For my sins, I worked at a traffic controller company for a couple of years.

The majority of traffic controllers, especially outside big cities, use 2G or 3G for remote monitoring and optimisation (control is always local, no 'italian job' possible, but they do rely on timing adjustments to optimise throughput). If a grey controller cabinet has two round or square black plastic blobs on it, one will be a GPS antenna just for an accurate clock, and the other is a 2G/3G antenna.

If the 2G/3G were to go away, then the local council's traffic controls maintenance dept would have no info except complaints from the public about borked signals, and optimisation along long roads would suffer slightly. Probably enough to cause congestion though.

" Probably enough to cause congestion though. "

In the brief time when I listened to Eagle radio from Guildford (before Bauer took it over and broke it), I used to be amused by the evening traffic report and the number of times there was heavy congestion around the Clock House roundabout in Farnborough. At the time, twenty years since I'd been there, and it was still causing traffic trauma...

"At the time, twenty years since I'd been there, and it was still causing traffic trauma..."

Only to the extent tolerated by motorists.

still lots of traffic around the clock house round about, but there are no traffic lights there.

a mess is the Queens (hotel) roundabout where they have put traffic lights which are totally unneeded

another mess is alexander road leading to Lynchford road where they have put in an unnecessary bus lane, removed parking from 1 side, narrowed the road on the other and put in zebra crossing at the junction to the roundabout that is barely a car length from the roundabout making the roundabout exit to alexander road dangerous to pedestrians

the bigger mess is the Lynchford road going to the a331 where they have caused huge disruption, digging up the road, laying it back with no discernible improvement.

70 weeks and £13m that could have been spent on other better things plus the extra pollution and delays for nothing.

https://www.hampshirelive.news/news/hampshire-news/north-camp-businesses-feel-misled-8826713

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66553873

The original plan was to widen it westbound into two lanes. They cut down a load of mature yet sound trees and started work.

Then they realised that there was not enough room without taking at least 1.5m of the road away on the other side and shifting it all over. So they went back to replacing the main sewer that runs under the westbound carriageway and... 70 weeks later the road is still closed westbound (or was last weekend).

Another example of the lack of joined up thinking by Government, Local Government and companies. Just like the smartmeter fiasco.

All those lovely smartmeters that use 2G/3G are going to have to be replaced. Guess who is going to pay for it? Yep, we are.

turning off 2g and 3g where there's no decent 4g let alone 5g is a recipe for disaster. I'm sitting here now with barely a signal registering on a 2g phone so I use phone semaphore most of the time but it's nice to know that, as it's also used as an emergency phone with the best signal, when 2g is completely turned off we'll be totally buggered ...

Basic premise of any system replacement is to install the replacement before killing the existing service to customers. So much for that idea.

My primary phone has a 5G sim in it, and there's still lumps of Lincolnshire where it's on 2G *nods*

there's still lumps of Lincolnshire where it's on 2G

There's still lumps of Lincolnshire where it's on runner with cleft stick

That's Boston. As the joke goes, you know what Boston got in the late 70s? A road out...

" turning off 2g and 3g where there's no decent 4g let alone 5g is a recipe for disaster "

Indeed.

Had to call the doctors this morning on my way to work. For most of the journey I spent most of my time on 3G. Even at points when I managed to speak to the rottweiler receptionist "care navigator" I was in an area of only 2/3 bars on 3G.

It's a bloody joke that the mobile network in this country, with more and more things depending on it, isn't treated as an essential utility. Maybe when this shit show begins someone will take notice and make it happen. My breath won't be held for it though.

I type this on a 3G signal because the 4G signal here in my Cambridge office is unworkable. I've had to force my Galaxy S23 Ultra to 3G only because it will cling to 4G despite zero bars signal and will give me "no internet" errors, yet the 3G signal is 3 out of 4 bars and works just fine. FFS. A situation repeated in several cities and towns. I can't change the phone's affinity for network types - probably set by the network itself.

" a recipe for disaster "

The recipe book is replete with disasters. Turning off POTS will disable huge numbers of devices such as vulnerable person alerts and burglar alarms, and will render emergency comms only available while mains power is up and running, unless folks buy massive UPS devices (which incidentally often don't work well over long periods with small loads). Furthermore, nG connectivity (regardless of the n in question) is not assuredly available everywhere or at all times. The opportunities for adverse consequences are huge.

However the 'powers' believe that "everyone" will have continuous reliable access to high tech comms without question, which is why the NHS recently decided that the only way to book a medical appointment is via an online portal, thereby excluding any sick person without access to (or ability to use) a computer. You're on your own now unless you're "up to date" and not disabled.

The _idea_ is that the 3G signal will be replaced by a 4G signal. So you'll go to bed with a 3G signal one day, and wake up with an "improved" 4G signal the following day. Same mast in use, same frequency in use, just different protocol on top of it.

That's only of use if there's any form of signal at all.

The vast majority of the city closest to me (Chichester - ok, it's more of a small town than a city...) has no signal whatsoever (from EE at least), and what there is is very slow.

This has the smell of "lessons to be learned" all over it.

Either that or lessons will be learned.

Maybe it's a case of one in a thousand years events coming along every thirty years or so.

I think the landline switch off is going to be the next big screw up. They have already started to switch it off in some parts and it is already proving to be as poorly planned as expected.

Old people who use telephone connected services like LifeAlert were meant to contact Openreach beforehand to let to know so that they could delay the switch off in their area giving people time to find an internet connected alternative.

But nobody seems to actually know that the POTS landline service is being switched off so nobody has contacted Openreach.

The Telecomms industry has started to get its act together as Ofcom is, for now, leaving it mostly to the sector to sort out - look for Fit to Switch - but a lot of companies, when told about it, are parking the issue as 2025 seems far away...

"2025 seems far away"

Yes, but presumably that excuse will start to fizzle out in 11 days time.

Even for those of us who know POTS is going to be switched off it's quite obscure as to when in any given area.

BT switched me over to 'Digital Voice' a few months ago.

Give them their due, which I wouldn't normally, they e-mailed me a few times and sent me a letter explaining exactly what was happening and to contact them if I had any of x,y,z things to worry about.

From what I remember all the text was pretty clear about what to do and what the consequences would be if I didn't take action if I needed to.

Also got a voucher for a converter for extensions or hefty discount off a new cordless phone from the BT Shop.

I just plugged my existing one into the back of the SmartHub though and all was fine.

If you've tried to sign up for new broadband recently, it if includes phone, you are usually being asked do you have an emergency alarm, house alarm etc. etc. as a check.

This has the smell of "lessons to be learned" all over it.

So many lessons to be learned, so little actual learning.

I thought Smart [sic] meters used 2G. And what, I wonder, do pacemaker monitors use?

I've always found the "generation" thing a bit odd. Back when TACS was introduced BT's existing car-phones were called System 4 so I assume they were the 4th generation, TACS became the 4th and the first GSM phones 6th.

I thought Smart [sic] meters used 2G. And what, I wonder, do pacemaker monitors use?

Mine says 4G when connecting. Possibly because 5G is still a bit spotty inside the house.

I think "everything analogue" was lumped under the 1G moniker, even though it actually represents dozens of incompatible technologies, when somebody decided that the first digital mobile service would be "the second generation".

No, they only started counting from the first digital, GSM. Obviously the marketing folk involved only had digital memories

TACS, like its predecessors in the UK was analogue but it was the first truly cellular system in that a handset could transfer from one base station to another in mid-call which the early versions couldn't. That allowed for more and smaller service areas, the cells.

" No, they only started counting from the first digital, GSM "

...uh...yeah, isn't that pretty much what I said?

GSM is 2G and that's when the counting started (and everything before was lumped under "1G").

I'm old enough to remember selling and using System 3 handsets. They were installed in such cars as Prince Charles' Aston Martin**, and 'one' had to ask the operator to connect you as there was no direct dialling back in those days.

It's amazing how far technology has improved over my relatively short lifetime.

(** Positive earth vehicle, so the transmitter had to be mounted in a wooden box in the boot. It was made by Mobira Oy, which eventually became Nokia IIRC)

Please get it right: 'one' had to ask the operator to connect you one. "You" simply wouldn't have been U.

System 4 was subscriber dialled. It coexisted with TACS for quite a while.

TACS = 1G (Analogue), GSM = 2G (Digital + SMS), 3G (added the data only channel to 2G), 4G (LTE, faster data that can also handle calls & messaging), 5G (even faster data).

4G coverage is shocking given that it has been "out" for over 10 years. Perhaps OFCOM needs to step in and state that the networks cannot switch off 2G or 3G in each area until they can prove that all users in that particular area can get a usable 4G signal at a minimum. That would motivate the networks to get their shit together and sort out their coverage. As for those still relying on 2G/3G coverage for infrastructure, you need to get your fingers out of your collective rectums and get a move on. I still don't understand why that kind of data cannot be sent over the power lines. If it's low enough bandwidth it's not going to cause much RFI if any, and the power supply infrastructure isn't going to go away until cold-fusion becomes a reality.

Cars that have an app to remote control functions like the heating, use a modem to provide comms to the manufacturer's cloud server.

Many of these modems are 3G or even 2G and are NOT forward-compatible!

Anyone think the car makers will offer an upgraded modem for an older car? I didn't think so.

Isn't there a requirement for all new cars to be connected (along with all the other mandated 'helpful' driver aids)? What system do they use?

I've just had to replace the 3rd-party trackers in our cars. They were 2G/3G only, which I'd forgotten about until I had to pull one to check the battery.