France says non to Office 365 and Google Workspace in school
- Reference: 1669104065
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2022/11/22/france_no_windows_google/
- Source link:
In August, Philippe Latombe, a member of the French National Assembly, [1]advised [PDF] Pap Ndiaye, the minister of national education, that the free version of Microsoft Office 365, while appealing, amounts to a form of illegal dumping. He asked the education minister what he intends to do, given the data sovereignty issues involved with storing personal data in an American cloud service.
Last week, the Ministry of National Education published [2]a written reply to confirm that French public procurement contracts require "consideration" – payment.
[3]
"Free service offers are therefore, in principle, excluded from the scope of public procurement," the Ministry statement says, and minister Ndiaye has [4]reportedly confirmed this position.
[5]
[6]
This applies to other free offerings like Google Workspace for Education. Paid versions of these cloud services might be an option if they hadn't already been disallowed based on worries about data safety.
French authorities consider Microsoft and Google cloud services that store data in the US to be non-compliant with European data regulations like GDPR and with "Schrems II" – a [7]2020 ruling [PDF] from the Court of Justice of the European Union governing data sharing across borders.
[8]
The "Schrems II" decision invalidated the US-EU Privacy Shield Agreement because the CJEU found that US law fell short of the privacy standards in Europe.
[9]Germany says nein to Qatari World Cup spyware, err, apps
[10]Instagram fined in Ireland for violating children's privacy
[11]EU puts smart device manufacturers on the hook for cyber security
[12]Country that still uses fax machines wants to lead the world on data standards at G7
On September 15, 2021, Nadi Bou Hanna, director of DINUM, France's interministerial digital department, said in a letter that French government agencies considering cloud services to replace office and messaging products on government servers like Exchange [13]should not use Office 365 [PDF] because it does not comply with France's "Cloud at the Center" initiative.
Citing the position of DINUM, the prime minister's "Cloud at the Center" policy, and a May 2021 note from the National Commission for Computing and Liberties (CNIL) advising higher education institutions to use GDPR-respecting cloud collaboration services, the Ministry of Education in October 2021 said it advised academies to avoid any deployment of Office 365 or Google Workspace.
German data protection authorities came to a similar conclusion in 2019 when they [14]disallowed Microsoft Office 365 in classrooms in the state of Hessen.
Google did not respond to a request for comment.
[15]
Microsoft declined to comment. However, the company in July [16]announced Microsoft Cloud for Sovereignty, a service that will allow public sector customers [17]to use Microsoft cloud services in a way that's consistent with policies.
Microsoft also plans to deploy its EU Data Boundary, though which EU customer data can be processed in compliance with data regulations, by the end of 2022. And Google last year undertook [18]a similar initiative to meet EU data protection demands.
Last month, president Biden [19]signed an executive order directing US agencies to implement the Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework, [20]announced in March.
The EU now has to [21]take steps to adopt the rules , which could take some time. Once that happens, data transfers between the US and the EU should become more manageable. And Microsoft and Google may find it easier to win European government cloud contracts. ®
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[1] https://questions.assemblee-nationale.fr/static/16/questions/jo/jo_anq_202234.pdf
[2] https://questions.assemblee-nationale.fr/q16/16-971QE.htm
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Y3yryI6rhAa0ZasKUpnn5wAAAFc&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://siecledigital.fr/2022/11/17/le-ministre-de-leducation-nationale-ne-veut-pas-de-microsoft-office-365-ni-de-google-workspace/
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y3yryI6rhAa0ZasKUpnn5wAAAFc&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Y3yryI6rhAa0ZasKUpnn5wAAAFc&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[7] https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2020-07/cp200091en.pdf
[8] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y3yryI6rhAa0ZasKUpnn5wAAAFc&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/16/germany_world_cup_apps/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/06/instagram_ireland_privacy_fine_children/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/16/eu_cyber_resilience_act/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/15/japan_g7_data_standards/
[13] https://regmedia.co.uk/2022/11/22/letter_dinum.pdf
[14] https://datenschutz.hessen.de/pressemitteilungen/stellungnahme-des-hessischen-beauftragten-f%C3%BCr-datenschutz-und
[15] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Y3yryI6rhAa0ZasKUpnn5wAAAFc&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[16] https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2022/07/19/microsoft-cloud-for-sovereignty-the-most-flexible-and-comprehensive-solution-for-digital-sovereignty/
[17] https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/20/microsoft_cloud_for_sovereignty/
[18] https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/identity-security/helping-build-the-digital-future-on-europes-terms
[19] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/07/fact-sheet-president-biden-signs-executive-order-to-implement-the-european-union-u-s-data-privacy-framework/
[20] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/25/fact-sheet-united-states-and-european-commission-announce-trans-atlantic-data-privacy-framework/
[21] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_22_6045
[22] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Gateway drugs
Why else would a for profit company give something away for free ?
If only there was a way to specify in which location your Office 365 tenancy resides...
[1]social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/37502.office-365-how-to-change-data-center-regions.aspx
[1] https://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/37502.office-365-how-to-change-data-center-regions.aspx
It doesn't change a thing, because of the Cloud Act. Wherever are your data in the World, they are at the disposal of US agencies.
We need an European cloud managed by European companies. That should be possible, moreover when there's a market for that.
== Bring us Dabbsy back! ==
We need an European cloud managed by European companies.
Maybe a nice reliable French supplier like OVH?
IIRC, OVH customers who had paid for redundant hosting in different locations had no issues.µ
It's only the small fry who thought they didn't need it who caught flat-footed when the fire broke out.
You can't sell for less than cost in France
which location your Office 365 tenancy resides
That's only part of the problem. It's the 'free' element that they're not happy about.
It's actually illegal to sell something for less than cost in France, except during prescribed sales periods because it is considered to create 'unfair competition.'
Re: You can't sell for less than cost in France
Yeah, at least that's the theory.
IQ Test
Boeing is to Airbus as Google Docs is to X.
What is X ? If not (yet), why not?
Re: IQ Test
No market? If it were wanted, it would appear.
Re: IQ Test
libreoffice?
at least it is on-premise and don't send your anything anywhere automatically.
i know it may be a bit poor, feature-wise, in comparison to options by the big corps, but in this case it is academic use so maybe it is enough for the purpose.
or if it cannot fit completely in the academic ecosystem, maybe encourage usage in the school <-> student <-> parent loop or even school <-> school loop... and for the school <-> education authority / government loop just continue to use the big name thing - and replace it with LO if, ever, it becomes feasible.
Re: IQ Test
If you want to take that important question seriously, there is a serious answer, but it might not be what you hoped.
X is Baidu + WeChat. The largest search market in the world by GDP, China, is really vaguely aware of Google. It does most of its day-to-day tasks including payment, messaging etc on WeChat. China has achieved this by Balkanising the internet using the Great Firewall.
If the EU *wants* a sovereign search engine, with sovereign “OpenOffice” (Europeanised, of course), and sovereign social media platforms, it absolutely can make its own. But the cost is a Balkanised internet and economy. It has to be enforced. Chinese users don’t hanker after WhatsApp, they think the ease and lifestyle useability of WeChat for payments etc puts the rest of the world in the Stone Age. They view us, very much like we viewed the Soviet Union in the seventies and eighties.
Also, if AirbusGoogleDocs and AirbusSearch really did have 99% dominance in EU market…..what possible levers does EU have to require Google to keep GoogleDocs open/exportable with AirbusDocs? You can’t threaten them with losing the EU market, if they’d already lost it.
Also, this is a bit more subtle, but e-commerce owners spend *a lot* of money maintaining compatibility with Google search specifically. People don’t look at it that way, but that’s what it is. It’s called SEO. Nobody wants to rank on DuckDuckGo, they want to rank on Google. SEO is search-engine-neutral in principle, but very much not in practice. Every time Google change their algorithm, most online businesses adjust their website SEO. For exactly that reason, if you in the EU want to find anything from a Chinese supplier, search on Baidu not Google. None of the Western search engines index anything of value within China, because Chinese business owners optimise their sites for Baidu ranking.
And that’s how the internet gets Balkanised, even *without* official firewall.
Delighted!
And I hope other European countries - and regions beyond the EU - follow suit.
It's beyond time for the adoption of the FOSS alternatives.
Another brexit bonus!
We get to monetise the plebs health records while they can't even use free MS/Google products!
Back off Brussels!!
free versions of Microsoft Office 365 and Google Workplace should not be used in schools
oh well, we'll "get them" anyway, if there's a will there's a way! An there is a will. The WILL is strong with those ones :(
"French public procurement contracts require "consideration" – payment."
So there's a nice shiny new version of Orifice 297 or whatever, launched. It's precisely the same as the free educational version except for one clearly defined additional "feature" to differentiate it. Price is 1 cent per seat per year or 1 euro for a lifetime subscription.
The "payment" must not be less than the cost of production (except during sales) - see previous comment (above). Of course this opens the problem of just how do you measure the "cost of production" for a cloud-based product.
Add up an amount of money that has been spent on software development since O365 was started, add a line item for the Azure resources it consumes, add a line item for the staff assigned to it. Divide the sum by the current number of users.
It doesn't have to be perfect, just justifiable.
"Once that happens, data transfers between the US and the EU should become more manageable."
Until Schrems III.
Some more context
Firstly, the geopolitical context, summarised in this article from Marianne (a nowadays left-leaning French political magazine):
https://www.marianne.net/agora/tribunes-libres/les-conditions-a-la-souverainete-numerique-de-la-france-vouloir-pouvoir-et-devoir
Secondly, this:
> However, the company in July announced Microsoft Cloud for Sovereignty, a service that will allow public sector customers to use Microsoft cloud services in a way that's consistent with policies.
..is neither here nor there as, once again for anyone who hasn't read Schrems I and II, the issue is primarily not one of data protection but one of non-compliance with the European Charter of Fundamental Rights (CFR), as this note from the French government explains:
https://www.francenum.gouv.fr/guides-et-conseils/pilotage-de-lentreprise/stockage-des-donnees-en-ligne-cloud/cloud-pour-les-tpe
In that context, France has a "secure cloud" standard, SecNumCloud (https://www.ssi.gouv.fr/uploads/2014/12/secnumcloud-referentiel-exigences-v3.2.pdf) which applies to most public sector projects and to many private or public-private ones, and which is, frankly, strongly recommended for anyone in the EU space (not just France) who is serious about compliance and security.
Protectionism vs "free market"
If you put the data protection issue aside (as that alone should be stopping people using Office 365/Google Workspace in the EU, but somehow doesn't seem to be), this comes down to the continuing battle that France is fighting - to protect its home grown industry from MUCH larger corporations around the world using their sheer size to kill off competition, but without any actual financial assistance (as doing that would end up being counter to EU state aid rules too).
Problem is, France doesn't appear to be as attractive to corporations to set up shop and become "the next Microsoft" as the USA is, so this battle will continue forever, as their home grown companies don't generally scale to Microsoft-sized entities.
Gateway drugs
That they are.