so yet again they are being shafted. I hope they remember this in 30 years time when they have to vote.

Maybe the oldies can teach the youngsters a thing or two about attitude, reliability & responsibility. It sometimes seems that these are no longer important if you still live with your parents. Not all, obviously, but too many.

"Why did you not do/finish $task when you said you would?"

"CBA" comes the reply.....

"CBA" comes the reply.....

Very true. I was staying in a no-frills hotel a month or so ago, and one morning there was no cooked breakfast available. The less-than-impressed receptionist said that the breakfast chef simply hadn't shown up and when they phoned him he just said he wasn't up to it, which she (indiscreetly) suggested meant he was hungover. Firing him wasn't an option, since there's such a shortage of available staff that they'd then have no breakfasts for weeks. No doubt he'll continue with that CBA behaviour until they do find a replacement, at which point they'll get rid of him and he'll undoubtedly find another desperate establishment to hire him, so he has no incentive to develop more professional behaviour.

If only there was some freedom in the system where the chef could be rewarded in some way to incentivise them to get out of bed and come to work?

Perhaps the movements of small green pieces of paper could be involved?

Instead of moaning about it here, how about you moan at the Tories of screwing up the economy for the last 12 years? An economy so messed up that those who deserve their retirement can't actually enjoy it properly, instead of having to seek employment to make ends meet.

I'm sorry but everyone is entitled to a job, irrespective of age unless you think age descrimination is the right way?

@Plest

"Instead of moaning about it here, how about you moan at the Tories of screwing up the economy for the last 12 years?"

Been going longer than 12 years.

"I'm sorry but everyone is entitled to a job, irrespective of age unless you think age descrimination is the right way?"

I agree with the sentiment but I would say that people earn their job. They are not entitled to work, they earn their job to trade their ability for something of value.

I think you are confusing the right to a job with the ability to do said job.

Everyone has the right to employment, so they can support themselves as necessary.

The person must have the ability to perform that job function adequately.

@AC

"Everyone has the right to employment, so they can support themselves as necessary."

So where can you walk into and demand to be given a paid job to support yourself? Even the basic trade of going up to someone and offering to help for a price is not a given. Nobody is owed employment just because they exist. That would preclude the ability to be fired (without being hired elsewhere).

"The person must have the ability to perform that job function adequately."

Every employment is a trade. As per the trade you must offer something they want in return for what they will offer that you want. That exists at the lowest levels as well as the higher levels.

In a pretty crushing example locally- a homeless guy would walk around the local supermarket carpark offering to take a persons trolley back to the bay as long as he could keep the pound coin. A good trade people seemed happy with. It was very unfortunate he was told he was not allowed to do so any more (not sure if it was the supermarket or a busybody clipboard git).

moan at the Tories of screwing up the economy for the last 12 years?

They didn't release COVID or invade Ukraine.

The real problem is that the mismanagement of the Bliar years has created a generation of entitled snowflakes who expect to have everything handed to them on a plate, and that it is someone else's fault if they don't get what they want. And, of course, government must always pay for it.

>The real problem is that the mismanagement of the Bliar years has created a generation of entitled snowflakes

I think we have accept it's the fault of those lazy Saxons.

The new Norman regime needs to be given some time for its innovative entrepreneurial policies to work.

I think we have accept it's the fault of those lazy Saxons.

I hope we aren't letting the Angles totally off the hook.

>I hope we aren't letting the Angles totally off the hook.

Obtuse bunch

I'm sorry but everyone is entitled to a job

No, they aren't. They're entitled to the opportunity to apply for any jobs going on an equal basis to anyone else, but it's up to them to earn the job through their own abilities.

It's not great news for anyone.

I'm in the south of england and infrastructure engineers with a laundry list of skills are being offered £20k-£30k. (outside London) I don't know where they're getting those figures from, but that's even less than the NHS and local government are paying.

Something is still seriously screwed with the IT jobs market and it's going to take a while to sort itself out, I reckon.

>engineers with a laundry list of skills are being offered £20k-£30k

Wasn't that the point of Global Britain? To undercut China with cheaper workers?

I am sure that some of this is down to the cost of living but we have had a crisis in filling vacancies for a few years now and that will also be encouraging people/

There are some caveats though:

Employers have no concept that older people are still useful.

There is the issue that you cannot get through basic HR screening because they filtered, often before humans are even involved.

Then we have the concept that experienced people are too qualified for a job when maybe all the retired person wants is a few hours at a lower skill level. They can still add huge amounts of value to a role.

This can be a challenge even before one retires, particularly in any IT (even remotely related) role.

There are exceptions but far too many employers just perceive that the older people (and that threshold is frighteningly low) are of no use to them.

Good luck to those seeking employment but a radical change is needed on the part of the employer.

Then we have the concept that experienced people are too qualified for a job when maybe all the retired person wants is a few hours at a lower skill level. They can still add huge amounts of value to a role.

I ran into this somewhat a dozen years ago, when I wanted to return to my original engineering discipline after fifteen years as a project manager - basically in search of more enjoyment, more challenge, less procedure, and (sadly but not unexpectedly) less pay. It took a lot of searching and eventually a temporary position a lot lower than my abilities before I was able to find something that I wanted to do and that someone wanted to pay me for - promoted on grounds of 'if we pay you *this* much will you stay please?'

There's a great opposition to someone in their fifties seeking an entry position in embedded engineering hardware and software and I assume it's the same anywhere.

Ten years later I retired to get out of the UK before the madness of brexit and settled in Europe; this year my old company sought me out for a couple of days a week working, which I'm happy to do (particularly given that the pound has been stupidly low against the Euro, and my pensions pay in pounds...)

I'll second this. I spent a couple of years away abroad and was lucky enough to find an IT job 'on the tools' when I came back. Straightforward hours, minimal stress and far more headspace for hobbies and private projects.

Sure it pays less and has zero prestige, but I'm on the glide path to early retirement and my long term health is taking priority over corporate headaches (tracking quarterly SLA's anyone?).

During the pandemic lots of people in boring jobs were laid off or furloughed, and quite enjoyed the freedom. That was helped by the billions handed-out by government to pay their expenses. They had little interest in returning to work, so a "great resignation" was predictable, until the bills started coming in and they realized that they again needed the money they used to earn.

Not a UK-only problem, although it's easier to 'un-retire' here than it is in some other countries.

It would be interesting to know what sectors they are returning to. Hospitality and the care business are struggling to recruit staff, as industries they're competing with companies looking for drivers, which is less stressful.

Alternatively, they realised that being treated poorly by employers as they were older, was not acceptable any more.

So they took the decision to get away from bad employers as furlough allowed them to see just how bad it was.

Has anybody told them about this?

Icon——-> because I am.

Hey it's not only Charlie who gets a new job at 73. I have been selected for a new post by 'Michael Page UK & Ireland'. It must be a pretty exciting international job 'cos the email was posted from a hotspot in Libya and all I have to do is click on this site in Chile. What could possibly go wro....

Even though I am well past the state retirement age.

I walked into my current $EMPLOYER at the age of 66 and they are only too happy for a number of reasons.

1. Some of the stuff we work with is over 40 years old and designed accordingly. Discrete transistor circuits. Stripline inductors (a piece of metal on a PCB). Small scale integration logic (think quad gates in a single package) providing quite complex logic (so boolean algebra is a must).The list goes on.

2. Lots of RF and Radar, hardly mainstream subjects in colleges and university. I have been in that world, on and off, for over 50 years. Contrary to common belief, we have had functionality that is now commonly rendered using a digital setup (microcontrollers, microprocessors, DACs, ADCs and so forth) for several decades primarily designed in analogue circuits. The fact the new versions are done using newer techniques does not change the fundamentals of what those things are.

3. Designing to what you can get. Particularly true for precision circuits such as test equipment.

4. Small microcontrollers (mainly 8051 based) with the code in assembly language. Precision timed loops (so cycle counting was necessary to get the correct timing - that is how it was done).

4. I know the electronics ecosystem (be that contract PCB assemblers, vendors, reps, FAEs and so forth); if I need some assistance, parts, development kits (you name it) I know who to ask knowing I have a good chance of getting it.

That said, I stay on top of all the new stuff (which is not always easy but if you don't you lose the edge).

I am not preventing someone younger getting a job (as many seem to think is the case for us older types) simply because in the vast majority of cases they simply cannot do the job(s) I do.

YMMV.

....I for one am looking forward to my retirement job. I can't wait to become one of those old men that work at a big box DIY store and is the only on who knows where to find the splagefluxicator brackets or whatever.

Occasionally just for giggles when someone asks me for something I will wander up and down several aisles muttering to myself and then just stop in the middle of the store and piss my pants. Not because of dementia or incontinence but because it will be funny as hell.

It's better than sitting at home staring at daytime TV....

“Cleaner to aisle four!

Cleaner to aisle four!”

sustain the lifestyle they most wanted... Welcome to the real world. It happens to us working stiffs too! I've always said I will work until the day I die... either because I gotta eat, or I'm bored shitless and need a reason to get out of bed.