It's all very disappointing. No one -- no one -- is even talking about the damage brexit has done. We have to suck it up because the votes of racists is so important to both main parties. With no one addressing the elephant in the room, what's the point?

But think of all the billions of Pounds extra the NHS is getting because we left....oh wait.

Throw in the fact in the next 10 - 20 years the majority of those that voted for the lie will be dead.

Most of the monies probably sucked by private sector adding huge mark ups to what they charge the tax payer for.

BREXIT was 8 years ago, it's time to grow up and live with what you have got, move forward and build the the future you want instead of living in a bygone age of nostalgia.

Brexiteers were warned at the time that it would suck the air out of the room for years to come.

Of course, they ignored that, assumed Brexit would be "done" over a wet weekend in 2018, and complained anyway when it wasn't.

@Khaptain - you're right, but Brexit still shapes policy to a huge extent. The mere mention of talking to Europe about trade deals, shared food standards, allowing young people free travel and so on is enough to send Brexiters apoplectic and they won't vote for any party that suggests a closer relationship with Europe. Our first-past-the-post system gives undue weight to their views (or, indeed, any extreme or populist views - that's why we had the referendum) and any party that suggested closer ties with Europe risks a wipeout in enough constituencies to lose them the election.

"young people" - why not everyone? This ageist culture needs to die off.

" BREXIT was 8 years ago "

Dude, Brexit was (it doesn't matter how many) years ago and the country STILL doesn't have a fucking functional customs system. You simply can't say "Brexit happened, get over it" when it is still creating exciting new problems, costing the British public more money, and... remind me of the benefits again? Actual REAL benefits, not those imaginary ones that the whole sorry mess was sold on.

BREXIT was 8 years ago, it's time to grow up and live with what you have got, move forward and build the the future you want instead of living in a bygone age of nostalgia.

Errr, no.

The Brexit referendum was 8 years ago.

Brexit itself was 4 years ago (31 Jan 2020).

We're still enjoying the trickle down of that (I'll leave it to the reader to imagine what - precisely - is trickling down on them) because Boris' "oven-ready" deal was anything fucking but.

If you need any evidence of this, conside that we don't have a working customs system, and further consider how many UK commercial pilots have had to go and buy a Maltese licence because their UK CPL isn't autmoatically recognised in the EU. It doesn't have to be Malta of course, but Malta has obligingly set up a deal where they'll issue a licence against your UK licence for the time being. Nice little earner. Total bollocks of course - reciprocation of professional licences for aviation, maritime, etc should have been dealt with during the Brexit negotiations. This is not necessarily a long-term strategy though and in the long run, UK pilots will have to get validated by EASA, which is an additional set of exams and tests. Expect to see the death of UK flight school and prospective pilots just learning in the EU and getting an EU licence. Why would you spend money on a UK CPL when it's no use outside the UK?

Realistically, we'll have rejoined some form of the EEA within a decade because no politician on either side of the aisle will be willing to continue trying to unpick all the edge cases that keep cropping up. Playing whackamole on trivial nonsense with our nearest trading partner is a waste of public resource in the long run.

The British people have lost their nerve, they have become completely subservient to the system and the politically correct. No one wants to rock the boat, the people have spoken and their words are unintelligible, it's as if they don't give a rats arse about being a nation any longer. And armchair warriors don't make a difference to the leadership.

Whether you be labour or conservative, nothing will change. Those at the top are only in it for the money, true leadership scuttled away a long time ago.

So basically the Brits have got what they deserve.

"The people have spoken"

That's generally how populist tyrants justify themselves. Here's a little reminder of the electoral statistics for Brexit:

48% against

52% in favour

on a 72% turnout. Which means 38% of the people of voting age at the time of the referendum voted in favour. Hardly a ringing endorsement from "the people" there. Subsequent polling suggests that 1 in 5 of those who voted leave now regret their decision.

We have yet to see a single concrete benefit from Brexit. Jacob Rees-Mogg when made minister of Brexit Benefits was unable to articulate anything beyond high wattage vacuum cleaners. Meanwhile, our rivers and coastal waters are now literally full of shit because the government changed water regulations due to the difficulty of obtaining purification chemicals in the post-Brexit regime.

It was actually 31 December 2020 if you take into account the transition period. So we actually left in the beginning of 2021.

move forward and build the the future you want instead of living in a bygone age of nostalgia.

Hear, hear!

Now, where is my pint of beer and 8oz bag of pork scratchings? Thank you kindly. And I'll be buying my petrol in gallons too while we're at it. I hope my new old-coloured passport arrives soon so I can take a well earned break in one of the Colonies. Huzzah.

"Living in a bygone age of nostalgia"

Wasn't that precisely the problem with a lot of the people who voted for Brexit? Living in some warm fuzzy imagined past of mighty Great Britain ruling the empire and beating the nazis?

@Paul 195

"Wasn't that precisely the problem with a lot of the people who voted for Brexit? Living in some warm fuzzy imagined past of mighty Great Britain ruling the empire and beating the nazis?"

Not really. It seemed the warm fuzzy imagined past was for the old protectionism and trade blocs of the soviet era.

"BREXIT was 8 years ago"

Is it 2028 already?

People don't want to talk about it. The Tories can't get any more votes out of it, if there are any they're likely to go to Reform. Labour doesn't want to reopen the matter and deal with "buyer's remorse".

But, after the election, I think you'll see gentle shifts in policy to try and mitigate the continuing effects. The inevitable Tory leadership election will show whether it still matters, or whether it was really was just "immigrants" all along. If you thought Truss was the worst in the barrel, think again.

The trouble is the four freedoms are central to all of the areas that could significantly improve our economy. Of course only one of these matters[1]. Joining the Customs Union will help in small ways, but for our economy to interlock fully with our nearest neighbours means we need to rejoin the Single Market. The UK (aka Perfidious Albion for a reason) seems to want to undermine the EU through explicit bilateral deals, but luckily they are dealing with very smart people in the EU, who are always nipping this in the bud (the recent youth migration scheme is a good example).

I think we'll get close again in time, but alas only after many more of the racists[2] (who are on the whole old, retired and infected with the view that Britain, really Ingerland, is exceptional) have died off. Until we accept Schengen we are screwed.

[1] Question to the brexiters, can you name the other three?

[2] I will not dignify these people with the term xenophobe, in part to stop them having to use a dictionary.

So those that voted democratically are now called Racists or Xenophobes?

Do you have a nice name like that for everyone that doesn't share your opinion ? You sir are one of the reason that division is becoming greater between the people. Instead of holding your hand you slap people in the face. Well done, you truly are "tolerant".

Why do you think that people can't vote for racist reasons?

[1]Since the Brexit vote, Britain has become a more intolerant place to live

Since 2016, when Britain voted on Brexit, racially motivated hate crimes have increased by a staggering 72 per cent and surged by 23 per cent in the 11 months after the referendum.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-referendum-racism-vote-leave-b2107377.html

@Khaptain

"So those that voted democratically are now called Racists or Xenophobes?"

Of course we are. So it was before the vote and so it still is. Back when the discussion was joining the Euro the same was said but also that we were eurosceptics, but that word fell out of favour because we were quickly shown to be right.

Just as the same dumb line 'there are no brexit benefits' falls at the first hurdle. Unfortunately the fanatics keep waiting for memories to fade and for the new bunch of gullible to come along and take their revised history.

Of course the EU is so amazing that they wont go there. Yet people still come here...

Just as the same dumb line 'there are no brexit benefits' falls at the first hurdle.

Here's the first hurdle: Can you name a Brexit benefit? Betchya can't.

"Just as the same dumb line 'there are no brexit benefits' falls at the first hurdle."

Please enumerate these brexit benefits for us. So that we have no excuse to keep saying "there are no brexit benefits".

Well, these people who don't share my opinion, and hate immigrants, now seem to want to get rid of the ECHR, because they see that as stopping us remove people they don't like. Brexit didn't work, because immigration is still high. So we have to find something else -- because it appears that the only thing that matters is stopping immigrants. Fuck the economy. Fuck our children's future. Sink the boats (wasn't that Sue-ella?). Just stop immigrants.

And you say I'm intolerant.

I think for some of then Brexit was always just the first step for getting rid of the ECHR.

Voting in a democratic election doesn't make the voter any more or less racist or xenophobic than they were before they voted. Look up the meaning of non sequitur .

"The inevitable Tory leadership election will show whether it still matters, or whether it was really was just "immigrants" all along"

The inevitable Tory leadership election will result in a lurch further to the right. Thanks to entryism at the membership level, it's a bad time to be an old-school, one-nation Tory.

I think there's a distinct possibility of the party splitting after the election. For an old-school one nation Tory they existing party might be seen as beyond salvage.

Starmer's utter capitulation on Brexit and pandering to Leave voters in the English [formerly] "Red Wall" and other regions- and to the "soft Tory" demographic in general (a la Blair) simply reinforces why I'm in favour of Scottish independence (*), and why Labour under Blair finally lost me in the first place.

Starmer's centre-right mockery of Labour isn't an alternative to conservatism in general. Quite the opposite, as a less extreme version of the actual Conservative party, it preserves it by acting as a safety valve against *their* most damaging excesses and reduces the risk of anyone more genuinely left wing getting in.

The idea that Labour is still left wing simply shows how far the Overton window has moved to the right- and continued to do so- from the 80s and 90s onwards.

I genuinely have no idea what Starmer thinks he stands for, let alone what *we're* supposed to think he stands for.

(*) Scotland voted Remain and hasn't returned a Tory majority to Westminster since the 1950s. If - as argued- Labour *has* to pander to an English majority of Tory-by-default voters to stand a chance of winning, that's the most damning argument against us remaining in the union.

I only wish Scotland could pull Northern England with them when they get their independence.

I'd rather keep Northern England and give Scotland everything in Westminster.....

I seriously doubt you can make a scot drunk enough to accept that deal.

Every time I see a "take us with you!!" comment, it misses the most important- and obvious point- Northern England voted Leave and swung strongly towards the (pro-Brexit) Tories in 2019.

You know, the things I just pointed out were inflicted on Scotland against what most of us here wanted.

So, even though your comment was obviously a tongue-in-cheek expression of (taken-for-granted) solidarity rather than a serious proposal, why would we want to take you with us, and why would you want to come anyway?

The North of England got what it voted for. It won. It showed those uppity metropolitan elites (TM) down south. What would they be trying to escape from?

Ironically, London- the big, bad guy in your "North Vs South" culture war you take it for granted we'll be your supporting mascots in, voted Remain and was far more strongly pro-Labour in 2019, even if their motives for doing so had nothing to do with Scotland.

So, no thank you.

Forgetting the fact that, to the British electorate, the way you eat a bacon sandwich is more important than actual policy, Labour has to win a lot of Tory votes to win the election. The way the new constituencies and electoral system is set up, for a given majority of seats in Parliament the Labour party has to win more votes than the Tories. Starmer needs a bigger swing than Blair got in 1997 to win in July. Don't forget the Lib-Dems - a lot of fed up Tories will vote for them instead of Labour. It's shit, but Starmer has to park his arse very finely on quite a few fences if he's not going to a frighten the horses and give us ten more years of Tories.

Our electoral history has always been its Labour's job to not lose and the only time they get in is when they use the "ming vase" approach (first used by Blair, now Starmer is doing the same)

This means a centre-right position.

Which always makes me wonder why a declared centrist party can't actually be successful.... but I guess it needs the die hard Labour voters to hold their nose and vote Blair/Starmer as well as swing voters - ie centrist plus left equals more votes than the tories.

Time for PR. Well beyond time for PR. End the sham that is British politics, make everyone's vote count!

Hopefully "Stop the Tories" will suceed with this (their plan is to use their weight to push on the next non-tories to give us PR)

Scottish independence would be good (hint - I'm Scottish), but why is the SNP so willing to keep shooting itself in both feet over and over and over?

Starmer's centre-right mockery of Labour isn't an alternative to conservatism in general. Quite the opposite, as a less extreme version of the actual Conservative party, it preserves it by acting as a safety valve against *their* most damaging excesses and reduces the risk of anyone more genuinely left wing getting in.

The idea that Labour is still left wing simply shows how far the Overton window has moved to the right- and continued to do so- from the 80s and 90s onwards.

I think this is where things could get interesting. I agree that Starmer's a 'soft Tory'. I think he's a globalist, and things could get fun if the rumors of Blair taking over the WEF from Klaus Schwab are true. On the one hand, we have Goldman Sachs country manager leaving, on the other perhaps the WEF's choice. Plus a snap-ish election is going to force Starmer to take a position, which is something he's never been good at. It'll be interesting what Labour says wrt hot topics like the economy and immigration. And then there'll be pressure from the more traditional Labour, most amusingly that Corbyn might stand as an independent in Starmer's constituency and Starmer losing his seat.

Also liked this bit from the article-

Backed by over £370 million ($471 million) in new government funding — the kind of small change Jeff Bezos might..

... spend on his yacht collection. Kinda puts things into perspective with the amount an individual can spend vs the government of a G7 member.

If Brentry had been so successful, the remainers should have got 60% or more of the vote. They did in 1975, before the EU robbed us of our duty-free allowances etc. etc. The truth is that most of us never felt particularly european, not when everything seemed so tilted against us.

Back in the 1960s, passports and other paperwork were fading away. Now they are back with a vengeance, a euro-vengeance. Are they really our allies? How much longer do we want to stay in NATO?

"the EU robbed us of our duty-free allowances"

- so that was why all those little white vans went off on the booze cruises? You could bring back as much as you wanted (unless it exceeded your maximum axle weight) and it was still cheaper than "duty free but airport price".

"most of us never felt particularly european"

- speak for yourself!

Back in the 1960s, passports and other paperwork were fading away. Now they are back with a vengeance, a euro-vengeance. Are they really our allies?

What you want is Brexit but keeping the advantages of what went before Brexit.

Ok, let's talk about the damage caused by Brexit, and EU membership generally.

EU membership required us to have open, tarrif free trade with Europe, but as we've discovered most of Europe (including Germany) actually outright ignores their own rules and pressures their regulators into turning a blind eye to an extent that would be a major scandal in the UK, which is why the US (that well known bastion of testing and consumer rights [choke, choke...]) ended up picking issues like the Diesel emissions scandal up instead of our own regulators.

The net result is that our own industries have been devastated by European competition, costing god alone how many millions of well paid jobs, as well as an influx of competition for jobs we have left from already trained EU workers basically eliminated any point of doing training for UK companies as it was cheaper to import trained people to jobs than train people. This had the result of trapping workers who's families couldn't afford to pay for their training in entry grade positions while suppressing their wages. That's the bad; the good is that it allowed cheaper luxury goods in from the EU.

Luxury goods are primarily consumed by the upper income portion of the population, who also benefit from cheap labour. The majority of the population on lower incomes found that situation something of a detriment and voted to change it.

Now the situation has been largely reversed, benefiting those on lower wages while making importing foreign luxury goods more expensive than the domestically produced equivalents. If your in the top 30% of the population then you certainly have the right to complain about that; but why would you expect that to resonate with the remaining 70% of the population?

Newsflash: outside of London Cocktail parties or the comments section of the Guardian saying "Your voting for something that makes you richer but me poorer! You are stupid racist scum, know your place and vote how your told, or else!" doesn't go down well. It's almost certainly not the sort of sales pitch that a political party wishing to see power would find it advisable to use. Especially not a political party called "Labour" which is supposed to represent the um, Labour.

Doing so during a period where the majority of the population (ie; the low paid part) is seeing the first above inflation pay rises that they've seen for about 20 years ( [1]spectacular rises in some occupations ) advocating for re-joining the EU and re-supressing their pay by increasing legal immigration and reducing the market for goods they make by increasing imports doesn't appear a particularly bright thing to advocate for, especially when re-joining the EU would require abolishing the pound and adopting the Euro, which would act to their detriment.

If you can't figure that out yourself unaided then I would suggest that you clearly have no business having any input into any decisions made on positioning for a political party that aspires to getting a worthwhile nationwide turnout. You cannot win with 30% of the population voting for you, while the remaining ~70% votes against you. Also; the poorer 70% or so of the population do not object to having friendly relations with the EU or Europe generally; as so long as this does not involve them being made poorer by government policy or any prospect of this potentially occurring. Hence allowing European goods into our market at more advantageous terms than ours are offered in their market is not likely to be a vote winner.

[1] https://www.cityam.com/lorry-drivers-wages-surge-more-than-seven-times-uk-average-as-firms-hike-pay-to-clear-worker-shortages/

"our own industries have been devastated by European competition"

They were devastated by *global* competition. FTFY. The UK car industry for instance was wiped out by a combination of globalisation and mostly Japanese manufacturers.

There are plenty of other, more significant, factors for UK's industrial decline. These include decades of chronic underinvestment, low productivity, shit industrial relations and a neoliberal boardroom consensus for short-term greed instead of genuine and lasting wealth creation, 60+ years of spectacularly incompetent/corrupt/stupid government also played a key role.

They were devastated by *global* competition. FTFY. The UK car industry for instance was wiped out by a combination of globalisation and mostly Japanese manufacturers.

The most popular ten brands on UK roads at the moment are in descending order Ford, Vauxhall, Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Peugeot and Honda.

The Japanese manufacturers aren't that significant in the UK; their 3 brands account for 3 of the 4 least popular brands in the top ten, and in any case their cars are made in the UK anyway as are Vauxhall's and (most) of Ford's. This means that half of the popular brands on UK roads (Volkswagen, BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Peugeot) vehicles are built in the EU and sold here with the money going abroad without any jobs in manufacturing in this country.

A tariff on imports (but not on things made in the country) means that cars actually made in this country become more competitive, and thus encourage people to buy them, resulting in more jobs in the manufacturing chain.

I'm rather inclined to agree with reference to there being plenty of other problems with the UK's industrial decline; but there is hardly any point in pretending that the rather serious issues that do exist aren't actually there. Failing to engage with these issues is by any objective standard the main reason why we ended up leaving the EU in the first place.

Article fails to mention his IR35 changes that help companies like Infosys who used to suffer from independent businesses undercutting them.

Otherwise why would he get such a low paid job?

People downvoting probably don't realise that IR35 rules don't apply to companies like Infosys despite having exactly the same business model as independent small businesses affected by this legislation.

Is the right news stories, at the right time, and they'll get in again. More stories of Channel crossing boats. More stories of hordes of Muslims. Foreigns, coming over here, taking your cookies. Throw in a couple of red buses with 3 word slogans and job done for another 5 years.

o War On Woke.

o Cancel NetZero.

o Defund The BBC.

o Fear Jeremy Corbyn.

... while at the same time actively trying to become a hostile environment for foreigners.

They want to attract global firms by having environment where IT workers have no or very limited employment rights, no ability to unionise and also relaxed rules for importing the workers from overseas (not having to pay the actual going rates).

Basicaly Tories want to turn the UK into IT sweatshop.

Can London go Independent from the rest of the UK ?

Whichever colour says they'll do that will get my vote.

Bring back the kingdom of Wessex and declare UDI.