Good news: HMRC offers a Linux version of Basic PAYE Tools. Bad news: It broke
- Reference: 1711453514
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2024/03/26/hmrc_linux_paye_tools/
- Source link:
Reg reader Pete Donnell alerted us to the fact that the UK tax authority offers a Linux version of its Basic PAYE Tools, which [1]the download page describes as "free payroll software from HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for businesses with fewer than 10 employees."
Sounds good. We were impressed to see that, alongside its Windows and Linux versions, there's also a version of the software that supports "Ubuntu Linux version 20.04 LTS and 23.10." There's a detailed [2]User Guide too, and more than one service status page, ranging from [3]rather dated to [4]extremely dated .
[5]
Of course, we wouldn't be writing about this if there weren't a snag. This story has been brewing for some time, but Pete told us that on February 5:
Basic PAYE Tools updated itself (per HMRC's recommendations), and promptly broke. I spent hours trying to fix it without success. The bug is definitely in the software itself rather than my setup: I installed a clean copy of Ubuntu 20.04 in VirtualBox, installed the latest version of the tools, and it still wouldn't work.
[6]First release candidate of Linux kernel 6.9 looks 'fairly normal,' says Torvalds
[7]Redis tightens its license terms, pleasing basically no one
[8]Cloud Software Group snubs GPL obligations, say critics
[9]Linux kernel 4.14 gets a life extension, thanks to OpenELA
Despite the service status pages not showing any problems, it's been broken ever since. He tells us that he's had the software set to automatically update for about 15 years, and it's never failed before. He's tried it on both Ubuntu 20.04 and a clean install of Xubuntu 23.10, among other things. Mac users [10]are also reporting problems .
Worryingly, Donnell notes that the software is seemingly written in Python 2. That version has been unsupported and dead for [11]just over four years .
[12]
We contacted HMRC and put them in touch with Donnell. He subsequently spoke with them, and provided them with some troubleshooting information. A month later, he let us know that nothing had changed yet.
It seemed like a welcome surprise to find that a government department not merely acknowledges the existence of Linux, but supports it and offers Linux-specific downloads … but every silver lining has a cloud.
[13]
If anyone else is using the PAYE tools and has similar problems or, indeed, if you have the software working or can help Donnell troubleshoot what looks to be a Python 2 and Django app, do let us know. It's a free download and he tells us that it fails before any form of employer's account is needed. ®
Get our [14]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.gov.uk/basic-paye-tools
[2] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/basic-paye-tools-user-guide/basic-paye-tools-user-guide
[3] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/basic-paye-tools-service-availability-and-issues
[4] https://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageNoNavigation_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_031142&propertyType=document
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2ZgL-KHoCSy2Ah11lCxfHnwAAANg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/25/kernel_6_9_rc1/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/22/redis_changes_license/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/21/csg_fails_to_honor_agpl/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/19/kernel_414_life_extension/
[10] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255234259
[11] https://pythonclock.org/
[12] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZgL-KHoCSy2Ah11lCxfHnwAAANg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[13] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZgL-KHoCSy2Ah11lCxfHnwAAANg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[14] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: "for businesses with fewer than 10 employees."
No doubt that will end up being one of the things that gets fixed ..... Compare what happened when BitKeeper made their servers and a limited version of their proprietary client software available to the best Open Source developers in the world. The ensuing reverse-engineering effort naturally delivered an alternative client that comfortably out-featured the paid version of the proprietary client software; and when BitKeeper tossed their toys from their pram, that in turn led to the creation of git.
Unfortunately, Python isn't one of my weapons of choice; but I do know python3 needs round brackets around the arguments to print, which always struck me as highly un-Pythonic .....
Re: "for businesses with fewer than 10 employees."
It's tied into accounting requirements from what I remember of running a very small company. 10 employees is the limit for micro-entities which only need to file abbreviated accounts each year and are not required to have them audited. Any more than 10 and it starts getting more complicated and you'll probably be using an accountant or payroll services company to deal with it.
Works for me on bare-metal Debian Stable AMD64
RFQ issued:
Requestor: HMRC
Requirement: PAYE software to support companies with 10 or less employees, must work on Linux.
Value: £EleventyBillion.
No surprise
When HMRC first issued PAYE Tools (as an alternative to the annual paper versions) they wouldn't work properly. Back then, I was running my own consultancy (not specifically IT focused) and, as an early adopter, I spent quite a bit of time liaising with them with fixes. To give them credit, they listened and took onboard my suggestions. Though don't ask me what they were - too long ago and I wound up my business 5 years ago (through choosing to retire and take a new direction with my time)...
Re: No surprise
You too, huh?. My new direction was going bust and spending a few months unemployed.
Re: No surprise
unemployed.
strategically available.
FTFY
I shouldn't admit this, but...
In a past job I was involved with implementing payroll software from scratch. Including PAYE of course. This story [1]makes me happy.
[1] https://youtu.be/kb20xhcrK4g?t=41
Locally installed tax software?
If only there was a way of interacting with HMRC's computers through some sort of remote interface allowing browsing through tax form pages.
Re: Locally installed tax software?
A pity they took away the part that allowed you to enter VAT return data every quarter.
Having spent a miserable year working on a Python based system, I'd strongly suggest rewriting it in a statically typed language. Perl code was hellish to maintain at times, but Python code is even worse in my experience. Both languages have OOP features tacked on as an afterthought, and their dynamic nature means tooling is always going to be poor. I know there's optional typing with recent versions of Python, as well as add ons to also support it, but in practice it's very ineffective and even an IDE like PyCharm is unable to do much with it.
Was going to pass this arcania by, but then I saw who you are and thought - what is my favourite American doped-out cat with a line in tall stories doing on a thread about the UK taxman? Did you buy the copyrights off the Brothers, or something? Maybe you can help me with my W-8 BENs?
Old news
Python3 has type annotations. Use those, and Pycharm starts helping you. Better still, Mypy can find your bugs just like a static compiler.
It can get a little tricky to correctly describe what you mean for very dynamic code, but the effect of that is to make you write more "classic"-syled code.
Might be worth detailing what the problem is? Just downloaded and used it with no issues on Ubuntu 22.04...
Since VAT returns were mentioned above...
Not for PAYE, but in case anyone is wanting to submit VAT returns using a (Python 3.7+) command-line tool: I'm the author of https://hmrc.readthedocs.io which provides a handy API and command-line interface for the VAT portions of HMRC's APIs. Try "hmrc vat login" followed by "hmrc vat obligations --all" and "hmrc vat return
"for businesses with fewer than 10 employees."
Why is there a [1]limit of 10 employees ? If it works for 10, why not 11 ?
[1] https://www.gov.uk/basic-paye-tools