This is going to create a windows 7 situation again, why would institutions want to juggle this BS when W10 already works and doesn't have these arbitrary stupidity moments.

W10 will be phased out just like all the rest. Made un-usable and un-safe.

You didn't read the article, but if you're suggesting that Microsoft is sleazy and will move these requirements to all OS versions... no comment.

However, this is for the people who sleep with MS embroidered pillows and have stints around their necks to disallow a change of vision. It's for the insiders build (for now at least).

Let's be real for a second. If you're running the "Insider's Pro" version of Microsoft anything, odds are you don't want to understand anything about a computer, don't want to have to use a computer and are the type who isn't of technical or analytical mind. So of course you'll need that internet connection to give Microsoft control of your computer because, you can't. Sounds crazy but, I agree with Microsoft... they shouldn't be allowed to use computers.

The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers.

and nope. And nope again.

get off the computer. only connect to the web from older macs. its the only way to remain free. don't trust the newer macs. the problem is they have indoctrinated the younger generation with video games and gambling. This is what happens when you lock everyone inside and put them on a computer, we become vulnerable as a society. welcome to the end times.

a thought just occurred to me... el reg should utilize its power by doing a linux/unix poll and discussion about which versions of linux/unix everyone uses. If we are able to centralize the majority of users on a version, it might be encouraging to developers.

I think the issue is that various distributions tend to just say "We're doing X now" without any real consultation, and no real tangible benefits to the Linux ecosystem as a whole. Which then splinters their user base even further.

One such thing would be the use of Snap to install software on to our machines. Ubuntu, bless them, have gone all in with it. Linux Mint, quite rightly, abstained from such a decision. Ubuntu have form remember, with Unity, and have since dropped that altogether to go back to Gnome which they wanted to get away from in the first place.

What needs to happen, and to some respects does happen, is that an application should be installed regardless of the version or flavour of Linux it's being installed on. There are several applications that are available on the "Snap" store, but not as a .deb or through the command line using apt without having to jump through several hoops.

And that's all before we get on to the systemd bullshit.

> which versions of linux/unix everyone uses

Whatever it might be, I'm afraid it won't attract "developers", because open source unpaid ones only work for the pleasure of it no matter the target audience, and commercial corporations are (mis)guided by their bean counters and marketing goons who only know one single trick, attempting to copy past successes. Which means Microsoft: Windows versions did sell way better than any non-existent Linux ones, so Windows it will be, for ever and ever.

Unless maybe if Linux becomes mainstream and Windows a declining niche, but that's not going to happen anytime soon no matter how much the Windows experience deteriorates. Microsoft has already chased away everyone who wasn't willing to accept the Win8 fiasco, the remaining ones will follow it to the bitter end no matter how much Windows deteriorates, and Microsoft knows this.

This week I was looking to buy a new big PC to get the bus bandwidth and GPU power needed for some 3D development applications. I realised that W7 wouldn't be HW compatible - so W11 looked inevitable. This M$ announcement means that the new PC will be Linux only - and W7 will still run my legacy applications.

A windows 7 VM is jolly useful for this sort of thing, so long as you don't need fancy graphics in it.

I have several Core i7 desktops that can run my W7 load. Unfortunately the motherboards are PCIe 2.0 - so no upgrade path to support some of the 3D modelling capture applications' GPU specs. A new big PC would be an extravagance for just this limited need - but as a friend has said "you can't take it with you".

I was able to get Windows 7 running just fine on a Dell Precision Tower 7920 with Dual Xeon Scalable processors and booting from a PCIe NVMe drive.

So it can be done, it's just a lot more work getting everything setup fine and such initially.

Recently bought a new laptop that came with W11 Home, and had I not been able to find a workaround to stop it requiring a MS login to complete the setup, then that's as far as my foray into the world of W11 would have gone (I didn't just want to nuke it immediately, as I figured this'd be a good opportunity to see just how good/bad it really is in daily use) and I'd have been setting up a USB stick with a Linux installer...

It's one thing to require an internet connection during startup, to help pull in the latest updates there and then, but quite another to also require signing into *any* sort of account, let alone a specific type of account that many of us won't already have and don't particularly want.

Just this week I bought my wife a new laptop. It came with Windows 11. I didn't even boot into 11, I just plugged in a thumb drive and loaded Mint.

No more new Windows machines in our household. I still have a few Windows 7 PCs, but once they are not useful anymore, they will get replaced with Linux PCs.

I just sent my 83 year old father in law a new laptop. He had a fairly new Dell with Windows 10, and he was so sick of the constant updates and forced reboots, that he stopped using it altogether. He told us that Windows 10 took all of the joy out of having a computer. His new laptop has Mint on it, and he really loves it. He is the most non-technical user you could find, and he finds Mint much easier to use than Windows. I was even able to get his favorite games to run in Wine.

I'm not some Linux zealot. I've made my career as a Windows network admin, but Windows is no longer fit for purpose as an Operating System.

I notice that El Reg updated their article to say Internet Connection as opposed to Microsoft Account needed. Good. Ars has it wrong but you have it right. I have tested the latest preview myself and can confirm local accounts can still be created (Use Domain Join: https://imgur.com/a/JQVxytx) but this new requirement still sets a chilling precedent.

I'd rather have the shitness of Wayland/Xorg than the shitness of being forced online to be spied on. It looks like LTSC 2022 will be the final stopgap for my gaming PC until Linux is ready in a few years to come.

(and no, Linux really isn't ready yet for running legacy Windows games but it's very very close)

fantastic post.

I think the reason for requiring an MS account is the same as the way they're pushing Edge so hard... they feel that with the antitrust case so far behind them they can start trying to destroy all the other players in the market again. I'm not sure that, long term, this is such a sensible strategy.

doesn't have to be sensible, all it has is to be profitable.

Well considering Egde is effectively Chrome with a skin, it would be very hard to rule it as anticompetative.

They said telemetry and surveillance in developer versions for W8 and W10 were temporary. They were flat wrong.

MS gets multi-billions of dollars in revenue from corporate and government accounts all over the world. They don't need personal home users for revenue at all, except as ad data collection targets and to satisfy fee based government surveillance mandates.

Sure, MS will lose a handful of users to Apple, Linux and what not, but....the barrel or corporate and agency users will stay full to the top.

The main (and only) goal of a capitalist company is to make profit and the CEO is legally bound to maximize the value of the company so you can't say Microsoft does not need home users for revenue. Their goal is to extract revenue from every single PC user using Windows and Linux. Only revenue from Mac users will be left to Apple.

bit of a myth there

The only legal duty of the directors is to not allow the company to commit fraud while trading.

There's no legal duty for them to ensure a profit is made.

(of course the shareholders wont be happy... unless they're happy the company makes a loss)

Not without a lawsuit, that is.

Tying the installation of an OS to having a proprietary online account is veering straight into monopolistic behavior . . . again.

As usual Borkzilla is confusing itself with a black hole. The difference is, there's nothing a judge can do against a black hole.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

In order to sue MS for monopolistic behaviour, you will need to proof their tactics are causing harm to the competition. So, who's being hurt by this ? Besides that, MS lawyers will tell the court they're doing it to increase security of home PCs, preventing hacker attacks on public infrastructure, think of the children and so on. Who can possibly oppose such good deeds ?

Probably in a decade or less, all PCs will be nothing more than dumb terminals attached to MS cloud services. And WSL will make sure Linux users will be forced to login with a MS account too.

The Pro versions of Windows haven't been so in my eyes since Windows 7. Because as soon as the supposedly professional version of Windows 10 came with Candy crush and all the ads plastered over the start menu it no longer was a pro version in other than its name.

I can't comment about 8 pro as never tried it for more than 30 seconds after seeing the stupid whole screen start menu I removed it and went back to 7.

Well, the strategy is clearly giving less for more and reminding people that it's their way or the highway.

It's a de facto monopoly, even if there are two other players out there; But they aren't freely interchangeable. You can't simply decide which OS you'll use like you chose what model car you'll drive.

As these are insider builds for development purposes, wouldn't people need a M$ account anyway to get access to them?

Perhaps it's just me being thick but so long as it's only the dev/insider (and not the regularly shipped version) what's the problem?

> so long as it's only the dev/insider (and not the regularly shipped version) what's the problem?

Apparently it's that dev/insider versions prefigure what the main versions will eventually become, so there is a chance this is a sign of things to come.

"While there is much to be gained from a Microsoft account..."

A jest perhaps? 'Gainful' in the sense of hotmail & skype?

Never thought to read a comment such as this on El Reg...

"...forcing it upon users leaves a bad taste. "

That's an understatement, if ever there was. The reprehensible Product Activation (since XP) put everyone on notice of the shape of things to come; yet it now seems the majority are resigned, if not conditioned, to accept such behaviour.

Sad, very sad.

I was bemused by the suggestion One Drive is a benefit.

At work, where it's used to corporate purposes and the company incurs all the risks? Sure.

At home? It's a blatant attack vector against my privacy. Not happening.

Is like there was a meeting in Microsoft and someone said "Hey how could we make people not use Windows 11?"

There are a lot of systems that never connect to any network.

I have a few of them at the current job and these are not allowed anywhere near the corporate network (a lot of reasons) so it looks like when the time comes to replace them, it certainly won't be Win11. I regularly get the 'pro' version as it does not require an internet connection to get the system up and running which is precisely what my internal customers want.

Those few that are permitted access to the network are on a switch with a firewall that prevents access beyond the internal network.

Most of these are dedicated automated test equipment control boxes so IT doesn't want to know when we need replacement systems as most corporate rules would prevent them from doing their assigned tasks so they cannot get a 'standard' corporate build.

Looks like I will be migrating those over to a Linux distro of some description when the time comes for replacements. There will be a bit of short term pain (migrating some code that drives the equipment).

I really need to set up a test box or two to see if the heavy duty stuff from National Instruments (LabVIEW) will work under Wine.

Ah - it appears that I can simply migrate the licenses as it is supported for [1]some distributions natively.

[1] https://www.ni.com/en-gb/support/documentation/compatibility/20/labview-and-linux-os-compatibility.html