If only there was some way we could be part of, I don't know, and I'm just thinking out of the box here. A customs union of some kind?

"A customs union of some kind?"

Without surrendering the country to a political union.

Without surrendering the country to a political union.

...said the Scottish

@Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?

"...said the Scottish"

Nope. They sold Scotland willingly. Even vote to remain after being promised candy and rainbows if they left.

Even vote to remain leave after being promised candy and rainbows if they left.

...said the brexiteers

@Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?

"...said the brexiteers"

You do realise project fear turned into a disappointing damp squib for the EU and fanatical remainers?

"You do realise project fear turned into a disappointing damp squib for the EU and fanatical remainers?"

Project reality (to give it's proper name) has been proved rather accurate.

Of course we've only seen a 15% drop in trade compared with other similar economies (i.e. excluding the inevitable effects of a pandemic, and other global pressures) - but we haven't yet implemented brexit in full - and we never will - every time we want to change any standards it will need a new round of negotiations...

@John Robson

"Project reality (to give it's proper name) has been proved rather accurate."

Yes but thats not what I said, I mentioned project fear. That effort to claim we are all doomed because of brexit, which was both ridiculous and false.

'Project fear', right, we now have the highest tax burden since repairing the country after a mechanised army tried to destroy us. But hey, name us a Brexit bonus! What's got better? Anything? Blue Passports?

@GruntyMcPugh

"'Project fear', right, we now have the highest tax burden since repairing the country after a mechanised army tried to destroy us."

Heads up just in case you slept through it but there was a huge grinding of economies around the world including the UK as a pandemic swept over the globe. To tide people over (and I consider this covidpanic) money was spaffed on people as businesses were legally blocked from doing business. All of this after a spaffing of money after the great recession (2008). All this printed money about to smack us with high inflation and a war between Russia and Ukraine is pushing up prices in food and oil etc.

However good morning.

"But hey, name us a Brexit bonus!"

A far better covid vaccination strategy than had we remained. You know when the EU fanatics were also pointing out the UK did better.

UK economy took a bigger hit and has been slower to recover than any other comparable country (despite what Bozo The Clown likes to repeat)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/23/uk-living-standards-fall-sunak

The UK vaccination strategy had nothing to do with Brexit and in fact we're now behind the rest of the EU

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

@monty75

"UK economy took a bigger hit and has been slower to recover than any other comparable country"

Your source doesnt seem to say that.

"The UK vaccination strategy had nothing to do with Brexit and in fact we're now behind the rest of the EU"

Well thats exciting lies. The UK placed orders while the EU took longer to place them. The UK signed orders while the EU took its time doing so. The UK ordered lots of vaccine while the EU turned down vaccine because France wanted the (failed) Sanofi one to get the orders. The EU started catching up as member countries ordered vaccine separately even breaking their agreement with the EU not to negotiate with the same supplier.

The idea a member could authorise a vaccine without the EU was shot when a Dublin minister wanted people to go to NI and bring back vaccine to which the EU said no.

But go on...

*For bonus 'you are wrong' the EU actively threatened and attempted and achieved stealing vaccine due for export and actively raided manufacturing facilities and such looking for vaccine expected to be exported (and found EU supplies instead). If we were in the EU yet went our own way on vaccine the EU would have used EU authority to dictate our vaccine away from us.

Nope - my new passport is black

Nope. They sold Scotland willingly. Even vote to remain after being promised candy and rainbows if they left.

The Union was massively unpopular in Scotland. The country was sold down the river by a clique of aristocrats who had political and financial interests south of the border which had always existed, but intensified after the Union of the Crowns. That they had thrown a lot of their money at a ridiculous "colonial" adventure certainly added to their corruptibility. Bribing them was not difficult for the Crown. What's more, the coercive measures taken to browbeat Scotland, such as the Alien Act of 1705, are rarely if ever mentioned by those who peddle cosy unionist myths. Myths which, unfortunately, are still widely believed :-(

The 2014 referendum was won partly by the "vow" (made in bad faith by the unionists) that something close to devo max would be implemented if Scotland remained and partly by the argument that we would be out of the EU if we left and that it would take years and years to get back in, if Spain even let us (all of which was and remains a bunch of old unionist cobblers).

Times may change, but rogues be constant.

@Citizen of Nowhere

"The country was sold down the river by a clique of aristocrats who had political and financial interests south of the border which had always existed, but intensified after the Union of the Crowns"

Didnt they also screw up their economy badly which made a union more desirable?

"The 2014 referendum was won partly by the "vow" (made in bad faith by the unionists) that something close to devo max would be implemented if Scotland remained and partly by the argument that we would be out of the EU if we left and that it would take years and years to get back in"

While independence was to be anything but independence while expecting the UK to shoulder the cost of a plan that didnt add up. But it is true that Scotland would have been out of the EU if they left the UK.

"Times may change, but rogues be constant."

We know. If Scotland wanted independence they should have let England vote too. Although their wet dreams of the UK funding their strop would have been laughed off even harder.

>We know. If Scotland wanted independence they should have let England vote too. Although their wet dreams of the UK funding their strop would have been laughed off even harder.

Good to see the condescension remains as unchanged as the roguery . Only to be expected, of course :-)

Since being a member of the EU and being in the single market are completely independent that's a very odd comment to make.

Indeed the leave campaigns all explicitly stated that there was never any question of leaving the customs union.

And that's ignoring the fact that you don't "surrender" to a political union - you join it and, in our case, have a very significant say in how the whole thing is run.

In the same way that you "surrender" to your family when you choose to settle down and have kids.

@AC

"Since being a member of the EU and being in the single market are completely independent that's a very odd comment to make."

And who is in charge of the single market? Which in itself inflicts quotas and tariffs which hurt the member countries and blocks out those terrible foreigners.

"Indeed the leave campaigns all explicitly stated that there was never any question of leaving the customs union."

Erm- https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

"And that's ignoring the fact that you don't "surrender" to a political union - you join it"

And we left it. While they seek to increase their control over member countries and seek to transfer more sovereignty to the central overlords.. erm... gov.

"In the same way that you "surrender" to your family when you choose to settle down and have kids."

That I did get a choice in. Just as I got a choice in voting to leave. We never voted to join the political union though.

"Without surrendering ..."

Away with your war analogies!

@Spaceman9

"Away with your war analogies!"

While you can surrender in war you can also surrender without war. Not a war analogy, just an observation.

No it is not an observation. It is the language that was used throughout the brexit campain. It was quite simply use to refame the debate as a battle of some kind. Heroic brits fighting against the imperialist EU.

@Spaceman9

"No it is not an observation"

So you (whoever you are) are telling me what I observe or dont? Psychic?

"It is the language that was used throughout the brexit campain."

I can believe it was used as people observed UK sovereignty had been surrendered to the EU. Some may have tried to frame it to sound as a battle I wouldnt be shocked.

"Heroic brits fighting against the imperialist EU."

This really did seem to be a thing that occupied the minds of staunch remainers. They seemed to have some obsession with WW1/2 and also kept referring to going backwards to the 1970's too. I never understood their desire over all that.

"This really did seem to be a thing that occupied the minds of staunch remainers. They seemed to have some obsession with WW1/2 and also kept referring to going backwards to the 1970's too. I never understood their desire over all that."

Your memory is dodgy. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2020/01/31/ww2-has-become-a-rallying-point-for-leavers-it-need-not-have-been-so/

@monty75

"Your memory is dodgy"

Sorry nope. Constant conversations with remainers even before the vote resulted in them bringing up the wars and going back in time. Feel free to go through the ever long posting history if you like. But your blog link sounds like a sore remoaner who studies history and is going on about the war. Exactly the situation I describe.

Turkey is part of the CU as a result of a specific bilateral treaty: no surrender.

Billions of VAT have been lost because the UK doesn't dare enforce its own border controls as to do so would risk food supplies: surrender.

@Warm Braw

"Turkey is part of the CU as a result of a specific bilateral treaty: no surrender."

Well said. They wanted to join and so they did.

"Billions of VAT have been lost because the UK doesn't dare enforce its own border controls as to do so would risk food supplies: surrender."

I recall food supply concerns recently over Ukraine and before that complaints of empty shelves because of covid. Maybe the gov isnt as dumb as it looks. However do you have a source?

Maybe the gov isnt as dumb as it looks

Lets be fair, you're not exactly setting a high bar there are you? That is to say that this mob do such a fantastic job of looking so freaking dumb that to actually be more dumb than that would be quite an achievement.

@Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble?

"Lets be fair, you're not exactly setting a high bar there are you?"

Couldnt slip an atom of oxygen under it :)

"That is to say that this mob do such a fantastic job of looking so freaking dumb that to actually be more dumb than that would be quite an achievement."

As I say further down, I am worried there isnt even an opposition and we are stuck with this 'situation' continuing.

Do you have a source?

These will probably do for a start...

https://www.export.org.uk/news/600642/Government-considering-further-delay-to-SPS-checks-on-EU-agrifoods-to-avoid-supply-chain-disaster-.htm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-pragmatic-new-timetable-for-introducing-border-controls

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-14/u-k-delays-brexit-border-checks-on-eu-goods-as-shortages-hit

https://theloadstar.com/uk-exchequer-may-have-lost-up-to-30bn-of-vat-via-non-declarations/

http://www.fruitnet.com/fpj/article/187157/border-controls-threaten-supply

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/border-consequences-brexit

@Warm Braw

"These will probably do for a start..."

Cheers. Always happy to know more.

"https://www.export.org.uk/news/600642/Government-considering-further-delay-to-SPS-checks-on-EU-agrifoods-to-avoid-supply-chain-disaster-.htm"

According to a government source quoted by The Independent: “Ministers are looking at this again in the light of cost of living pressures and supply chain pressures.”

It added that “the war in Ukraine has also changed the economic context.”

Meanwhile, the Food and Drink Federation has said that a delay is justified due to the crisis in Ukraine, which has massively impacted supplies of wheat, sunflower oil and fish.

I had suspicions Ukraine may affect the reasoning.

"https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-pragmatic-new-timetable-for-introducing-border-controls"

Global pandemic has affected supply chains in the UK and across Europe

Again I suspected.

"http://www.fruitnet.com/fpj/article/187157/border-controls-threaten-supply"

New UK border controls could delay European food imports, industry leaders warn

Yup, that is saying the gov is doing a good job delaying the checks.

Interestingly the sources you posted all seem to confirm the same thing. Feel quite surprised how accurate my guess was as it was just a quick guess from the top of my head.

Has this system ever worked ?

It can't possibly have, given the timescales between knowing what it had to do (January 2020) and now.

People of Kent had better get used to this as the new normal. Except when it's worse.

What's the money on the UK fudging that date ..

Again.

?

The Gift that keeps on Giving.

Obviously I can’t prove it, but I knew this would be the case having sat on a couple of calls with HRMC about it a few months ago.

So the brexit referendum was 2016 and the release was done in stages starting 2020. The old system lasting almost quarter of a decade. In 2010 HMRC decided to replace CHIEF with a more advanced version but not much to say about that as I dont see much by way of information nor progress.

Dont you hate it when a change comes out of the blue to something that was so fit for purpose it didnt need replacing. However that doesnt apply in this case.

"The old system lasting almost quarter of a decade."

What 2.5 years?

I would not call that old.

Perhaps you meant "a quarter of a century"?

@nematoad

"What 2.5 years?

I would not call that old.

Perhaps you meant "a quarter of a century"?"

Thankfully Friday. Good catch

Is that a rebranding exercise for HMRC? Do they have a nice shiny new logo?

another brexit win................................

As mentioned above, the vote to leave happened 6 years ago and was never going to go away. That should be long enough to figure out what has to change and pay for the systems to do it. Intransigence and incompetence are the things to blame.

"Intransigence and incompetence are the things to blame."

Oh, you mean the government?

Yes, that about sums this lot up, and we still have another two years to put up with them.

@nematoad

"Yes, that about sums this lot up, and we still have another two years to put up with them."

What worries me is the lack of any opposition. We may end up with this lot as is for longer because of an alternative. Its not like this gov hasnt given plenty of opportunities for an opposition party of any size to bash them hard.

The vote might have been 6 years ago, but the negotiations didn't complete until the very last minute with ministers changing their minds, or at least the message, every few weeks in the months leading up to it and publicly taking all positions on a spectrum from reverting to WTO rules to staying in the customs union. If I remember correctly the Northern Ireland situation happened very late in the day, so even if there had been some preemptive speccing and development by HMRC, a lot of it would probably have gone up in smoke at that point.

It would have been a brave person who signed off a set of requirements before the exit deal was signed and the implications understood - and I don't assume or believe that the implications on trade (or, indeed, anything much) were understood before the deal was signed.

"According to The Guardian, GVMS has suffered a systems outage since it was temporarily taken offline during an update to another HMRC customs system, handling import and export freight, known as Chief."

So sometime. maybe months ago, someone made a change to a configuration file or startup script which caused the system to fail the next time it was rebooted? And I don't suppose such a teeny-weeny tweak ever got documented?

"... the department responsible for GVMS, told the paper its IT systems were stable ..."

I suppose being down is stable, in a sense. That's a hell of a way to put a positive spin on it!

"Stable" also explains the vague whiff of horseshit.

"Updated to add at 16:00 on April 18, 2022

A HMRC spokesperson told us the system is back online: "Following an outage last week, we have successfully made changes ..."

So, another 10 days before they figure-out which VM didn't restart.

By the way, could you let me have the winning Euromillions numbers for tonight please?

Never mind that. I want my 10 days back!

"Updated to add at 16:00 on April 18, 2022"

Just after Easter weekend.... so maybe they discovered the Easter Egg that was left in GVMS by some contractors that got shafted by IR35.

coined the phrase "We cannot muddle through this time" . Since that time it appears that this has been adopted as the mantra for many things from Britain.

For younger readers, Mosley was was an English politician, known principally as the founder of the British Union of Fascists. He was Labour Member of Parliament for Harrow from 1918 to 1924, for Smethwick from 1926 to 1931 later becoming the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in the Labour Government of 1929-31.