UK government responds to post-Brexit concerns and of course it's all the fault of those pesky EU negotiators
- Reference: 1643370310
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2022/01/28/horizons_response/
- Source link:
[2]The original report turned up in October 2021 and highlighted the costs incurred as Brexit negotiations went on. The UK was given the nod for participation in the likes of Horizon (the EU's big research fund) and Copernicus (the EU's Earth Observation programme), however approval allowing UK entities to actually bid is still lacking.
The [3]maximum financial endowment of Horizon Europe is €95.5bn. Copernicus was reported as being €5.4bn in the original report. The majority of the UK's contribution to these and other programmes would normally have been expected to flow back into Blighty's coffers. But these are not normal times.
[4]
One stumbling block was the negotiations over the Northern Ireland protocol. Until resolved, funding streams to British institutions would remain closed despite a potential backdating of UK contributions to the start of 2021.
[5]
[6]
The UK government has now responded to the report, and agreed with many of its recommendations. And yet the delays seem set to continue.
The response is big on rhetoric and promises, with assurances that lawmakers will be kept up to date on the size of the UK's liabilities and costs of settlements, but still lays the blame on the doorstep of the European Union, describing itself as "disappointed there have been persistent delays" from the bloc.
[7]
Still, funding would be guaranteed where bids for Horizon Europe funds were successful but grant agreements could not be signed, it added.
[8]UK science suffers as lawmakers continue to dither over Brexit negotiations
[9]Key pillar in the UK's border control upgrade programme 'lacks a systems integrator'
[10]Hauliers report problems with post-Brexit customs system but HMRC insists it is 'online and working as planned'
[11]Intel's €80bn European chip plant investment plan not bound for UK because Brexit
And the Northern Ireland negotiations? The report asked for clarification on the status and an estimate on when they might conclude. Whitehall responded that they were "ongoing and at an advanced stage."
Not ideal and, frankly, things don't seem to have moved forward an awful lot since October last year.
Sir Bill Cash, European Scrutiny Committee chairman, welcomed the government's agreement with the recommendations, but was less than impressed with progress. "The EU's obstruction of the UK's association with Horizon remains," he said.
"This was agreed to by both parties in the Trade and Cooperation Agreement and is still to be implemented more than a year after its introduction. Meanwhile, the incalculable cost of non-participation continues to rise.
[12]
"It has been three months since we first reported the issue and we ask the government to lay out concrete steps it will take to ensure the UK's participation in Horizon as a matter of urgency." ®
Get our [13]Tech Resources
[1] https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/69/european-scrutiny-committee/news/160535/committee-publishes-government-response-to-brexit-divorce-bill-report/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/27/uk_brexit_horizons/
[3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/research-and-innovation/funding/funding-opportunities/funding-programmes-and-open-calls/horizon-europe_en
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YfQhRXbp9Px254YnbmnhzQAAAJM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YfQhRXbp9Px254YnbmnhzQAAAJM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YfQhRXbp9Px254YnbmnhzQAAAJM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YfQhRXbp9Px254YnbmnhzQAAAJM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/27/uk_brexit_horizons/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/14/uk_border_upgrade_confusion/
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/05/hauliers_gvms_problems/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/07/intels_80bn_european_chip_plant/
[12] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/science&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YfQhRXbp9Px254YnbmnhzQAAAJM&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[13] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
For me venting a bit makes me slightly less frustrated about my country of my birth trying its hardest to shoot itself in the foot.
As an expat there are also frustrations caused by Brexit which have a negative effect on my life...
Do you ( as a group ) have to be so tedious about it though?
Making the same "jokes" over and over that you read in the comments section of The Guardian, for instance.
You're not suggesting that there are Guardian readers who are also are users of this forum?
I suppose it was inevitable that would get posted before any other comments had been made.
If it makes one person rethink their life rather than re-posting a "hilarious" play on words that they read on Twitter, it will have been worth it.
Who needs plays on words, hilarious or otherwise to disparage an action by a British government that was ill thought out (if at all), poorly negotiated and so far not fully executed and with few or no clear aims as to what constitutes Britains new found freedom and the directions it can and should take from European influence?
Please downvote as much as you like as a thumb down is about the most potent thing most of you have.
Brexiters can't be choosers.
@Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells
Looks like you had some effect. 40 mins and only 8 comments
Re: @Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells
The commentariat trusts you'll fix that soon now that this article is on your radar.
a little maths might help.. as a percenatge of the popuilation, Brexit was supposedly supported by 37%(ish).
Would you not expect comments anywhere reasonably accessible to everyone (like El Reg. and excluding places that are flagged one way or the other) to be 63% (+however many who, in the light of post 2016 events, have since changed opinion) opposed to the idea?
Explain your working and give reasons for your choice...
Applying the very same logic you could claim that Remain was supported by 36%(ish).
Remember: Non voters by definition do not count. And what little research exists on their hypothetical votes, it appears that they would not change results too much. After all, they did not even bother to vote, so why would you expect strong opinions either way?
OK I'll bite.
I wanted to vote in 2016. As a British citizen living in the EU, I had decided that it was not right for me to vote in UK general elections. Why should I, who pays not taxes in the UK, or use any services there, be able to decide who should sit in a government that regulates such things? This decision cost me the right to vote in a referendum that really did impact my life.
Ehm...99% of Leave voters were also living in the EU. That's what the whole vote was about.
26% of the UK population voted to Leave the EU. The rest voted Remain, did not vote or could not vote.
You can expect a significant chunk of that 74% (over 47 million people) to occasionally post comments showing their dissatisfaction with what is happening to their country. That's how democracy works.
> so why would you expect strong opinions either way?
That only matters if we were talking about another vote - we're talking about comments on a forum.
Even those who didn't feel strongly enough to go out and vote at the time are likely to hold an opinion, and it doesn't need a strong opinion to have a grumble about how Brexit's negatively affected them.
It's weird one too, because whilst 36%ish voted for Brexit, it's not a given that all (or even the majority) of those support the Brexit that we've been delivered, so you might also see them grumbling in comments (even if they'd still vote for Brexit given another chance).
Had British citizens resident in the EU been given a vote as they were entitled to, we would not be in the stupid position we are in now.
Why do brexiters never stop whining?
They caused the trainwreck, the rest of us have the right to ram that fact into their every orifice, in perpetuity.
Well, at the very least you'd expect about a quarter of the population to be happy now. I think one of the most remarkable things about this Brexit episode is that it doesn't seem to have made anyone happy. Where is the jubilation? The Leave voters are still unhappy and the rest of the people too. Frankly, the country feels more unhappy now than at the start of 2016.
I find it quite amusing that your choice of handle is so apt.
Originating most likely from the comedy show Much Binding in the Marsh, it was intended as a dig at the morally outraged and conservative middle classes who would write or complain to any news paper or oganisation about almost anything no matter how trival or lacking in justifiable outrage.
I can understand the current outrage though, with any criticism of brextim reminding you of what aess it is.
Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells - 'The inevitable people with the inevitable comments that will get posted eleventy times, identically to the last article about the subject: do you not bore yourselves?'
My 'Irony Meter' just exploded—you owe me a new one.
.....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Please explain what I have failed to understand!
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
See my post above.
Was writing that post not incredibly boring for you? Did you tut and shake your head at yourself before pressing submit?
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells - instead of trying to inhibit a discussion you don't want to read, go away and do some work
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
I'm trying to inhibit a discussion that looks like this:
"Sunlit uplands".
"Brexshit"
"Boris is fat"
etc.
We can all get our fill of that by reading the Guardian's comments section, or by reading used word-of-the-day toilet paper.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
OK tell me one single way in which the UK and the majority of UK citizens have benefited from Brexit - just one unequivocal advantage.
On the finance side, Brexit so far has cost ~£300b. This far exceeds our total contributions to the EU in the 40 odd years we were a member (£213b).
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@DJO
"OK tell me one single way in which the UK and the majority of UK citizens have benefited from Brexit - just one unequivocal advantage."
UK ordered vaccines and the EU royally screwed it up. Based on the information about vaccines protecting people from severe illness and death that would be the people of the UK having the option of protection while in the EU people didnt and so would have died.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
The UK would have been free to go it alone on vaccines within the EU.
Perhaps if the UK had been in the EU, it might even have led the way in getting a region-wide deal.
The UK death rate vs. typical EU is nothing to cheer about, was that because of brexit? The UK is now dragging its heels to approve vaccines that WHO, EU, others have approved, is that because of brexit?No, of course not.
Cherry-picking the good bits and conflating with brexit makes no sense, they are not causally related.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
steady now, them unfortunate facts again... ;-)
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Empire of the Pussycat
"Cherry-picking the good bits"
This being a proven and demonstrated benefit of not being in the EU hence meeting the criteria. Another one being we are not part of the covid bailout fund where the EU takes a loan out against the member countries to distribute as it feels fit.
"The UK would have been free to go it alone on vaccines within the EU."
This nonsense again. Here we go-
To believe the UK would have gone alone on vaccines is to believe the UK is better run than every member countries government. Countries such as Germany who already made plans abandoned them to join the joint procurement. The pressure was applied to get an 'all for one' approach and you must be a UK supremacist to think the UK wouldnt.
But lets run with your hypothetical UK supremacist suggestion that we remain but go it alone on vaccine. The EU demonstrably stole and intended to steal vaccine to be exported because the EU screwed up procurement. As a result there is zero doubt the UK supply would be stolen and redistributed at EU whim because of *insert reasons* (incompetence of the EU procurement).
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
>This being a proven and demonstrated benefit of not being in the EU hence meeting the criteria.
Believing that spending more money to arrive at roughly the same end result in terms of fully vaccinated population while having amongst the highest deaths per 100,000 in Western Europe is a "benefit". There is, indeed, the kind of thinking which produced Brexit in the first place.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Citizen of Nowhere
"Believing that spending more money to arrive at roughly the same end result"
But we didnt end up at the same result. The end result was the UK got vaccine and the EU didnt. It ended up that because brexit Britain had vaccine that EU members dissented and had to play catch up. Where the UK competently ordered and received and then delivered vaccine the EU stole, accused and made a complete spectacle of themselves resulting in companies refusing to sell to them only direct to members.
"while having amongst the highest deaths per 100,000 in Western Europe"
Amongst the highest but below some EU countries. Since each country applied its own rules and of course has counted in different and interesting ways its hard to see how that would be any better under the EU (but certainly worse). However if you want to approach it that way then maybe the UK should have done the same as Sweden, who did better than even more EU countries?-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/
Since the EU would certainly have delayed vaccination and the EU relied on taking some of the production ment for the UK we can guarantee that people would have died through lack of vaccination had we remained.
"There is, indeed, the kind of thinking which produced Brexit in the first place."
Its called thinking. Scary that you would try to justify killing more people just to be part of the club.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
> Its called thinking
If you say so, not seeing much evidence. Just repeating the same story over and over, as of repetition will make believable. Seems to be popular these days.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Citizen of Nowhere
"If you say so, not seeing much evidence."
Yet again I point out serious flaws and errors in your 'interpretation' and you offer back nothing.
"Just repeating the same story over and over, as of repetition will make believable"
Maybe you should address your mistakes. They are glaringly bad
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
EU [https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#uptake-tab] 81.5%
UK [https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/] 84%
Oooh, so different! Now, deaths per 100k ...
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Bogle
Not sure what you think you are getting at there. If your suggestion is that the EU caught up then yes, and thats because they were behind they had to catch up. Also they caught up because member countries broke their agreement with the EU and ordered vaccine themselves copying the UK after the EU screwup.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
So, the UK could not have have gone it alone within the EU and if they had tried the EU would have stolen their vaccine orders and at the same time the other nation states within the EU did create their own supply lines alongside the EU one without that being stolen by the EU. That has all the coherence and objectivity of a Boris Johnson article on straight bananas.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Citizen of Nowhere
"So, the UK could not have have gone it alone within the EU and if they had tried the EU would have stolen their vaccine orders"
Which is demonstrated by the EU publicly and directly threatening and attempting to (with actual accusations of it happening) which did result in the UK even negotiating giving some of the production for the EU to keep.
Unless your trying to claim the EU didnt steal any vaccine for export nor that they were raiding facilities and issuing threats?
"at the same time the other nation states within the EU did create their own supply lines"
And you are wrong. Not at the same time. The EU procurement broke down after the UK was successful and delivering to our own population. After the success of the UK and failure of the EU (public statements again) member countries went their own way.
Your mental gymnastics to defend the EU aint going well
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
> Your mental gymnastics to defend the EU aint going well
Who’s defending the EU? All I’m pointing out is that your jingoistic interpretation of events contradicts itself. Sovereign EU nations were free to do what they decided, regardless of when and why they did so. The UK in the EU could have done same whenever and for whatever reason they decided.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@Citizen of Nowhere
"All I’m pointing out is that your jingoistic interpretation of events contradicts itself"
You were denying reality. The reality that has been observed and was on public display. Nothing in your comment actually responds to the serious deficits I pointed out in your 'interpretation' (mental gymnastics)
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Wait until you see the bill for that!
HMG ordered everything from everybody without setting any penalties for non-delivery or worrying about the cost.
Consequently we spent over 10 times as much per delivered dose.
We did have a short lead for a little while but within a month that narrow advantage had been completely squandered away.
We have the second highest rate of Covid deaths/million after the USA but I'll grant you that is more because of the morons in Westminster but overall we would have been a lot better off being part of the EU scheme.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@DJO
I take from your comment you now agree an unequivocal advantage of brexit which you recognise with 'We did have a short lead for a little'. So now your another commenter who can stop claiming there are no benefits or you have no idea of any benefits etc.
"Wait until you see the bill for that!"
So kill em all because they aint worth saving? AZ vaccine produced at cost but yes the UK ordered vaccine (the EU still hadnt signed for the orders 3 months later!).
"HMG ordered everything from everybody without setting any penalties for non-delivery or worrying about the cost."
Yes. Thats because there was a pandemic and people wanted vaccine. The vaccines being developed faster than ever before for an unknown virus. The EU approach was to order limited amounts (rejecting more!) because the French dictated theirs must be bought in the quantity of others (the French one didnt work while others already had promising candidates).
"Consequently we spent over 10 times as much per delivered dose."
And got some. While the EU flailed and cried (and they did so publicly) the UK and US (and Israel!!) actually got vaccine. The EU embarrassed itself in court for not understanding its own contracts and failed to order vaccine as it was ment to. Even stepping in to tell Dublin they could not cross the border to actually get vaccinated in the UK where we had vaccine!!!
"We did have a short lead for a little while but within a month that narrow advantage had been completely squandered away."
How? The UK got vaccinated and is opening back up. Not much narrow about our advantage nor was it a short lead.
"but overall we would have been a lot better off being part of the EU scheme."
I am not sure how you can try to justify this. More deaths, having to then order our own vaccines but later (EU members followed our lead) and have whatever we order stolen by the EU. You must be trippin.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
So an advantage for about a month and a disadvantage for several years is a positive result?
The overall death rate per million in the UK is far higher - you think that is an advantage?
We spent about 10 times as much for a worse result - you think that is an advantage?
...UK got vaccinated and is opening back up...
Far far too soon, totally for political reasons, there is NO medical evidence to suggest opening up now is a good idea - I'll guarantee the infection rate will soar in the next month or so.
But this has little to do with Brexit more the staggering incompetence of the current Tory party "leadership", the same "leadership" that gave us Brexit just to placate a few back benchers.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@DJO
"So an advantage for about a month and a disadvantage for several years is a positive result?"
Thats plain bull. Continued advantage and your claiming disadvantage. You seem seriously biased in your exaggerated view of disadvantage and understatement of advantage. But still you wanted an example of an advantage, you do admit an advantage as much as you try to talk it down, so I expect you now wont be claiming not to know of any advantages?
"The overall death rate per million in the UK is far higher - you think that is an advantage?"
Than what? Its lower than some EU countries. Each country made their own decisions in reaction to the pandemic not the EU, but I assume by your statement you think we should have done the Sweden model which worked better than ours?
"We spent about 10 times as much for a worse result - you think that is an advantage?"
Where is the worse result? Thats an amusing claim when you even accepted there was while trying to downplay it. Again you seem happy with more death to save money, your choice. The EU and member countries seemed to disagree though.
"Far far too soon, totally for political reasons, there is NO medical evidence to suggest opening up now is a good idea - I'll guarantee the infection rate will soar in the next month or so."
No medical evidence? Your nuts. Its endemic instead of pandemic, the UK immunity is high enough that infection != hospitalisation nor death so economically there is every reason to open up and medically no reason not to.
"But this has little to do with Brexit more the staggering incompetence of the current Tory party "leadership", the same "leadership" that gave us Brexit just to placate a few back benchers."
I agree it has little to do with brexit nor the EU as each country makes their own choices. As I point out above removing your argument against the advantage.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Ah there you are again with the false assertion that the vaccine rollout had anything to do with Brexit.
Reminder: it happened while we were still in the EU . The Uk used its right to do its own thing as allowed under the EU regs .
Nothing to do with Brexit, however much you wish to claim it did.
So we can derive from your need to use this false assertion that you're still unable to name a single benefit then.
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
@batfink
"Ah there you are again with the false assertion that the vaccine rollout had anything to do with Brexit."
Erm... you think thats a false assertion? your really gonna have to explain that one.
"Reminder: it happened while we were still in the EU. The Uk used its right to do its own thing as allowed under the EU regs."
Ahh the UK supremacist view. Read- https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/01/28/horizons_response/#c_4404939
Your either lying, severely misinformed or delusional. That you think thats a deficit on my part isnt my problem
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Peace in Europe for the longest period of time in over 1000 years, But hey...
Re: .....but in the "sunny uplands" this sort of c**k up never happens, does it?
Wow.
The inevitable people with the inevitable comments that will get posted eleventy times, identically to the last article about the subject: do you not bore yourselves?