... all of them are trying to invade users' "Ukraines" to test how much the resistance if going to fight. If they see they can get past the lines easily enough, they are going to stay for ever.

Join us in the Free World. (Standard explanation, Libre > Gratis.) We don't have to tolerate this shit.

I always think to myself, if I wasn't a fan of tech who was happy to waste hours of my life, would I put up with tacky adverts in Windows 11 or use Gnome 3... Which one is more wasteful of resources? Gnome 3's "triple buffering" isn't exactly tempting. KDE (since 4.x) is also a heavy monster.

I really do hate them all. It is 2022 and the interface of Windows NT 4.0 from ~1996 was arguably more crisp, more consistent and used less than 16MB of RAM.

Light WM and predominantly command line is what I have settled with but I am not thrilled by it.

Gnome and KDE have always been heavyweights, relative to the PCs of the day. But then I've always thought that each Windows release was designed for next year's computers too.

I've also always preferred a lightweight desktop. There's that freedom worship-word again, we each get to decide.

I am using KDE, and it does not seem laggy or slow on the PC. The laptop is 7 years old, and does everything i want unhindered by the OS and front end.

> I really do hate them all. It is 2022 and the interface of Windows NT 4.0 from ~1996 was arguably more crisp, more consistent and used less than 16MB of RAM.

Nostalgia ain't always what it used to be. Personally, I run a lot more stuff than I did back in 1996. At a much higher resolution than the 1024*768 CRT I had at the time.

And across three monitors and two graphics cards, to boot. And then there's all the stuff in the background, like realtime audio mixing, etc.

Modern GUIs may chew up a lot more resources than they used to, but they're also dealing with a lot of stuff - and adding a lot of value-add stuff to boot. Even if (as with office software), everyone uses a different subset of said features.

OTOH, my preferred dev environment is a Terminal window with a dozen tabs on it, most of which are running Vi. Swings and roundabouts, or somesuch...

XFCE4 is almost fine. Getting rid of the icons is easy (desktop icons are always inaccessible because there is an application window on top). Getting rid of the last panel requires a quick web search (panels use up space that I want for the application on that virtual desktop). A few minutes setup and I have a window manager that does only what I want it to do.

KDE is not that bad compared to other software. The resource hogs are browsers.

Is any supported version Windows better than KDE? I doubt it.

XFCE works nicely, but I have moved back to KDE because it work more smoothly and with less hassle than any other DE (on any OS) that I have tried. Even more so if you use KDE apps because they interoperate well (e.g. from the file manager I can right click on a file and send it to a mobile device through KDE Connect) and the number of shared libraries means they are not memory hog mogs. It has good support for things like remote filesystems (including sftp which is really usefull) , lots of useful features and widgets (screen colour changes, quite a few actually useful widgets etc.)

As long as you're not [1]using Ubuntu that is

[1] https://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-under-fire-for-putting-ads-in-the-ubuntu-motd-530372.shtml

Yeah, I thought about adding that. I haven't looked at Ubuntu for so long that I didn't know if they still do it or not.

The worst advertisers of the world are fully exploiting FOSS to power their users exploitation and ads slinging systems and networks. Without FOSS, they could not probably scale so much because the sheer software costs would have blocked them well before, or they would have to invest a lot of money into writing their own. So beware what you wish.... it could come with a lot of poisons attached.

... successful computing professionals choose FOSS because it scales, it works and it is cheaper.

Microsoft used to say that malware slingers used FOSS. What IT purchasers heard was "professionals skilled in IT security choose FOSS".

If software does not do what I want my choices are:

FOSS) Fix it myself or hire a programmer at a competitive rate to fix it.

Proprietary) Beg the monopoly supplier to fix it. Buy the next version and hope the fix is included and new breakages aren't.

Perhaps the worst advertisers of the world are not entirely dim.

"FOSS) Fix it myself or hire a programmer at a competitive rate to fix it."

Can't remember having to fix anything. It must be pushing 20 years since I wrote a line of C and that's because I was being paid. This stuff Just Works these days.

"Proprietary) Beg the monopoly supplier to fix it. Buy the next version and hope the fix is included and new breakages aren't."

Well, if you want to beg Microsoft to fix things, good luck. Personally, I'll stick with the FOSS route.

Edit: I'll just throw this in. One thing I did like about Windows back in the day was the cardfile program. It's one thing they dropped along the way. I don't think it can be made to run at all in W10. And that is one thing I have just written for myself - using Lazarus. If I had any reason to I could port it to Windows.

Tried. Ended up with a number of computers that won't start unless I re-install windows and a bunch of people sneering at me when I had the audacity to ask for help.

It's a pity, because I'm all too aware of the situation with Windows, but until I can find a Linux that I can install from a USB that detects and sets itself up for the hardware I'm trying to install it on with minimal intervention, I'm stuck...

Added functionality doesn't get there accidentally. Somebody has to write it and, bugs apart, that's likely to be deliberate. This is a little too elaborate for a bug. Unless whoever coded it was sneaking something in for their own gratification we must assume they were told to. Telling them to do so must surely imply that usage was at least considered.

Where then is the scope for accident? Possibly exposing it at this stage? Hmmm...

This is a little too elaborate for a bug.

Wow, that must be the understatement of the year... ehm, decade.

Not only is someone coding the front-end, but there is a whole back-end infrastructure too. You only get to do this when the "boss" is involved. Considering this is microsoft, a lot of bosses at many levels and departments are involved. The programmers (just) implement what is requested.

"Accidents" of this magnitude are less probable than an alien species making first contact and visiting our beloved earth next week.

Indeed. Features don't happen by accident.

"Oops, I threw together some random lines of code and they started displaying ads" doesn't cut it. If there was an "experiment", it was clearly to see how much protest this will trigger, and to progressively desensitize the victims enough ("oh, that old thing again") to make it a standard feature.

Features don't happen by accident.

Unless... Microsoft's programmer staff has grown to infinity and all the monkeys are hitting the keyboard.

This week its advertising, next week they will produce the collective works of Shakespeare, which they will advertise, in the file explorer, as their own innovation of literature, of course.

Y'know, I think you might have cracked it.

Added functionality doesn't get there accidentally. Somebody has to write it and, bugs apart, that's likely to be deliberate.

But it could have been an unofficial side project by someone on the team that accidentally got left enabled. Dog knows how many ideas and quick tests of mine have ended up shipping because it turned out other people liked them too.

Nobody tries out stuff like this in different parts of the GUI unless there is a requirement - or do MS not develop to requirements?

It's a bit like 150,000 soldiers rolling up to your border "for exercises".

Why are microsoft hell bent on pissing off their customers, this is why I've not upgraded my Windows gaming VM to 11.

Maybe 2023 will be the year of the Linux desktop after all, its been my main desktop since 2019 and I see no reason to go back to Windows

They're not. They don't give a tinker's cuss about their customers - they're interested in revenue, and whether we're pissed off never even crosses their minds. They have their users cornered and it costs them nothing to pump promo at them. There's always a chance that some of the suckers will sign up to what's advertised, and in the meantime it's promoted at zero cost.

Because they can, that's why. And they know very well there's nothing you can do about it.

It's good to be the king.

Because almost everyone capable of switching to Linux already has. The remaining customers are already securely tied over a barrel. Microsoft can do whatever they want and only a miniscule proportion of their victims will break free.

"Nice collection of important data you have there. Be a shame if anything were to happen to it. Have you seen our comprehensive range of security / anti-virus / backup / cloud storage choices?"

They already do this. Maybe not using these exact words, but the intents and results are the same.

Windows file manager is crap compared to the competition on other OS, still not an option for opening multiple tabs? Come on MS this feature has been in most Linux file managers for years.

Stop spending all your time trying to fleece your users out of a few more pennies with ads and actually improve your software.

> actually improve your software

Why?

Why on earth would they go through that hassle and expense? To sell more?...

I use KDE and Dolphin. Have multiple tabs open accessing information regularly, and could not go back to Windows use regularly.

I have a windows PC and three instances of file manager open which is an absolute pain when copying and remembering which windows has what location in it.

"Windows file manager is crap compared to the competition on other OS, ..."

What alternative file manager would you suggest, for those of us who have to use Windows for one reason or another?

I thought multiple tabs in file manager was one of the latest catch-ups. Taken long enough.

Maybe it's Microsoft's way of encouraging everybody to use the command line more...?

c:\> rmdir c:\windows /S /Q

done

I can't wait for Windows update to need a spam filter, honestly.

It's just typical of the arrogance of many companies these days. It is MY device, no data collection, no data should leave the device other than what is necessary ( really necessary, not additional info that has been decided by recipient of the request) to deliver or do the requested task. No adverts, if I have not asked for it should not be there. The OS is just the conduit between the meat sack in the chair and the hardware of the computer without requiring any online connection. About time OS developers realised this, everything else is bloatware. If I want a feature I can add it, download open source, or buy software, or install a feature at setup phase if I WANT it.

The push from a Windows install to hand over your life story and control to your data created in the use of your computer for ads etc is too much yet for some reason it qualifies as "legitimate interest".

MS & everyone else can stick their legitimate interest along with OS ads where the sun don't shine.

Your device, their software.

You buy the device and license the software.

Don't like it? Grab a Linux distro or write your own OS.

I suspect that Splurg is another of those of us who've done so.

Yes that is correct it is MY device and THEIR software. Still doesn't excuse the unreasonable, unjustifiable data grabs, forced monetising of users, pushing of adverts into MY device. Its also correct that many, many companies do NOT respect the fact that the consumer OWNS the device. See moodern cars, TVs, Watches, media players, Tablets, phones etc. Almost every single device, even ones you fully own, still only pretend to be your possession as the makers refuse to give up control over it.

Yes been using Mint as a main driver when I can for many years now.

There should be no setting to hunt down.

Any optional software should be on the Store. People know about Stores. Let them search for their own upgrades.

The OS is only there to make the computer function. Stop confusing it with a sales pitch.

For those who can remember trying to get through boring shifts, Solitaire & FreeCell were essential on Windows 7. Have a look at what they have done to them in Solitaire Collection for a taste of what an Ad strewn Windows might look like in the future. Imagine opening an application which triggers a video advert (with sound) which you have to let complete before the app loads. That's what the Windows future looks like.

This is concerning, and Microsoft do have form for this. They already slipped ads into the start menu for Windows 10. I can't remember seeing any in the start menu for Windows 11, but I don't currently have access to a Windows 11 machine so can't check, but I don't think there should be adverts in any part of the Windows interface.

Apple do not do this, but they do ensure that the App Store is easily accessible. Microsoft need to do the same. If Microsoft don't make enough money from Windows (and I don't believe that for a second) then fine, charge for it. Don't pretend it's free, then include advertising all over it..

Microsoft has been an abusive partner for decades. Your friends have been recommending that you walk away. Try it a little at a time and later decide if you really enjoy being abused over an alternative.

Some in the LGBTQ+ communities might not like that ...

Agreed, we need singular numeric - unary - computing. No need for computers to be entrenched in the gender discussions by offering holes (0) and pins (1).

Neutral computing it is. Holes are best because both computer and digits can hide recursively in the holes of the digits. Mine is the one with all 0 on zero sides and insides as well.

M$ will keep pushing this in some form or another until it IS accepted by a small minority, and everybody has to live with it. I hate looking at the pre-login screen of my win10 install( used rarely) but I have "Like what you see?" See how Hololens2 bla bla.... Micro$oft is using the power of holographic blaaaa blah... Win10 is as far as I will go with M$.

Even if someone pushed the "wrong button", someone else still decided to develop the feature and putting it one click away from deployment.

Also, don't forget to put it into the context of the mandatory MS account for Windows 11 (Pro? We'll see...).

Lowly coder by day... Chaos thrill seeker by night. Rogue Engineer the biggest software companies and unleashes his mad code to the unsuspecting masses.

From slurping WIFI data via Google cars to slipping ads in Microsoft's workhorse OS. In any tech company, he is everyone and he is no one!

Where will he strike next? Find it next week!

Same Rogue-time, same Rogue-channel

The Rejects of Redmond are making it very obvious the less I deal with them the better off the happier I will be and less damage that criminal organization can do to me.

Even if someone pushed the "wrong button", someone decided to develop the feature and put it one click away from deployment...

Also, don't forget to put it into the context of mandatory Microsoft accounts for Windows 11 (Pro? We'll see...).

P.S. As much as people like to dislike, MS is playing catch up here. Don't hate the player, hate the game®.