Tesla reports two more fatal Autopilot accidents to the NHTSA
- Reference: 1668623412
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2022/11/16/tesla_nhtsa_report/
- Source link:
Since mandatory reporting began in June 2021, the NHTSA has [1]recorded 18 fatal accidents it said involved ADAS systems. All but one report involved a Tesla.
"NHTSA has reviewed these crashes and is conducting appropriate follow-up. NHTSA uses many data sources in its enforcement processes," the agency [2]told Reuters.
[3]
The NHTSA began collecting data on ADAS accidents involving levels 1 and 2, the latter of which includes [4]Tesla's Autopilot , in June 2021. Mandatory reporting began due to a general order from the Agency requiring all auto manufacturers with ADAS technology to report any and all accidents involving said tech.
[5]
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The NHTSA defines ADAS level 2 as systems "which can simultaneously support vehicle lane position, speed, and following distance," but which require humans to maintain focus.
The Agency's first report, delivered in June of this year, found that [7]Tesla accounted for 70 percent of ADAS accidents , or 270 of the 394 it was informed of between June '21 and June '22. Since then, the agency has reported new data monthly, with the latest report covering the month ending October 15.
The numbers
Looking at the total number of ADAS crash reports submitted in the past year, Tesla dominates, although this is likely linked to the fact that there are more ADAS-equipped Teslas on the road than other vehicles. The Associated Press has previously claimed Tesla's crash rate per 1,000 vehicles is [8]"substantially higher than the corresponding numbers for other automakers," although it didn't give further detail.
Musk's car company has submitted 474 ADAS crash reports to the NHTSA, while the next closest manufacturer, Honda, has reported 107 accidents.
Total ADAS crash reports by manufacturer
Honda has not reported a fatal ADAS accident to the NHTSA. Ford, which has reported seven total accidents, was the only company aside from Tesla to report a fatality linked to driver assist technology.
It's also worth noting that the NHTSA puts a number of caveats on its data, like the fact that an accident could be reported more than once, that reports aren't standardized between manufacturers or that manufacturers could simply opt not to report an accident.
[9]Tesla recalls 40k cars over patch that broke power steering
[10]Rivian recalls nearly every vehicle it has sold
[11]City isn't keen on 5,000 erratic, traffic-jam-causing GM robo-cars on its streets
[12]US accident investigators want alcohol breathalyzers in all new vehicles
Still, the NHTSA has been on Tesla's case for some time, having opened an investigation last year into a series of accidents that saw Teslas with Autopilot engaged crash into vehicles or emergency responders at the scene of other accidents.
Shortly before publishing its first list of ADAS accidents, the NHTSA announced that it was advancing its initial look at Tesla Autopilot to a [13]formal engineering analysis , which could lead to a recall of 830,000 vehicles.
[14]
The agency expressed concern with the degree to which Autopilot may be making drivers, who are supposed to maintain alertness while using it, become complacent, leading to slower response times.
Tesla maintains that customers using Autopilot should keep their hands on the wheel at all times and remain attentive. ®
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[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting
[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-reports-two-new-fatal-crashes-involving-driver-assistance-systems-2022-11-16/
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Y3VrhWa81UEKfqArBSVhqgAAABM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/27/doj_self_driving_car_criminal/
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y3VrhWa81UEKfqArBSVhqgAAABM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Y3VrhWa81UEKfqArBSVhqgAAABM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/27/doj_self_driving_car_criminal/
[8] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-5e6c354622582f9d4607cc5554847558
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/08/40k_teslas_recalled_due_to/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/10/rivian_recalls_cars/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/27/gm_cruise_robocar_safety_waiver/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/21/ntsb_calls_for_alcohol_detection/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/09/nhtsa_tesla_autopilot/
[14] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Y3VrhWa81UEKfqArBSVhqgAAABM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[15] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Another goat?
We do know that people will die without ADAS. People die in non-ADAS accidents by the thousands each day, I don't think anyone doubts that. Statistically, people die both with or without ADAS. Individually, people might die with or without ADAS.
The big question is whether the chances for an accident are better with or without ADAS. AFAIK, there's still not a truly reliable source with an answer to that.
Re: Another goat?
Autopilot (Tesla's ADAS) = look, ma, no hands!
Other manufacturer's ADAS = lane departure/emergency braking/cruise control/collision avoidance. No freaking 'autopilot' anywhere.
Should Tesla drop the BS marketing 'autopilot' term you can bet your ... whatever... Tesla's beta testers... sorry, customers, would keep at least one hand on the wheel and one eye on the road.
Re: "one hand on the wheel"
And, with that statement, comes to solution: Telsa should put touch sensors on the steering wheel, thereby requiring the driver maintain their hands on the wheel whenever "Autopilot" is active. Remove your hands, Autopilot automatically disengages.
That simple.
But they probably won't do it, until and unless backed into their last, ultimate corner. Because people want to believe the "Autopilot" magic and Telsa is happy to feed these [stupid people's] delusions, because it sells more cars. The legalese of the fine print of what it actually does, "driver assistance ", is lost inside the Owner's Manual, the ToS, and the brochure fine print. But as long as it exists, somewhere, Telsa can hide behind said legalese, sell the lie, and make money.
Re: Remove your hands, Autopilot automatically disengages.
I want to agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure you've thought that through.
Re: Remove your hands, Autopilot automatically disengages.
I remember back in the good old days when I had hands..
Re: "one hand on the wheel"
> Telsa should put touch sensors on the steering wheel...
It has to be much easier to monitor the driver than all the other vehicles in the vicinity and the other things an autopilot must do to drive safely so surely the car should be monitoring the driver and if they aren't paying attention it should start by sounding an alarm. Failure to respond should be treated as a deadman's handle type event.
Re: Another goat?
Well, up to a point. What's the point ANY automated control system if you have to keep your hands (and feet) on the controls and attention on the road and other traffic around you?
Re: Another goat?
WHEN there will be an automated control system installed in all vehicles on the road AND the user won't be able to override that system, THEN you can take your hands off the wheel.
Re: Another goat? - Lane Departure
I had the "pleasure'' of driving a hire vehicle with "Lane Warning".
Fine when driving initially around Toronto staying to lane, but YE Gods the full blown panic mode it went into when in tight fast moving traffic, when having spotted a gap between vehicles to safely move into & I used the indicators to signal that intention.
Wrong question
The big question is whether the chances for an accident are better with or without ADAS
I don't give a shit if my odds of dying are lower with ADAS if it has a much higher chance of killing me in a way I never would have died if I was driving without it.
If I get myself in a situation where an AI with faster than human recognition of the problem and ability to change lanes, correct a skid, slam on brakes, etc. could save me from something that would have otherwise killed me due to my puny human reflexes, but the price is that it might do something stupid I would never do myself like just drive straight into a stopped vehicle without even slowing down then I will take the first option every time.
I've always said that before people will be comfortable letting a car drive for them it has to be TEN TIMES better at avoiding accidents and death than the per mile averages for human driven vehicles - across ALL conditions because that's where those human numbers came from.
Why 10x? Because a lot of those deaths are avoidable if you simply don't drive drunk, drugged, distracted, or so tired you can't stay awake, which greatly inflates those stats. More are avoidable if you pay full attention ALL the time which humans can't do so they save it for particularly dicey situations. Plus those statistics when averaged give a picture of the "average" driver, when most believe they are above average.
Add all that up and an autonomous vehicle needs to do 10x better than human drivers before it will receive wide acceptance. And can't make any ridiculous fatal 'unforced error' type mistakes a human driver would never make.
Autonomous cars
And this is a perfect illustration of why the fully autonomous general purpose cars hype from 5 years or so back was never going to amount to anything. Just like AI, it was never anything but marketing BS and techno-utopianism.
Re: Autonomous cars
Doesn't stop Musk [1]promising the same things year after year .
[1] https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/timeline-of-tesla-self-driving-aspirations-a9686689375/
Another goat?
You really can't say people will die without Tesla's ADAS but, you can say people will die with it. Can you use a "glitch" for accidental excuse, especially with the insurance/lawyers? Also, how can you tell if the ADAS failure was "user error" or a glitch, is that reported?