Raspberry Pi 5 revealed, and it should satisfy your need for speed
- Reference: 1695880809
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2023/09/28/raspberry_pi_5_revealed/
- Source link:
Originally aimed at hobbyists and educators, the Raspberry Pi has evolved into a serious bit of kit over the years despite its diminutive size. The latest generation has continued that evolution into a machine that can chew through most productivity workloads while retaining many of the expansion options beloved by its customers.
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However, elements have also been dropped, and the architecture remains more evolutionary than revolutionary.
First, the good news. Performance is impressive when compared to previous generations. According to the Raspberry Pi team, the device, which features a 64-bit quad-core Arm Cortex-A76 processor running at 2.4GHz, represents a 2-3x increase in CPU performance compared to the Raspberry Pi 4.
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The graphics are also improved thanks to an 800MHz VideoCore VII GPU. Sure, it won't set racing the hearts of users more used to exotic Nvidia kit, but it does make for a decidedly smoother experience otherwise.
Also swifter is storage thanks to support for the high-speed SDR104 mode, meaning a potential doubling of peak SD card performance – but you'll need to make sure you buy the right SD card to use it. A single-lane PCI Express 2.0 interface is also available, although you'll need an adapter.
Another notable improvement is the inclusion of a real-time clock, but you will have to provide your own battery solution. This is a boon for customers needing to run disconnected for long periods, although third-party options are available for previous generations if needed.
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The team said: "For the first time, this is a full-size Raspberry Pi computer using silicon built in-house at Raspberry Pi."
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Indeed, there has been somewhat of a step change in performance; even the dedicated two-lane MIPI camera and display interfaces of the past are now replaced by a pair of four-lane 1.5Gbps MIPI transceivers.
However, there is some bad news to stir into the pot. The audio and composite jack has been ditched. According to Pi supremo, Eben Upton, this was due to space constraints on the board. As for what users requiring composite functionality should do, Upton told us: "For composite video, you can see there is a pair of 0.1" pads on the bottom edge."
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The news is less good for fans of audio from the deleted jack. He went on: "There's isn't a recommended solution for audio, other than to use either a USB audio device or HAT."
The price has also increased slightly – $60 for the 4GB version and $80 for the 8GB incarnation – and RISC-V is conspicuous by its absence. You'll also need to invest in a new case – the ports have been moved – and the Pi 5 has no cooling tech out of the box.
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Upton put the price uplift down to a slight increase in manufacturing cost and a general rise in component prices – other than SDRAM.
The lack of cooling will raise an eyebrow or two, considering how warm the Pi 4 tended to get. The previous generation could be run without a cooling solution, yet sometimes the CPU temperature would soar and hit performance.
Although our review sample came with a separate cooler and fan, the Pi 5 appears to have improved matters temperature-wise. In an admittedly subjective test that involved hammering the hardware with s-tui , stress and firing up a few productivity applications, the CPU temperature climbed to just over 80˚C but went no higher.
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Upton said this was due to the updated architecture. He told The Register : "BCM2712 is on 16FFC, so definitely a big improvement in specific energy versus the 28HPC we used for BCM2711. Cortex A76 reputedly has better energy per instruction iso-process, so those two things stack together to give quite a significant improvement for a given workload.
"Which we then more than spend, in terms of peak power, by being able to do a lot more stuff."
Upton also noted that he tended to run the hardware without active cooling.
Availability
Users of the Pi 4 will also remember the [9]aggravation around USB-C power . Lessons appear to have been learned, and Upton told us that the diminutive computer was subject to intensive testing. It will, however, be interesting to see what happens this time when the hardware – which has increased in complexity – hits the wider community. Upton said 100,000 units should be available at launch - scheduled by the end of October - with more to hit the channel in subsequent months.
He said the Pi 4 was "back in a decent stock position," although we've found tracking down all varieties still tricky. He said the pipeline – components and manufacturing – would be good for "roughly" one million units by the end of January.
According to Upton, the balance of the two configurations available has "probably" shifted slightly toward the 8GB variety. The combination presents some intriguing possibilities. The Raspberry Pi OS – now based on Debian "Bookworm" – has been sprayed with updates to handle the hardware changes, although users of the Pi 4 will also see benefits. Some enterprising users have also managed to get other operating systems running on previous generations – most notably Windows on Arm.
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The RPi 4 model B alongside our review sample of the Raspberry Pi 5
While Microsoft has yet to officially support efforts to get Windows 11 working on the device, Upton praised the enthusiasts who had coaxed the software giant's flagship operating system to life on the platform. The additional horsepower available on the Pi 5 could change the experience from being a novelty for hobbyists to something more usable.
[11]Linux on the Arm-based Thinkpad X13S: It's getting there
[12]Tinker Tailor Soldier Pi? Asus's 'NUC-sized' SBC aims to out-Pi the Raspberry
[13]Raspberry Pi production rate rising to a million a month
[14]Sony Semiconductor sinks Simoleans into Raspberry Pi to advance edge AI
Upton said: "It's been impressive to see people getting Windows up and running. Lots of very ingenious stuff going on there."
As for official support, he said: "That would be a question for Microsoft: we'll certainly support them if they're interested. Historically the issue with 'real' Windows support on Raspberry Pi has been a lack of DirectX drivers."
Implementing DirectX on top of Vulkan would be immensely beneficial, considering the recent investments made by the Pi team.
Some omissions will also vex users, particularly those hopeful of a RISC-V implementation.
Upton told The Register that little consideration had been given to the architecture this time around, noting issues around maturity in the software stack and a lack of "competitive" licensable cores as factors. He said: "A new architecture has to overcome significant barriers to gain acceptance."
However, he also said: "Never say never."
After a week of using the device as a primary computer, we can confirm that the extra performance is most welcome. Yes, we've not been brave enough to run things for any length of time without a cooler, no matter what Upton says – call it Pi 4 PTSD. That said, if you need one, then a cooler is unlikely to break the bank.
As far as stability is concerned, during the time we've had with the review sample we've experienced one occasion where the device froze and required a hard reset. We'll monitor this over the coming weeks and report back if this reoccurs. Otherwise, the Pi 5 put up with the day-to-day abuse of being the primary computer with aplomb.
Getting another case is irritating, although this hack at least has enough Lego in the house to deal with the issue. The price increase might also irk as the Pi 5 is now quite some way from what the first iterations cost. While it can be excused thanks to other improvements, the device is not quite the bargain it once was, which might put off impulse buyers.
Overall, the Pi has evolved into a very useable computer. Upton told us the next generation Compute Module should be along in 2024 but wouldn't comment on other form factors. Updating the Pi-400 hardware would undoubtedly make for some intriguing possibilities and Upton noted that storage speeds in future versions might be further increased through the use of SD Express, "but that standard didn't mature in time for this generation."
And with the European Space Agency having recently updated its Raspberry Pis on the International Space Station – and more hardware due to arrive later this year – could we see a Pi on the Moon before long?
"No comment." ®
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[1] https://regmedia.co.uk/2023/09/27/rpi5.jpg
[2] https://regmedia.co.uk/2023/09/27/rpi5b.jpg
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2ZRVOxDi7Oa@iNsv0qj6KAgAAAIM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://regmedia.co.uk/2023/09/27/rpi5_csi_dsi.jpg
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/personaltech&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZRVOxDi7Oa@iNsv0qj6KAgAAAIM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
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[9] https://www.theregister.com/2020/02/21/pi_4_fixed/
[10] https://regmedia.co.uk/2023/09/27/rpi4_vs_5.jpg
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/08/linux_on_the_thinkpad_x13s/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/11/asus_nuc_tinker_3n/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/05/raspberry_pi_shipments_rise/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/14/sony_semiconductor_raspberry_pi_investment/
[15] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Pi on the moon
I ate one of those yesterday!
For those readers unfamiliar with Moon Pies… they’re sort of like a cross between a Wagon Wheel and a Cadbury’s swiss roll. I’m sure someone else can offer a better comparison.
Re: Pi on the moon
I cannot recommend watching The Green Mile for imaginative use of a Moon Pie. But It does appear I might have mentioned it, all the same.
Re: Pi on the moon
"a cross between a Wagon Wheel and..."
Does that mean it keeps shrinking?
Lost the plot
No open sourced RISC-V processor? Not interested.
And courting Micor$oft...??
Does he not know his customer base at all?
Re: Lost the plot
It’s an ARM ecosystem. Of course they are not going to break their line of compatibility for feeble RISC V cores.
If they do a RISC V then I expect it will be a separate parallel line, but Pi V development has been several years and £15 million so I doubt they have the capacity yet.
Their customer base are generally not interested in windows but many are. Fortunately most are mature enough to be tolerant of other interests.
Re: Lost the plot
Oh yes, because tolerance of the M$ cuckoo has always worked so well in the past . . . anyone here remember netbooks?
Re: Lost the plot
M$ is just another O/S option on the Pi, allowing customer choice is a good thing.
Re: Lost the plot
"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" -- Just give Microsoft the raspberry and keep the Pi pure and open.
Re: Lost the plot
Does he not know his customer base
The clamour for stock over the last year or so suggests they do.
Personally, I think the Pi Zero 2 is probably the pinnacle of the original concept and that the Pico is actually a better fit (or would be with better support) for many of the low-cost IoT applications for which the PI was originally touted. I find the later Pi models to fall between two stools - too expensive for tinkering and too many compromises for high-end performance. But I presume people are not buying them in large numbers simply to stuff in drawers, so I'm happy to accept I'm a (small) outlying data point.
Re: Lost the plot
It seems there's a Pi to suit every level of performance, and/or wallet. It's easy (and cheap) enough to start with a Pi3 and go up or down to find the level of performance that your project requires.
For £5 more than a Pi4, the Pi5 offers significantly more performance and expansion potential, but if that's not required then the Pi4 may still be the better option. I run a headless Pi4/8GB booting from nvme and that's perfectly fine for my needs, maybe I'll take a look at Pi5 once the software and hardware (HATs) has matured.
I personally find the Pico support to be exemplary.
Re: Lost the plot
Prolly not a realistic option until they offer _at least_ a 16GB version. When there is a lot of bleating for more memory, that will signal the start of the Winpocalypse.
I can't wait for it to come out and be out of stock immediately, and out of stock for the next 10 years.
Yes, ironically I've finally got my hands on a Pi 4 - not the one I ordered back when the world was young and was never delivered. As for power supply - I'm still waiting for that, thanks to Amazon's complete inability to deliver and order and a correct locker code at the same time. (Yet more business Amazon lost to eBay.)
PS If Jamie from The Pi Hut is reading this: 1. It gets thoroughly annoying having everyone who sells something following up with an email touting for feedback/reviews 2. Try looking at your email in plain text and decide if that's the impression you really want to give 3. Opt-out on emails that were never requested is BAD. 5. Spamming from No-reply addresses is WORSE. 6. Note to self - never order from Pi-Hut again.
Meanwhile, I have just given Morgan Computers (anyone else remember their original Morgan Camera Company shop on Tottenham Court Road?) seventy quid for a second-hand HP PC with 3GHz quad core processor, 8GB RAM, a 256GB SSD and lots of connectors, including audio.
Horses for courses...
Will it velcro to the back of your TV to provide silent streaming from the interwebs?
Probably not. But then neither will the Pi4 in my experience. It just doesn't have enough pull to be used to stream video at even 1080p, never mind 4k. The user experience is absolutely appalling. Even opening firefox can take upwards of 10 seconds at times, and youtube is basically unwatchable, with constant video-audio desync issues.
I've often wondered if there's something wrong with mine, because as far as I can tell it's totally unusable for video.
You're running the wrong OS is all.LibreElec works perfectly for 1080p streaming of Netflix with 5.1 Dolby+ sound via a USB sound card. I think it'd struggle with 4K, but really, nobody needs that.
I have a Pi4 4 GB running Libreleelec (Kodi) and connected to a TV via HDMI. It sees a mounted drive shared using Samba by another Pi4 NAS on my home LAN. The NAS is connected to the router with Ethernet; the TV Kodi one uses wi-fi. I can stream even 1080p x265 material stored on the NAS with NO glitches or any noticeable problems at all. I get a lot of stuff by putting on an eye patch and going -oo-arrr me hearties'.
> Will it velcro to the back of your TV to provide silent streaming from the interwebs?
My cheap £35 refurb Lenovo ThinkCenter Tiny thing is attached via a VESA bracket. Works well enough.
Thanks for the reminder!
I know that the company changed hands some significant time back, but I used to get their flyer, and frequently bought stuff from them, like my first digital camera. But I'd forgotten they even existed
"anyone else remember their original Morgan Camera Company shop on Tottenham Court Road?"
Yes. Got various Exakta bits from them. And a Star dot-matix printer.
I really don't understand this comment that comes up all the time.
It's like I go to the shop for orange marmalade and someone suggests peanut butter as an alternative.
If I want to be part of the Pi movement, there is really no point in buying a second hand x86 with a PSU 10 times bigger than the Pi and a power consumption to match plus a noisy fan.
Loss of the audio jack I can understand, it will affect some uses but USB DSP support isn't a big hurdle and the older Pi types can more than cover any audio usage anyway, The fan header is a good inclusion, it'll impart less of a Heath Robinson look to my future projects.
The surprise for me was when i spotted the 'power button', I've not seen any details as to it's operation on the Pi website - does the Pi5 default to booting when power is applied out of the box like all previous PI? Can it be bypassed?
> does the Pi5 default to booting when power is applied out of the box like all previous PI? Can it be bypassed?
Yes, and yes. Power button behaviour is configurable - it is just standard Debian power button handling.
Thanks Zola
From one review it seems it's a power down / standby button with the power down being a customisable script which seems a good thing in general.
:-(
Why always changing the layout, grrrrrrrr
Expensive
The shortage of stock over the last few years made me re-consider using rPis in a couple of home situations. If you need a headless/fanless board for a very specific function, then the price-per-watt might still be worth it. It's not even that small in footprint when you factor in the cables sprouting out of every direction
However on my home "management server" I tried attaching an SSD via USB-SATA enclosure to my 4GB Pi 4 to make updates/installations slightly less IO-bound vs MicroSD or USB-3 stick. Despite recommended/compatible USB 3 chipset, I had no end of problems with the power envelope of the Pi. With a powered USB hub as well the thing ended up taking out 2 plug sockets and wires everywhere... not a family-approved application.
I eventually just bought a Lenovo ThinkCentre M93 Tiny with Intel i3 "T" CPU (office refurb on ebay, £35). When comparing the power usage, the full x86 box with more RAM and expandability idled at 9-12W and my Pi 4 idled at 4W. For some applications such as ARM development, GPIO/electronics tinkering, or a truly fanless requirement then it might be worth paying the Pi premium. But IMO if you need cheap but still vaguely efficient home compute for some headless home server/NAS tinkering, then for most people a cheap refurb x86 thin client is probably more flexible and cost-effective.
Re: Expensive
That would also leave more Pi stock available for people who actually need them.
The most appealing Pi form-factor for me in recent years is probably the Pi Zero 2W actually, ideal for small home automation applications.
Re: Expensive
And at the other end of the scale, for embedded/IoT type things there's plenty of cheap boards available now. ESP32 or Pi Pico will fill that niche nicely.
In my mind the Raspberry Pi was revolutionary, but they now seem to fall into the standard business habit of having to release a new version regularly that's faster, hotter, more power hungry and more expensive... to the point that they seem to be trying to compete with 'desktop' PCs which ignores the aspect that made them popular to begin with.
Same Footprint
Considering the Pi is moving further towards being a mini computer than a tinker board with every new version, why are they keeping the same footprint?
If they had increased the size by 1.5-2.0 times you could have the 3.5mm audio again, you could have full sized HDMI and negate the need for those damned adapter cables. You need a new case anyways, why not a slightly bigger one?
Re: Same Footprint
If it continued on that journey as well as the price journey, then by 2031 it would just be a full size, full cost ATX board... :-)
Best bit
You missed the most exciting development - a power switch....
No Audio? No Loss.
Personally I think this was a dud anyway. The quality really wasn't up to much, and I quickly found even the cheapest USB units gave significantly better results all round. Never tried any of the hats - they all seemed far too expensive for what they were.
With such a USB unit I found the Pi4B could run complex MIDI tracks in a full-fat soft-synth, so this one should be even better.
Pi on the moon
Would that make it a moon Pi ? ;)
(American snack food thing)