Oops, I wonder if that's a typo? Working from home is not as easy as working in the office in most circumstances but it saves the company all the money that was being spent to keep the office clean, warm or cool and decent. But if this is the way we're going will it fix the current issues that we are seeing? Will the government start promoting working from home in Rwanda as an excellent choice?

But the other side of this is that the Government is currently complaining about increases in worker pay and working from home will "fix" that for them, it might result in a lot of "working from home" jobs in the UK with workers employed by companies outside the UK because they are so cheap to employ - that could cause the unemployment rates to drop as fast as the wage rates. I am afraid that all of the current changes are going to suck badly.

Silly Cnut* ...

I for one am pissing myself at the contortions *some* organisations are ending up in, trying to make what was "impossible" in 2019 (but clearly wasn't) "impossible" in 2022.

I hope that the single most powerful take home message of the past two years for employees is that they should never again allow employers to get away with using "impossible" to dismiss ideas they don't like. Because it's fucking amazing what suddenly becomes possible when your survival depends on it.

(Of course in the UK this New World Order isn't so skewed to the government paymasters. Quite aside from the developing fuel price crisis, the reduction in commuting means that the demonisation of rail workers has failed to engage.)

As with all things, a medium will be reached. I suspect 80% of those that can WFH permanently are going to end up in some sort of voluntary hybrid situation.

*I am well aware that this is a misunderstood fable.

I think the idea of trying to cut pay for people that want to WFH that were in the office is abhorrent. You're not paying me for my commuting time. You're paying to provide a service to you commensurate with my skill set. Did the skills you are paying me for suddenly become worth less? If there's some task or service I'm now not carrying out, then by all means call it out and we can discuss it. But by cutting my pay you're saying I'm worth less than when I was in the office.

I hope people vote with their feet. Which is ironic because if they do, they won't have to walk anywhere...

Will they also cut the pay of the guy who lives just down the road from the office & walks in every day?

>Did the skills you are paying me for suddenly become worth less?

Assuming you aren't the only person in the world with those skills - I'm paying you the minimum I can pay to get those skills.

If I demand that you are in SF or NY then I'm going to have to pay more, because there are fewer of you and you demand more money to live there.

If I'm able to put out bids for a programmer but I'm not demanding they live in SF vs the same skill set living Idaho - then I can save some money. Programmers are fungible, I don't care if you were previously in SF and moved to Idaho or were always there.

But if I can get somebody in Idaho for $100K rather than $300K in SF, why wouldn't I look for somebody in Estonia for $30k or Elbonia for $3K ?

Because ultimately you are paying for skills. The company is effectively leasing the knowledge that you have in order to do the job that they need doing.

If you want someone for 30k from Elbonia, by all means go and get them; but what's the opportunity cose to the business by doing that.

I don't believe that programmers are fungible, that's a whole load of nuance that would need quantifying before you can go down the "programmers are interchangeable cogs in a production line" (which is the ultimate expression of what you've said).

It's our own fault that we liken development/programming as though it were a production line; that's never truly been the case.

Programmers are fungible,

And this is why so many businesses have shit software. "I just need a stack of coders, who cares if they have domain knowledge" I worked for a company that had big layoffs every year or so. It was like dealing with a company with Alzheimer's. All your business knowledge kept walking (or getting pushed) out the door. "Don't touch that app, Bob is the only one who knows how it works. And he left with the last Voluntary Separation."

WFH was fine when it was the business putting IT on-call 24 hours a day. But employee's wanting to save a couple hours a day commuting, can't have that.

The reason hiring programmers from those other markets isn't a bargain is language and cultural barriers.

Absolutely agreed.

You're paying for my work, not for having me come into the office.

My being in the office or not is now irrelevant. COVID proved that.

So you pay me and you skimp on the office. You still win, in the end.

"Doesn't it seem the cunts have been rolling 6s for too long ?"

Well, dear Regtards, this is your chance to roll a 6 back and fuck them. Fuck them all.

(Being the offspring of an immigrant, one of my defining memories as a child was of my father being chased out of a bank by the manager who was screaming that "you can't just close your account with us ....". Well you can and he did. Fuck you Nat West.)

If my boss can tell me what it is that I "Need" to be in the office to do then I am happy to go back in. I have happily worked from home over the last 2.5 years without any issues, going in once or twice a month when I had to.

Some of my colleagues prefer working from home & others like to get out of the house and go into the office, there have never (so far) been a case that something urgent has come up and there has been nobody available on-site to look at it.

The last conversation about it was about Team building and 'sense of belonging' which pretty much translates to "I'm a crap manager & want to see you in the office so I know you are working".

I've worked quite happily from home for the last ten years, only gone in a handful of times to get a new laptop and once for a meeting. The difference is that I am getting towards the end of my working career as a database designer and have many decades of experience behind me. If manglement told me I had to come back to office working I'd simply quit and file for retirement.

I suspect there are going to be a lot of retirement-consultant

Contracting full time and having to hussle for every new client is hard work. But if I'm senior enough that I can retire and I'm just "open to offers" that looks a lot more appealing - working from home and contracting suddenly don't look that different.

I suspect a lot of senior devs/dbas/bofhs are considering this - because they don't want to go back into the office, or their house is now so valuable they can just sell and move somewhere cheaper.