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Let's have a chat about Java licensing, says unsolicited Oracle email

(2023/07/05)


Exclusive Oracle is firing off unsolicited emails to businesses offering to discuss Java subscription deals, seemingly in an effort to extract information which could be to its benefit in future license negotiations.

The email, seen by The Register , arrives from a Java enterprise account executive and promises "some news to share regarding Java Licensing & Security."

Big Red announced its new [1]Java SE Universal Subscription in January, a move it said would offer "a simple, low-cost monthly subscription that includes Java SE Licensing and Support for use on Desktops, Servers or Cloud deployments."

[2]

However, at the time, experts warned that could force businesses to pay tens of thousands of dollars more each month for running the same software under the new Java licensing terms, which charge per employee, rather than processor or user.

[3]

[4]

In the latest email, Oracle appeals to recipients to start conversations about a "New Universal Subscription Site License."

"Customers no longer need to count every processor or user name," the email said. "Whether or not you have previous knowledge of Java Licensing or even had a conversation with a member of our team regarding the changes… a new conversation may be worthwhile."

[5]

Fredrik Filipsson, director of software licensing advisory firm Redress Compliance, told The Register that three small businesses had contacted the company for advice about the email in the last four weeks.

"They don't really have that much experience in Oracle. They don't really know how to reply," said Filipsson.

He said one business contacted him having engaged with Oracle after receiving the email. It was running Java on five servers, but Oracle had said it was now due for a £100,000 ($127,000) subscription to run its Java software.

[6]

A former Oracle licensing executive, Filipsson said anyone engaging Oracle following the email could be helping the company prepare for "soft audits" – a sales exercise based on measures of information about current licences, rather than an official audit.

"They are actually providing Oracle with information about how they deploy Java. But they are just talking to a salesperson," he said.

Filipsson has recounted the path of a number of businesses conversations with Oracle over Java licensing in [7]a blog .

In it, he claims that if a customer provides Oracle with information about its use of Java, Oracle might claim "the customer needs to license hundreds, sometimes thousands, of processors due to a few Java installations on VMware."

[8]Kinder, gentler Oracle says it's changed, and now wants you to succeed

[9]EDB offers 'risk-free' migration to lure Oracle users to the PostgreSQL side

[10]Oracle offers AI to tell you if those lead times are hogwash

[11]Gartner: Oracle probes orgs for Java compliance after new licensing terms

He recommended organizations using Oracle should be confident that they are correctly licensing its software correctly, and ignore this effort to engage.

The Register has contacted Oracle to offer it the opportunity to respond.

Oracle's interest in Java licensing has been increasing since spring of last year when The Register [12]reported that Oracle had begun to include the software in its licensing audits . In February, [13]Gartner warned that Oracle "actively targets organizations" on Java compliance following the introduction of new contractual terms for the code.

Oracle licensing expert Craig Guarente, Palisade Compliance founder and CEO, told us organizations should reply to Oracle if they receive the email but be careful not to give away information about their use of Oracle software unnecessarily.

"It's Oracle's IP, and they have a right to monetize it the way they see fit, and every customer who uses it has an obligation to be in compliance. No one is questioning that, but if I were receiving that email, I'd probably make a phone call back to Oracle and have a conversation with them and ask them questions without giving much information away. Obviously, I would know my compliance position before I made that call," he said. ®

Get our [14]Tech Resources



[1] https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-subscription-faq.html

[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_specialfeatures/sysadminmonth&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2ZKWToWaVQCMDVQoSxcehHAAAA9E&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0

[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_specialfeatures/sysadminmonth&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZKWToWaVQCMDVQoSxcehHAAAA9E&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_specialfeatures/sysadminmonth&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33ZKWToWaVQCMDVQoSxcehHAAAA9E&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_specialfeatures/sysadminmonth&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44ZKWToWaVQCMDVQoSxcehHAAAA9E&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_specialfeatures/sysadminmonth&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33ZKWToWaVQCMDVQoSxcehHAAAA9E&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[7] https://redresscompliance.com/oracle-is-terrorizing-organizations-with-java-audits/

[8] https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/13/oracle_q4_2023/

[9] https://www.theregister.com/2023/05/02/edb_risk_free_oracle_migration/

[10] https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/20/oracle_ai_hcm_scm/

[11] https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/20/gartner_java_licensing/

[12] https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/22/oracle_starts_to_include_java/

[13] https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/20/gartner_java_licensing/

[14] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/



F. Frederick Skitty

We use OpenJDK on our servers, and for the only client side Java app we have it's running on Azul's free distribution. Can't see any reason why we'd run Oracle's "official" distribution of Java, particularly for server side stuff where our Linux distro already has OpenJDK in their own package repos.

Obviously, I would know my compliance position

abend0c4

True creative licensing ensures there's always scope for doubt and uncertainty about compliance.

Re: Obviously, I would know my compliance position

OhForF'

Keep in mind that it was Oracle licensing expert Craig Guarente, Palisade Compliance founder and CEO that said he'd know his compliance position.

He probably wouldn't mind companies asking Palisade for assistance before responding to that mail from Oracle.

xyz123

Can't say which place, but recently Oracle "demanded" £72,000,000/year to use Java, so company shut down ALL java projects, uninstalled java from every single machine and brought in dozens of programmers to recreate their systems in HTML etc.

Lee D

Which is the only sensible response to discovering that a product you hold is now licenced by Oracle.

CMOT Oracle

Kevin Johnston

If there was only one flavour of Java available and it was a critical system with no other way to code then I could see this approach having some merit. In reality this is the Twitter approach to building your business

Simple solution

alain williams

Create a company with one employee and spin off all Java applications to that company. Permit use by the parent company.

OK: I suspect that Oracle's license terms will forbid that, but creative solutions like this should be used while you transition away from Oracle supplied Java.

Is Larry Ellison a cousin to Ryan Air's Michael O'Leary ?

Re: Simple solution

Paul Crawford

Better still purge your business of ALL software from Oracle.

In a past job we had Sun stuff, once it became Oracle we knew it was game over so all that was not already paid for / permanent was decommissioned and free options from Linux and similar used instead. OK, not everyone has that luxury as they may lack developers or be tied to COTS stuff that only works with X.Y.Z version (hopefully from pre licence change!), but if you are using Oracle they will come after you for serious money have the the legal form for making you pay.

bsdnazz

*So* glad we moved to OpenJDK some years ago when it became obvious Oracle was going to change the license terms so they could charge for licenses.

Anonymous Coward

We're constantly checking PCs & servers to make sure they don't have Oracle Java on them. As a general rule, we're moving away from Java as a development environment because of "Oracle"

devin3782

Dear Oracle,

Do please go directly to hell.

Deeply unkind regards

A Java Developer whom soon won't be.

b0llchit

Dear sir,

We cannot comply and go to hell. We are already well positioned in hell and love the hot jars.

Sincerely, Oracle

PS. You are a Java Developer by your own admission. You have been tracked down for an audit. We at Oracle believe in paying devil's due. You have been flagged as trying to flirt with heaven and such behaviour can and will not be tolerated.

Audit? We don't want no audit.

Paul Uszak

What's this about Oracle "auditing" companies? By the Oracle police? We use Java where and how we want. If you want to "audit" us, I suggest bringing a court order, armed police or destroyer droid. Otherwise you risk annoying James on the front desk (ex. Royal Marine sergeant). But doesn't work Tuesdays... damn...

Re: Audit? We don't want no audit.

Anonymous Coward

If you have signed a contract with Oracle for anything, they will have the right to audit you

Re: Audit? We don't want no audit.

b0llchit

Lesson learned: Never sign a contract with Oracle.

dawidpotocki

> Oracle licensing expert Craig Guarente, Palisade Compliance founder and CEO, told us organizations should reply to Oracle

What? Why would you want to talk with them at all? The safest option is to not engage at all. What could you possibly get out of it?

Better the devil you DON'T know, in this case

Fred Daggy

If one talks to 2 different Oracle Licencing experts about compliance, expect (at least) 3 different versions of "no, you're not compliant".

Don't deal with the devil.

Excuse me while I giggle

Alistair

On the RH sources thread I think I made a comment that is slightly relevant......

[1]RHEL has only one target

[1] https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2023/07/04/rocky_linux_rhel_loopholes/#c_4690500

Lemma: All horses are the same color.
Proof (by induction):
Case n = 1: In a set with only one horse, it is obvious that all
horses in that set are the same color.
Case n = k: Suppose you have a set of k+1 horses. Pull one of these
horses out of the set, so that you have k horses. Suppose that all
of these horses are the same color. Now put back the horse that you
took out, and pull out a different one. Suppose that all of the k
horses now in the set are the same color. Then the set of k+1 horses
are all the same color. We have k true => k+1 true; therefore all
horses are the same color.
Theorem: All horses have an infinite number of legs.
Proof (by intimidation):
Everyone would agree that all horses have an even number of legs. It
is also well-known that horses have forelegs in front and two legs in
back. 4 + 2 = 6 legs, which is certainly an odd number of legs for a
horse to have! Now the only number that is both even and odd is
infinity; therefore all horses have an infinite number of legs.
However, suppose that there is a horse somewhere that does not have an
infinite number of legs. Well, that would be a horse of a different
color; and by the Lemma, it doesn't exist.