Copilot+ PCs software compatibility issues left to you to sort out, with help from crowdsourcers
- Reference: 1720420214
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2024/07/08/copilot_plus_pc_software_compatibility/
- Source link:
"Copilot+ PC" is a term invented by Microsoft to describe PCs equipped with a neural processing unit capable of operating at 40 trillion operations per second (TOPS) – capacity the software giant believes will ensure the new AI elements Windows 11 perform at pleasing speed. The first Copilot+ PCs Microsoft announced used Qualcomm's Snapdragon X SoCs, which employ the Arm architecture – meaning the vast reams of code created for the x86 architecture that has dominated PCs for decades must either be ported or emulated.
Microsoft chose the latter course by creating an emulator named "Prism" that it claims can run software written for the x86 family on Arm – at such speeds that users will scarcely notice what's going on under the hood.
[1]
But that claim was recently contested by Samsung, which issued a [2]warning to Korean customers that its GalaxyBook Edge 4 Copilot+ PCs cannot run some common software – including antivirus apps and games.
[3]
[4]
The Register asked Qualcomm for comment, and was pointed to the two crowdsourced sites: [5]WorksoWOA.com and [6]Armrepo.ver.it .
We asked Samsung to comment on its advisory and the Korean giant offered no comment, but suggested we talk to Microsoft.
[7]
So we did – the software titan told us "Microsoft has nothing to share at this time" but suggested we read its [8]blog , [9]Windows-on-Arm FAQ , [10]software emulation explainer , and [11]another blog post about emulation . All repeat the claim that Copilot+ PCs are awesome and your existing x86 software will get along with a Snapdragon X just fine.
We also sought comment from the world's top five PC-makers – Lenovo, HP Inc., Dell, Lenovo, and ASUS.
Dell suggested we look at the same material. Lenovo suggested we consider Qualcomm's [12]guidance on compatible apps. ASUS offered no comment.
[13]The definition of an AI PC is now even muddier, helping no-one – not even AIs
[14]Microsoft cancels universal Recall release in favor of Windows Insider preview
[15]AI PC vendors gotta have their TOPS – but is this just the GHz wars all over again?
[16]A friendly guide to local AI image gen with Stable Diffusion and Automatic1111
HP Inc, also offered us a [17]Microsoft Learn document that offered a little more info, as follows:
An x86 or x64 app will not know that it is running on a Windows on Arm PC, unless it calls specific APIs that are designed to convey knowledge of the Arm64 host, such as IsWoW64Process2. Apps under emulation that query for processor details including metadata or feature capabilities will receive details corresponding to the emulated virtual processor. For compatibility reasons, the API GetNativeSystemInfo will also return emulated processor details when run from an app under emulation.
That info at least offers an insight into why an app might not run well on a Qualcomm-powered Copilot+ PC.
Finding out if the software you rely on calls the relevant APIs is, however, a community concern.
[18]
And understanding whether even those efforts will yield an easy-to-understand metric about how much code runs – or won't – on Arm processors therefore remains difficult. And it isn't helped by Microsoft using the measure "87 percent of the total app minutes people spend in apps today have a native Arm version" in its [19]literature . ®
Get our [20]Tech Resources
[1] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Zou4uQNOqs7YcLTsXgQlXgAAAQw&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/20/samsung_korea_copilot_plus_pc_compatability/
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Zou4uQNOqs7YcLTsXgQlXgAAAQw&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Zou4uQNOqs7YcLTsXgQlXgAAAQw&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://www.worksonwoa.com/
[6] https://armrepo.ver.lt/
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Zou4uQNOqs7YcLTsXgQlXgAAAQw&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/05/20/accelerating-innovation-a-new-era-of-ai-at-work-begins/
[9] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-arm-based-pcs-faq-477f51df-2e3b-f68f-31b0-06f5e4f8ebb5
[10] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation
[11] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation
[12] http://www.qualcomm.com/windowsapps
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/05/ai_pc_confusion/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/14/microsoft_recall_release_delayed/
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/11/ai_pc_tops/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/29/image_gen_guide/
[17] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation
[18] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Zou4uQNOqs7YcLTsXgQlXgAAAQw&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[19] https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2024/05/20/introducing-copilot-pcs/#:~:text=Windows%20now%20has%20the%20best,%2C%20Excel%2C%20OneDrive%20and%20OneNote
[20] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: nice measure...
MS Office is ARM-native, too, and for general business use, Office plus a browser is pretty much 100% of usage these days.
I'm very much liking my Surface Pro 11, but there is some caution required if you use older or niche software. Google Drive is a particular problem, and I confess I have no idea why they aren't releasing an ARM-native version, or at least fixing the initial architecture check in the code so it will run under emulation. I hate conspiracy theories, but the only thing I've heard that makes sense is that Google see WoA PCs as a threat to Chromebooks, and want to slow down its adoption.
GJC
Re: nice measure...
About Office: yeah, I thought I mentioned that one. The number [*] is weird and does not really add up (to me). Browser, Mail, Word/Excel covers quite a lot of ground as you wrote. I am really not sure if old business apps and new games stretch to those 13 percent of "app use time" that don't run on Arm (and not even have an ARM alternative!). I'm also not sure if Samsung is supporting Google, they do have the know how to make Arm-powered devices, and should not give a ... about the OS it runs. Additionally, WoA should be really good for them, as doing AI stuff locally would mean lots of storage and RAM, and Samsung makes those, right?
I'm also sure that MS cannot pull off the same feat as Apple did when they changed the processor type. Twice in the last 20 years or so. Both because it is MS and because Apple has a tighter grip on their ecosystem. MS still has way to many compatibility requirements it fulfils, and to be honest, I would be glad if they just stopped supporting ancient shite...
[*] I guess the measure is SIJMU - stats I just made up
Re: nice measure...
I've been using a Surface Pro X with Windows on ARM for my travelling machine for five years now, and for that sort of basic Office-and-browsing need it worked very well, but the new Snapdragon version is definitely a step up from there.
You're quite right, Microsoft won't do the same as Apple, but then they aren't really trying to, for the reasons that you state plus others, too. I think this is a good move forward and the first step in trying to divorce some of the legacy stuff from modern requirements, which is good. Previous attempts to release a pure modern Windows with no legacy were stillborn, sadly, which I think was a real missed opportunity.
I was having a chat with a friend over the weekend, who raised an interesting point in amongst all his normal anti-Microsoft ranting - it would be very nice to be able to turn off the Intel emulation stuff in WoA, and run purely ARM-native. That would give a great environment to work in, and some excellent first-line protection against about 95% of malware, too.
I agree on the 87% figure. It's a pretty meaningless statistic anyway, it could be measured in so many different ways, so I suspect they've just plucked a figure out of the air as a placeholder for "lots".
GJC
antivirus is no surprise
antivirus is no surprise. that hooks into things (to scan files on open etc.), scan processes in memory. etc.
Games? A few with anticheat aside you'd hope they run. Apparently they do with box86, box64 and wine if you're running ARM Linux.
"Microsoft has nothing to share at this time"
In other words, go away - we're not going to do anything about this and so long as people keep paying us, we couldn't care less.
All repeat the claim that Copilot+ PCs are awesome
When it seems that the architecture they have chosen is a shim built on top of another shim, which doesn't actually work as claimed.
What did you expect when it's Microsoft, rushing out software as usual to jump on a hype, and shamelessly marketing it as awesome when in reality it's half-baked?
PowerShell to the rescue!
Get-AppxPackage -Name "Copilot" | Remove-AppxPackage
nice measure...
' And it isn't helped by Microsoft using the measure "87 percent of the total app minutes people spend in apps today have a native Arm version" '
Ok, I guess that's browser use, mostly. And, since it is the internet we are talking about, people browsing for porn (hey, I'm not judging). Too bad the remaining 13% are what I shall refer to as "getting actual work done". Or maybe the 87% are mobile phones? So, basically everything that can be done on a mobile phone can be done on some form of Arm chip?
(I know I am being unfair - not to those browsing porn[*] - email clients and word processing can be done on Arm).
[*] callback!