained by the vendors themselves. With only verified packages, Flathub's cupboard is suddenly bare, empty of anything you're really likely to want. This is a serious problem, as [15]Canonical's recent problems on the Snap store show . Mint's solution is drastic, seriously limits Flatpak's usefulness, and highlights the riskiness of these largely unmanaged app stores.
Since Mint's default IRC client, Hexchat, was [16]discontinued in February , Mint is moving to Matrix instead, via the [17]Element web client in a dedicated Firefox window. (This seems overly drastic to us – there are plenty of alternative IRC clients.) Google may [18]no longer care for JPEG-XL , but lots of others do, and the Mint 22's Pix image viewer gains support for it.
[19]X.org lone ranger rides to rescue multi-monitor refresh rates
[20]OpenBSD enthusiast cooks up guide for the technically timid
[21]Arch-based CachyOS promises speed but trips over its laces
[22]Linux kernel 6.10 arrives with punched-up hardware support
Pix, though, is a GNOME-style CSD app, with no menu bar. There are quite a few of these in Mint now, including the Software Manager, Calculator, System Monitor, and more. This grumpy old vulture deeply dislikes the new style UI, and we thought that the whole point of creating and using MATE and Cinnamon was to avoid it. We'd much prefer to see the Cinnamon version of Mint adopt all the MATE accessories wholesale to banish CSD completely.
Indeed, the same goes for the Xfce edition of Mint. There is nothing wrong with the Xfce desktop's accessories at all, but having the same consistent set of accessories would make more sense to us. Using the same Nemo file manager – or MATE's Caja – seems worthwhile. Mint's Xfce flavor is very conservative, and lacks modern enhancements such as the Docklike Taskbar, as [23]used in MX Linux and [24]Asmi 24.04 too . As we [25]noted about Linux Lite 6.4 , it's missing there as well.
This release of Mint still uses Ubuntu's classic Ubiquity installer, again avoiding a novelty from newer versions of Ubuntu, the [26]Subiquity installer .
Taking the Flintmobile for a spin
We tried all three versions in VirtualBox VMs. As the release notes warned it might, we found that the Cinnamon on X.org session froze up occasionally – even after giving the VM 128 MB of VRAM, as recommended. The Wayland version was stable, but has some glitches. For instance, the strip at the end of the taskbar, which under X.org hides all windows and shows the desktop, just like in Windows 7, doesn't work in Wayland and shows as a taskbar cogwheel icon. Windows don't hide, but while the button is "pressed" you can't use them, which confused us for a while.
[27]
Cinnamon 6.2 looks almost identical under Wayland – but watch out for the highlighted button. It's a non-working 'show desktop' control. - Click to enlarge
The Xfce and MATE editions were more reliable, although the Xfce flavor showed a similar issue to [28]our testing of Xubuntu 24.04 – sometimes, the first login attempt fails, and we needed to retry. All three editions took about the same disk space, some 11 GB. Cinnamon on X.org took 897 MB, while with Wayland it used 930 MB. The Xfce flavor idled at 814 MB of RAM, and MATE at 839 MB, on a fresh boot.
Although it isn't visible yet, there's one difference in this Mint release cycle. It will adopt [29]Ubuntu's LTS Enablement Stack , sometimes called Hardware Enablement (HWE). This means that they'll get newer kernels and X.org updates found in Ubuntu's LTS point-releases, which derive from the interim versions of Ubuntu. This is normal for Ubuntu and has been for a decade or more, but Mint traditionally stayed on the same kernel version that the LTS was first released with – just picking up Canonical's updates for that kernel version. It remains to be seen, but this may mean no more of the [30]Mint EDGE releases that the company put out for Mint 21 to enable users with newer hardware to install the distro.
[31]
The previous policy is going to impact some unsuspecting Mint users when they upgrade to Mint 22. As we mentioned when [32]trying the Ubuntu "Noble" beta , its newer kernel won't work with [33]Nvidia's legacy driver . Even users of Ubuntu's LTS release get periodic kernel updates from the HWE stack. Up until now, Mint users didn't.
[34]
[35]
This is from personal experience: Two of The Reg FOSS desk's Lenovo ThinkPads require the version 390 legacy driver, and their integrated Nvidia GPUs can't be upgraded. One of those machines ran Ubuntu short-term releases, and its GPU was knocked out by 23.10 "Mantic Minotaur." The other ran 22.04, and it stopped working in January when the LTS got a kernel upgrade. (We've pinned the old kernel on one, and switched the other to MX Linux.)
Users of Mint 21 are fine for now. It still uses an updated version of kernel 5.15, from when Ubuntu "Jammy" was released a little over two years ago. We expect complaints when they upgrade to Mint 22.
[36]
Speaking of 3D performance, this cynical vulture is not a big fan of performance testing. Back in the 20th century, we led an effort to port a complex Windows benchmark suite from 16-bit to 32-bit. The main thing we learned was that, given deep enough knowledge of contemporary hardware components, it was possible to accurately predict a benchmark score just from reading a hardware spec sheet. Saying that, we ran a simple [37]in-browser 3D benchmark under Cinnamon to test Wayland against X11. Wayland was 2.5 percent quicker. (As an aside, the host machine was 851 per cent faster, which is why gaming in a VM is a bad idea.) Cinnamon's Wayland support may be experimental but it's quick enough.
Still the Bedrock distro
Linux Mint remains the most sensible, pragmatic desktop Linux out there. It builds in drivers and codecs that are optional extras in Debian and Fedora; users of those distros need expertise to find and install these. It offers more pragmatic desktops, with the same shared, familiar, conventional design, than mainstream Ubuntu – or any GNOME-based distro, for that matter. It offers better tools for routine admin tasks, such as finding mirrors or updating, than any of the bigger-name distros.
Saying that, it's not perfect, and in places the competition goes further. [38]Zorin OS looks fresher, offers better tools for switching desktop layouts, and its developers are reproducing much of the same work in taming GNOME that Cinnamon does. [39]Linux Lite simplifies the desktop choice, removes the fancy cross-platform packaging tools, and also has handy admin and setup tools – even in the shell – and a more helpful welcome screen. Asmi, [40]previously called Zinc , has a bolder design, puts more effort into a better shell experience, and makes both Flatpak and Snap optional.
We reckon that the developers of Mint, ZorinOS, Linux Lite, and Asmi would all benefit from cooperating. For instance, on a coherent set of accessories with the classic UI, or a compatible set of extensions for Xfce, for example the [41]dashboard and [42]Docklike taskbar plugins. A shared repository with meta-packages of these would be a win. Perhaps they could even submit some improvements to the [43]Xfce panel profiles tool, such as [44]these modernized layouts . Over in GNOMEville, a lot of what [45]Mint's Cinnamon achieves just replicates [46]ZorinOS's GNOME extensions – and both do much the same as [47]GNOME Flashback .
We did see a few glitches, especially in VMs – we suspect there may still be a few kinks to work out in Ubuntu Noble. Cautious upgraders should wait for Mint 22.1, but for new installs, Mint 22 remains the best-rounded Windows replacement there is. If you have an aging PC that can't run Windows 11, this is the one to try. ®
Get our [48]Tech Resources
[1] https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/07/26/mint_22_cinn_x11.jpg
[2] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4731
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/29/ubuntu_2404_fed_40_et_al/
[4] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4728
[5] https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4730
[6] https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/07/26/mint_22_mate.jpg
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/09/linux_mint_timeshift/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/03/linux_mint_22_beta/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/24/kde_cinnamon_icewm/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/08/forthcoming_xfce_418_on_show/
[11] https://mate-desktop.org/blog/2024-02-27-mate-1-28-released/
[12] https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/07/26/mint_22_xfce_settings.jpg
[13] https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_wilma.php
[14] https://repolib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/deb822-format.html
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/28/canonical_snap_store_scams/
[16] https://hexchat.github.io/news/2.16.2.html
[17] https://app.element.io/
[18] https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/31/jpeg_xl_axed_chrome/
[19] https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/25/xorg_monitor_refresh_rates/
[20] https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/25/openbsd_for_the_people/
[21] https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/23/cachyos_arch_linux/
[22] https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/15/linux_kernel_610_is_out/
[23] https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/03/mx_linux_23/
[24] https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/15/asmi_2404_ubuntu_without_snap/
[25] https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/17/linux_lite_64/
[26] https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/22/distro_installer_news_roundup/
[27] https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/07/26/mint_22_cinn_wayl_highlight.jpg
[28] https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/30/xubuntu_2404_snapless_ubuntu/
[29] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[30] https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/04/new_linux_mint_versions/
[31] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Zqe8pTyv6CMLRjyyQ8V1ugAAAIU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[32] https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/15/ubuntu_24_04_belated_beta/
[33] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/legacy-gpu/
[34] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Zqe8pTyv6CMLRjyyQ8V1ugAAAIU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[35] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Zqe8pTyv6CMLRjyyQ8V1ugAAAIU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[36] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Zqe8pTyv6CMLRjyyQ8V1ugAAAIU&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[37] https://www.wirple.com/bmark/
[38] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/15/zorin_os_17_1/
[39] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/10/linux_lite_70_arrives/
[40] https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/13/zinc_ubuntu_remix/
[41] https://docs.xfce.org/apps/xfdashboard/start
[42] https://gitlab.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-docklike-plugin
[43] https://gitlab.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-panel-profiles
[44] https://github.com/mamgodev/XFCE4-panel-layouts
[45] https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon
[46] https://github.com/ZorinOS
[47] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeFlashback
[48] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
[Author here]
> Thunderbird comes installed and has a matrix and irc client, why not stick with it?
Exactly!
I mean, TBF, it is a bit heavy to be just a Matrix client, but even so...
My choice for a decade
I'm past wanting or needing novelty. I just want to get things done - mostly writing.
I've been running Mint for more than a decade. On a new system it's a 15 minute install, all defaults, just disable CapsLock and I'm happy.
Best of all is that year after year, version after version, it looks, feels and works the same. None of those "why in the hell did they do THAT?" moments.
I honestly believe that 90% of end users would be fine with an out-of-the-box Mint install instead of Windows or Mac OSs.
And as far as I can recall there gave been maybe two bugs ever that actually bothered me.
I honestly believe that 90% of end users would be fine with an out-of-the-box Mint install instead of Windows or Mac OSs.
I totally subscribe to that opinion.
We'll get there, with help from CrowdStrike et al. One fine day, we will get there.
But I'll be dead before that fine day happens.
Dead???
Wishing you a very long and happy life. FYI, Penguins are a notably long lived species, as birds go.
Re: My choice for a decade
Novelist here and I agree. LibreOffice on Mint does everything I, and my editor, desire. No bloat (unless I decide to bloat it), stable and easy to use.
All they need to do is sort out VR Gaming and I'm off Windows completely.
Hm...
" With only verified packages, Flathub's cupboard is suddenly bare, empty of anything you're really likely to want. "
Really? What do you want on top of the things offered in the Debian repository, on which Ubuntu and therefore Mint is based? Edge... is a pain in the proverbial (ok, I find it a pain to use, but hey, choice i in principle good). And Chrome? Why not chromium? Isn't that one packaged properly? Why not use a sensible browser like Firefox (I don't like Chrome, obviously...)
Re: Hm...
Except that Ubuntu repository is not Debian's it's their own.
Re: Hm...
[Author here]
> What do you want on top of the things offered in the Debian repository
Me personally? (Setting aside the issue of whose repo.)
Chrome, Skype, Slack, and Zoom all spring to mind. I may not like them but sadly I often need them.
The point is that there is quite a lot of proprietary freeware that runs fine on Linux. It costs nothing but it's not FOSS. Having it makes Linux much more viable as a general office/home PC.
I’m finally transitioning to Mint from Windows. Ad’s masquerading as emails in the new Outlook was the final straw.
Now if only I can get all my emails out of their pst file…
Set up an IMAP server, connect Outlook to it, copy all the emails across, then copy them into Thunderbird or whatever.
This might help.
Use the export mailbox function on Outlook online.
Gearwheel (top right) -> General -> Privacy And Data -> Export mailbox.
Wait a few days and you'll get an email link to the PST file.
Then use Evolution to import it directly to check.
I believe you can then export it to mbox format, and use Thunderbird "local folders" option to point to it.
Or do as the Humungous suggests in Mad Max 2 and "just walk away". I did that once...I exported a PST file and stashed it then never imported it anywhere ever again. I've never had to mount it to refer back to old emails...of all the people you'd imagine would need to refer back to older emails (I'm a support guy) you'd think I'd have to do it all the time...but turns out...nope! Never have done once!
It is amazingly liberating and freeing to just dump your baggage in the corner of a drive and never touch it again and start with a fresh inbox with no history.
I am 99.9999999% certain you'll never need your old email. The important threads you're currently a part of will naturally return anyway with people replying etc...
I'm dying to try Wilma, but now that I'm semi-retired my hardware park is down to one (1) laptop that currently still runs a ton of applications on Ubuntu 18.04. Yes, I do have USB harddisk space for a full backup, but I'm dreading the idea of simply nuking my only working environment entirely and starting from scratch. I'm going to have to bite that particular bullet sooner or later, of course, but the idea of not having any of my usual data, software or other component of my normal working environment available while I try to build a new one is a little scary. I've got everything in there from Ghost Spectre in a VirtualBox VM to Apache Netbeans. Trying to port all of that to the next install isn't going to be fun. I'd love to have a slightly safer and/or more comfortable migration path but I can't think of one.
[Author here]
> I'd love to have a slightly safer and/or more comfortable migration path but I can't think of one.
Backup. Backup again.
1. Move your home directory to a separate partition.
2. Mount your new partition as /home. Check it works OK.
3. Shrink your root partition, since it now has no data in it.
4. Dual boot.
Lots of guidance out there...
https://www.howtogeek.com/442101/how-to-move-your-linux-home-directory-to-another-hard-drive/
https://www.tecmint.com/convert-home-directory-partition-linux/
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Partitioning/Home/Moving
Or, y'know, if the budget permits, buy a spare laptop from Morgan Computers, or Tier1Online, or BargainHardware, or someone more local to you, and use it.
I used to have a whole home test/research LAN -- the kids on Reddit call such things a "homelab" -- for trying stuff. Now it's replaced by half a dozen laptops, and takes next to no space.
Alternatively, how about swapping out the SSD/Hard Disk with a new one, and installing on that - if the new install works/and is to your liking, keep that and put the old device into a caddy/USB adapter and copy across - If things go pear-shaped, no bother, put the old storage device back and rethink
I would always recommend the UUID= method in /etc/fstab as it saves a lot of hassle if you move the SSDs/HDs around and the /dev/sdx enumeration changes
Flintstones
So can we expect the next B release to be Betty (Rubble)? The debate must go on.
Re: Flintstones
Wait till they finish with The Flintstones and get to The Simpsons - when Marge to Mint will be Homer for Ubuntu
icon: Meltdown
Oh, the stereotypes of yesteryear
"Wilma Flintstone is the most sensible and level-headed resident of 345 Cave Stone Road, the calmer one who often gets her rash and sometimes wildly exuberant husband out of trouble.
Except when she occasionally lost her mind (most often along with Betty) due to "shopping fever" -- "CHAAAAAAARGE... IT!" Then it was Fred who had to pay the bill save the day.
Re: Oh, the stereotypes of yesteryear
Cat: I think in all probability, Wilma Flintstone is the most desirable woman who ever lived.
....
Lister: This is crazy. Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone?
Cat: You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation.
Lister: She'll never leave Fred, and we know it.
No Bedrock choice without KDE!
Everyone who wants to replicate the Windows paradigm (NOT WINDOWS ELEVEN, and no macOS contamination, but the UI metaphor of Win95/98/2k and eventually of Win7) should look for KDE, as I did. (Although MATE and XFCE can also be configured with a single, bottom panel.)
And Mint is the only mainstream distro to refuse KDE to its users. So this article is complete BS. Sorry, Liam, I appreciate you so much, just not this time.
And no, the "fix" for the increasingly wider screen is NOT a vertical panel. Also, the icons-only taskbar in Win10 and Win11 has contaminated KDE too, but I always switch from Icons-only task manager to the classic one. Why are people becoming so dumb all of a sudden? The best invention Microsoft has ever made is the Win95 metaphor, in which you see, without moving a finger, the titles of the windows of all active UI programs. Why would people prefer the macOS-style of plain icons with colored dots or underlines, which give you ZERO information?!
I'd also notice that KDE displays the captions on the taskbar much smarter than Cinnamon, MATE and XFCE: when there are only 3-4-5 windows, they're wider. In C/M/X, they're too narrow, regardless of how much unused space is available!
The only reason one would want to use the Icons-only task manager: when a vertical panel is used. Otherwise, it's just brain damage propagated from macOS to Win10 to KDE.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
When KDE was created in 1998, they tried to offer a Windows lookalike desktop for Linux with some consistency across applications, and that was good, even though it deterred many Microsoft sceptics back in the day who would have been more sympathetic with a recreation of the concept that didn't also copy the looks.
Today, KDE suffers from far too many options scattered across illogically and unsystematically organized menus. If I as a software guy and veteran nerd feel overwhelmed and disoriented with a DE, I'm not sure it would be a good suggestion for an average Windows user looking for an alternative.
Cinnamon, even more than Xfce or MATE, is a much easier and more logical transition from Windows, and operating it is much more intuitive for someone who just wants a classic desktop metaphor that looks decent and is easy to operate and walk through.
Linux Mint KDE used to be a flavour until Mint 18.3, by the way. It was droppped because it had "very little in common" with their then-present project, or so they said back then.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
"Today, KDE suffers from far too many options scattered across illogically and unsystematically organized menus"
I'm a bit puzzled by this.
Do you mean the application menu hierarchy? That's editable so the organisation can be whatever you find logical.
System settings - there are a few oddities but not many that strike me. I can't see why Appearance and Personalisation are separate but Users and Startup&shutdown really should not be in those but in System Administration. At first it does appear illogical that Applications is in Personalisation but it has to be remembered that this is intrinsically a multi-user system and different users may have different choices here.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
> If I as a software guy and veteran nerd feel overwhelmed and disoriented with a DE
I learned Pascal under CP/M, and I've used various Unices, so I'm not that young either. I don't feel overwhelmed with a DE. Maybe with systemd.
> I'm not sure it would be a good suggestion for an average Windows user looking for an alternative.
Considering the average Windows user a bit dumb is not nice, you know.
> Cinnamon, even more than Xfce or MATE, is a much easier and more logical transition from Windows
No, it's not.
> for someone who just wants a classic desktop metaphor
Not classic enough. MATE, with a single panel, as it's preconfigured in Mint, is "more classic" (so to speak).
Cinnamon, in my view, has configuration dialogs that make a terrible waste of lateral space. Yes, screens are wider than 20 years ago, but Cinnamon is so poorly designed that it gives me cramps.
> that looks decent and is easy to operate and walk through.
Try walking through Windows' Control Panel, and then say again that KDE is disorienting. I cannot find anything in Windows, and even the search results are confusing.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
[Author here]
> should look for KDE, as I did
No. I try it regularly. For me it is a confusing overcomplicated mess, but the deal breaker is that it does not honour Windows keystrokes. That, like it or not, is the standard.
Alt+space, X should maximise a window. Alt-space, C close it. Ctrl+Esc open the start menu. Ctrl+Shift+Esc, task manager or replacement thereof. Windows+R, run. Windows+D, desktop. Windows+E, Explorer. Win+(1-9) open the _n_th app pinned to the panel.
Even Unity got this right. Xfce does. MATE mostly does. KDE gets it all wrong and worse still has invented its own.
I want to see _one_ start menu, with config options, not 3. I want to see _one_ file manager, not a choice of 2 or more. _One_ text editor, etc. etc.
I want a global option to disable all hamburger menus and CSDs.
KDE is 26. It is time to grow up, and abide by existing UI conventions and standards, not keep on inventing new shiny and accommodating every developer who wants to add their own new app.
I want less, but working better and more compliant. KDE persists in offering more half-done options in each release, and for me, and for many Windows-alike Linux distros, this rules it out of contention.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
> the deal breaker is that it does not honour Windows keystrokes. That, like it or not, is the standard.
You are probably about 4 years older than I am. You have worked with EVERYTHING. Can't your memory muscle adapt to 2-3 sets of standards? How can that be? Your brain could accommodate Czech and other foreign languages, but not some keystrokes? C'mon.
> I want to see _one_ start menu, with config options, not 3. I want to see _one_ file manager, not a choice of 2 or more. _One_ text editor, etc. etc.
Speak for yourself. I want FeatherPad as a Notepad replacement, then I'm happy to have installed, simultaneously, Kate, Geany, Sublime Text, VSCodium, PyCharm, ReText, and more. Just in case. Sometimes, a specific task can be performed easier or better in a specific app, so I want to have CHOICE.
https://ludditus.com/2024/07/25/what-you-need-to-know-when-using-my-custom-almalinux-kde-iso/#8
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
I didn't know whether to up- or downvote this. On the one hand, I'm not at all a fan of KDE (too much bloat for me), on the other hand, I do very much agree with:
> The best invention Microsoft has ever made is the Win95 metaphor*, in which you see, without moving a finger, the titles of the windows of all active UI programs**.
And as you say, you can (and I do) get that with Xfce, and I suspect probably Cinnamon and Mate as well.
> I'd also notice that KDE displays the captions on the taskbar much smarter than Cinnamon, MATE and XFCE: when there are only 3-4-5 windows, they're wider.
You get that with the Fluxbox WM, which is my go-to set-up.
*Was that really a Win95 innovation?
**Especially with multiple workspaces, where you are less likely to have a zillion windows open on any given workspace.
Re: No Bedrock choice without KDE!
> And as you say, you can (and I do) get that with Xfce, and I suspect probably Cinnamon and Mate as well.
You definitely can, but it works better in KDE. It's better implemented, I'd say.
> You get that with the Fluxbox WM, which is my go-to set-up.
Fluxbox, Openbox, etc., are not DEs. At some point, I needed fixes for some tearing that appeared in specific generations of Intel graphics, and I could apply those fixes with KWin. So Lubuntu was out of the question, because it used Openbox, which couldn't care less about that specific hack.
Xfce first login fail
"The Xfce and MATE editions were more reliable, although the Xfce flavor showed a similar issue to our testing of Xubuntu 24.04 – sometimes, the first login attempt fails, and we needed to retry."
I've just tried an install of Mint 22 xfce under VirtualBox, and same as... the first login fails, and sometimes the whole X11 install locks.. Although you can get a login via ctrl-alt-f1 etc.
But. enabling 3D and setting the Video memory to 128MB seems to solve it.
Taking the Flintmobile for a spin
I hope you didn't have to drive it with your feet.
Have to admit I've been getting a bit grumbly about bleeding edge of Manjaro of late, particularly with the sound subsystems. Maybe should take a look at Mint again.
Linux Mint 22 'Wilma' still the Bedrock choice ...
... not just for for moving off Windows; from experience I'd also go with "most likely for most stuff (and installation in particular) to work out of the box on most desktop hardware".
Re: Linux Mint 22 'Wilma' still the Bedrock choice ...
Mint was always the "distro most likely to just work" on a laptop.
I just had to reinstall Windows on an old Windows Surface clone. To get the wifi drivers you have to go to their website and run a diagnostic tool to identify which wifi driver it needs - did anyone think this through ?
Honestly, why you lot aren't Gentoo plus System76's not yet finished Cosmic desktop is a mystery to me.
Migration update
Not that anyone asked, but I am mostly done with my migration to Mint (minus a few odds and ends that I'll get to in time), and I'm mostly happy with it. Along the way, I've upgraded my video card and motherboard, and I do have to say that Windows handled that process much more gracefully than Mint, which I had not expected (I expected Windows to BSOD and require a reinstall). When I dropped in the new Radeon video card, video in Mint was sluggish, so I tried to install updated drivers to no joy. Of course, it being Linux, the correct answer was to upgrade the kernel from the stock 5.15 to 6.5. While that process is infinitely easier than it once was, a deterrent to the average user would be the fact that Mint didn't in any way notify me that I needed to update the kernel, initially causing me to suspect bad hardware, whereas Windows detected the new hardware and downloaded and installed the correct Radeon drivers without user intervention. Not everyone wants their drivers automatically updated, of course (although I was certainly pleased), but I guess the Linux developer mindset is still that users need to know, without feedback from the operating system, that the kernel needs to be updated to incorporate new drivers.
There are other niggles as well, but Mint is certainly faster to boot and log in than Windows, and the lack of advertising and dark UI patterns makes them worth overcoming. Also, somewhat to my amusement, Linux is actually faster accessing NTFS volumes with the kernel-mode driver than Windows.
Thunderbird comes installed and has a matrix and irc client, why not stick with it?