If we plan to live on the Moon, it's going to need a time zone
- Reference: 1677652209
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2023/03/01/esa_moon_time_zone/
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That hasn't been a problem up until now, the ESA [1]explained , because the Moon hasn't ever had to deal with a crowd. Each mission to the Moon keeps its own time relative to the managing agency making the visit, which is synchronized with Earth using deep space antennas that relay communications and chronometric information between mission and control.
"As dozens of missions will be operating on and around the Moon and needing to communicate together and fix their positions independently of Earth, this new era will require its own time," the ESA warned.
You've gotta know when to know where
The international space community has been working on a computing network for the Moon dubbed " [2]LunaNet ," which Javier Ventura-Traveset, manager of the ESA's Moonlight lunar navigation program said will look a lot like how the Earth's international community built terrestrial networks and navigation systems.
"LunaNet is a framework of mutually agreed-upon standards, protocols and interface requirements allowing future lunar missions to work together, conceptually similar to what we did on Earth for joint use of GPS and Galileo," Ventura-Traveset explained. He added that the space community has a chance to agree on interoperability before navigation and networking satellite systems are deployed, this time around.
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On Earth, the various global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) were built by different countries – GPS by the US, Galileo from the EU, Glonass from Russia and BeiDou for China – all of which keep their own precise onboard time.
[4]As one mission returns to Earth, three more make for the Moon
[5]Field trip! European Space Agency sends astronauts abroad to learn about rocks
[6]NASA: Yup, thousand-pound meteorite exploded over Texas
[7]ESA names first Parastronaut: paralympian and aspiring surgeon John McFall
Time being one of the [8]fundamental parts of determining position using satellites, interoperability standards had to be agreed upon after the launches of the various GNSS constellations.
That has meant making up for slight timing differences between GPS, Galileo and other GNSS systems by introducing fixed offsets – something that everyone involved would prefer to avoid in building out LunaNet and similar systems.
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ESA navigation system engineer Pietro Giordano said a joint international effort to create some form of Lunar standard time began after a November meeting of ESA's Space Research and Technology Centre.
"We agreed on the importance and urgency of defining a common lunar reference time," Giordano said, and it couldn't be more urgent as [11]NASA and the [12]ESA ; each have their own plans to deploy navigational satellites as part of LunaNet The US's Lunar Communications Relay and Navigation System, and the ESA's aforementioned Moonlight program.
Hey Moon - your time is, like, totally dilated
Deciding on a Universal Standard Lunar Time isn't going to be easy. In fact, it's probably going to be a good deal harder than it was on Earth, according to the ESA's chief Galileo engineer Jörg Hahn.
While the success of GNSS can be used as a basis for designing a Lunar navigation and timekeeping standard, "stable timekeeping on the Moon will throw up its own unique challenges – such as taking into account the fact that time passes at a different rate there due to the Moon's specific gravity and velocity effects," Hahn said.
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NASA engineers have known about the issue of time moving differently on the Moon for decades, as evidenced by a 1972 [14]technical note [PDF] NASA published on how to make relativistic time corrections for the Apollo 12 and 13 missions.
According to the ESA, a clock on the Moon gains around 56 millionths of a second per day compared to a terrestrial equivalent, and that rate changes based on whether the clock is in orbit or on the Moon's surface. It's not much, but with humans set to have a permanent presence in orbit once the [15]Lunar Gateway is built, those millionths of a second will add up.
Finally, time can't be measured without a "Selenocentric reference frame" that would focus like the [16]International Terrestrial Reference Frame – a three-dimensional point that sets a physical standard from which to measure universal time.
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Once they work out exactly how to measure it, the team is also trying to determine whether a single organization will be responsible for maintaining Lunar timekeeping, as is the case on Earth.
But these chronological triggers haven't upset Ventura-Traveset, who said exploration has long been a key driver of improving our understanding, and keeping, of time, and now we have an opportunity to extend that knowledge to the Moon.
Developing this standard now, Ventura-Traveset said, "will not only ensure interoperability between the different lunar navigation systems, but which will also foster a large number of research opportunities and applications in cislunar space." ®
Get our [18]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.esa.int/Applications/Navigation/Telling_time_on_the_Moon
[2] https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/lunanet-empowering-artemis-with-communications-and-navigation-interoperability
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Y-8wVe6Q6Vfkb3ucgkW6lwAAAJY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/12/orion_returns/
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/06/field_trip_european_space_agency/
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/22/texas_meteorite_nasa/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/25/esa_2022_astronauts/
[8] https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/gnss/gps/howitworks
[9] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y-8wVe6Q6Vfkb3ucgkW6lwAAAJY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[10] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Y-8wVe6Q6Vfkb3ucgkW6lwAAAJY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/20/nasa_ai_moon_navigation/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/21/esa_moonlight/
[13] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y-8wVe6Q6Vfkb3ucgkW6lwAAAJY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[14] https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19720022040/downloads/19720022040.pdf
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/15/nasa_capstone_cubesat_moon/
[16] https://www.iers.org/IERS/EN/DataProducts/ITRF/itrf.html
[17] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Y-8wVe6Q6Vfkb3ucgkW6lwAAAJY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[18] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
... and be done with it. No need for that fscking useless so-called "daylight savings time", either.
Works for the ISS, and various other bits of space debris junk kit.
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
Create a special tax zone, setup a bank and call its offer the "moonlight savings time", for all the people doing a little bit of moonlighting to afford their Avocados.
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
You're trying to get all of them in the B Ark, aren't you?
Nice try :).
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
Without a convenient molten iron core to moderate the "daylight", most people will be living permanently underground anyway. Remember that, galactic "colonists" and terraformers!
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
Exactly if you are mostly living under at least 5 meters (16 feet) of regolith to mimic the radiation shielding effects of earths atmosphere, does it matter what time it is ? Solar X-rays are safely absorbed (converted to heat) in the troposphere 6 to 20 km (4 to 12 miles) above out heads here on earth. It is not just earth magnetosphere that protects us.
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
The lunar day is 24 hours and 50 minutes long. Lunar residents may find a clock tied to a lunar day convenient if their activities are affected by day / night cycles.
ISS usually uses UTC (GMT), but the ISS crew would often switch to the Mission Elapsed Time of a visiting space shuttle to make coordinanation easier.
Time dilation on the ISS relative to Greenwich is such that astronauts won't notice, but it has to be accounted for on GPS satellites else their accuracy is affected.
Re: Just set the entire moon to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC +0) ...
Unfortunately, even over the cosmologically short distances from Earth to Moon, relativistic effects can be observed. Even much-closer by GPS satellites have correct for relativistic effects to generate decently accurate position information.
So, saying sync to UTC is missing a whole bunch of thinking needed.
An agreed terminator on the moon getting it's own time reference solves a bunch of problems that most people won't ever have.
Setting up the right framework here would also be useful as a precendent for e.g. Mars; as-and-when we finally stop blowing each other up over lines on a map and set out to explore.
Hey Moon - your time is, like, totally dilated
Gets worse... Because everything moving will have a different velocity and therefore have a different time. Where's Joe Haldeman when you need him.
Re: Hey Moon - your time is, like, totally dilated
Well, that happens on Earth too, but we seem to manage somehow.
If you want to know the rate of time on the moon
- build a cathedral
- ensure that it contains a long pendulum
- allow a passing polymath to observe the rate at which that pendulum swings
- calculate the expected rate (taking into account the local gravitational field) and note the difference between the expected and observed rates
- $
Or, more sensibly: what's wrong with UTC?
Re: Problem with UTC
For a start, anything that counts seconds will diverge from UTC. Everything with its own time keeping would need to be modified to count lunar seconds instead. The meter is defined by the distance travelled by light in a second so you get a lunar meter as well. The kilogram is safe but a whole pile of derived units get lunar versions: velocity, momentum, force, energy, power, current, voltage, angular velocity, angular momentum... You get a new temperature scale or have to use different thermodynamic constants near the moon.
Life is actually easier if you keep the second in common and just accept that the conversion from Earth time to Moon time is not simply add a constant.
Re: Problem with UTC
The meter is defined by the distance travelled by light in a second so you get a lunar meter as well
Nope, this is the one of the reasons why the definition of the metre was changed from the length of a metal bar (originally kept in France I believe) to the distance that light travels in vacuum in approximately a 300 millionth of a second. To an observer, light travelling in a vacuum must always travel at a velocity of c , so a metre is always exactly a metre, whatever your relativistic frame of reference is.
Unless you're talking about space time compression (gravitational waves for example.) Then it gets really confusing...
Re: Problem with UTC
That's not how relativity works.
Lets pretend that there is a massive difference between the passage of time on the Earth and the Moon, such that humans could actually perceive it. Next, we make a one metre-long stick, by carefully measuring how far light travels in ~3.3ns, on both the Earth and the Moon.
If you used a telescope to look from the Earth to the Moon the Lunar metre would appear to be too short. Conversely, someone on the moon would perceive the Earth's meter as being too long. (Unless I've got that the wrong way around).
However, if you took both metre sticks up into orbit and put them next to each other, they would be exactly the same length.
The SI units don't change. Our measurements of things might change, if we're in a different reference frame from the thing we're measuring.
In reality, generally the differences are too small for humans to have to bother about them much, fortunately.
Re: If you want to know the rate of time on the moon
As noted above, relativistic effects can be observed over earth-to-GPS satellite distances, and definitely over earth to moon. Sync to UTC is just not that simple.
Unless you operate in a world where you live with such calculations it's an invisible problem to most.
Moon time?
Won't that be based on how long it takes to make one rotation like Earth? Wait, the moon doesn't rotate. So, the Light side is constantly AM and the Dark side is PM? Maybe we need to bring Pink Floyd into this discussion?
There's an earth based atomic clock in one of these pockets...
Re: Moon time?
Nope, the moon, in fact, rotates and has sunrise and sunset. It is tidally locked to Earth (likely what you had in mind), which means the same side always faces Earth - and this side can be light and dark (giving us the moon phases).
Re: Moon time?
Beat me to it. Have a beer :-)
Re: Moon time?
"Wait, the moon doesn't rotate"
Yes, it does. The rotation ("synchronous rotation") just happens to match it's orbit around the Earth, which is why we only see one side (plus a bit, for the pedants).
Re: Moon time?
Ha! I forgot about that small wobble :)
have one -->
Re: Moon time?
No, it's called [1]libration , not libation.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration
Re: Moon time?
LOL - well spotted :).
Re: Moon time?
If you have enough libation you'll have a libration all of your own :)
Re: Moon time?
I'd offer a small libation for the libration, but for some reason I don't always see the icons on this computer and today is one of those days.
Theoretic pint ---->
Just ensure that every visitor to the Moon has bad teeth. That way it'll always be tooth hur.... No! Nope, I can't say it!