Db2, where are you? Big Blue is oddly reticent to discuss recent enhancements to its flagship database
- Reference: 1640260927
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/12/23/db2_where_are_you/
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Big Blue's system of choice for its mainframes and big Unix/Linux boxes is still very much alive and kicking and has even delivered a smattering of news in recent weeks, with a high profile attendee at the early December [1]International Db2 Users Group European Conference telling us that select users were told of the new "Db2u", a set of containers for Db2 aimed at users exploring or working with the database in the cloud.
Conference speaker, Db2 DBA, and commentator Ember Crooks had [2]posted earlier this year that "db2u sounds amazing to me" and that "db2u, conceptually, is a nearly cloud-native way of doing a relational database management system." But she also pointed out that "the problem I run into is that db2u is only available on RedHat OpenShift."
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Now, according to Crooks, IBM seems to be porting Db2u to container services Amazon EKS and Azure AKS.
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Enthusing about the apparent move last week, [6]Crooks wrote : "There is no printed statement yet that I can refer to, nor is there a more solid date … but when I talked to the platform team at work, we're looking for workloads to try on Amazon EKS, so the moment it becomes available, I'm ready to do a POC on it and hope that in 2022, I can get my production databases running on it!"
The Register has asked IBM for confirmation of these plans.
[7]
Db2 was modelled on the ideas of IBM researcher Edgar Frank "Ted" [8]Codd , who first described the theory of relational databases in 1970. The first products became available on IBM mainframes in 1983 and on later on Unix, Linux, and Windows. The product has been styled as "DB/2", then "DB2" before settling on the current "Db2" in 2017.
While there has been a flurry of innovation and startups in the database market in recent years, Db2 remains ranked the seventh-most-popular database by [9]DB-Engines , which uses a combination of downloads, sales, and citations to rank databases.
It is well behind leader Oracle in its score, but well above, say, Snowflake, which, despite being 17th, has seen an investment frenzy that at [10]once valued the company at $120bn , [11]more than the whole of IBM which includes hardware, mainframes, cloud, and a substantial services operation.
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It is frustrating to users, then, that in an era with a seemingly insatiable interest in databases and related data engineering products – Databricks' [13]nominal value of $28bn is just one more example – IBM seems to lack the appetite to promote its own flagship product.
Sebastian Zok, Db2 user and IDUG EMEA conference chair, welcomed the idea of IBM supporting alternative container platforms. "It's a good thing because any restriction you have on a system lowers the number of people who want to use it. Now with the possibility of using two containers within native Kubernetes without OpenShift ... you open the field for a lot of companies that just thought 'well yeah, we're using containers, but we're not using OpenShift.' I think they'll do great with that because they're expanding their possible customers."
But Zok said the user community was concerned over the lack of attention IBM is paying Db2 in public.
"IBM isn't doing the best job of marketing Db2, in general, both on Linux-Unix-Windows and System Z. If you're asking some tech people that are not so deeply into databases, which databases they know the first thing they say is Oracle, Microsoft SQL Server as well. But people only know Db2 if they have it in their shop already, or if they’re involved in the mainframe. It's a concern. IBM do better marketing with Db2, just to show the world its capabilities. It's no worse than Oracle or MS SQL Server. I wouldn't say it's way better but it's a competitor and a really good one."
Given the status of some Db2 users, it seems a surprising approach from IBM. The technology is relied on by a string of the world's largest banks and retailers including JP Morgan Chase, HSBC, Bank of America, and Tesco.
However, the community was still encouraged by the technical investments IBM is making in its core database, and requests for technical upgrades were well attended by IBM engineers.
"I don't think IBM wants to let Db2 die. It's not like Cobol or anything like that. IBM is near to its customers but only those that have already invested in Db2. We would like to see them try to do a better job [outside that group]," Zok said.
[14]Cerner, a company that scooped more than £100m in NHS deals in a year, is in Oracle's crosshairs
[15]Database company Cockroach Labs more than doubles in value to $5bn
[16]Trouble getting REST APIs into GraphQL? Try our low-code approach, says Hasura
[17]Oracle finance application customers more likely to leave for another vendor than SAP's – analyst
Zok added that the Community License for Db2 on Linux-Unix-Windows, which offered a full-featured database albeit with limited resources, appears promising. It could be an alternative to PostgreSQL, the open-source relational database, for small, start-up projects, he said. "Postgres is good because the community is very responsive. But on the other hand, having a company like IBM behind the product, you know there are the people that develop that stuff and could find problems if you have any."
IBM is not the only vendor with an interest in Db2 - third parties such as BMC aim to help Db2 users manage, optimise, and safeguard the platform on the mainframe.
April Hickel, VP of Intelligent Z optimization and transformation at BMC, said: "BMC sees continued growth and use of Db2 in customers in line with the positive growth trend of the mainframe."
In BMC's latest mainframe survey, 68 per cent of respondents expect MIPS to grow – the highest outlook in the 15-year history of our annual report. "BMC continues to invest in Db2 with quarterly releases of our Db2 solutions with a focus on delivering automation with CI/CD pipeline integrations, using AI/ML to proactively detect issues, automate root cause isolation, and optimise database performance," Hickel said.
The Register has been encouraging IBM to talk to us about its plans for Db2 for more than a year now with little success.
Noel Yuhanna, Forrester veep and principal analyst, said interest in Db2 from the wider tech community is also dropping off. "We don't get as many inquiries on Db2 these days compared to five or seven years ago. However, we find many loyal IBM customers like Db2's scale, reliability, security, performance, and tools to support various workloads."
IBM seems to have suffered in shifting Db2 to the cloud, he said. But Big Blue has innovated with in-database machine learning, supporting distributed queries through data virtualization, and support for hybrid-cloud environments. "The future of DB2 will depend on whether IBM can attract non-IBM customers, continue to deliver advanced automation and intelligence, and expand on more modern use cases," Yuhanna said.
While IBM is investing in the platform, its track record in promoting its flagship database outside the core customer base continues to worry users.
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[1] https://www.idug.org/events/calendar/2021-emea-conference/emea-keyn509561520
[2] https://datageek.blog/en/2021/05/13/the-big-mistake-ibm-is-making-with-db2-in-containers/
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/databases&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YcSrRtVN7dYGvGgJmncv8wAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/databases&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YcSrRtVN7dYGvGgJmncv8wAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/databases&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YcSrRtVN7dYGvGgJmncv8wAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://datageek.blog/en/2021/12/17/db2u-without-redhat-openshift-a-container-native-database/
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/databases&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YcSrRtVN7dYGvGgJmncv8wAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2013/11/20/ibm_system_r_making_relational_really_real/
[9] https://db-engines.com/en/ranking
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/15/a_flurry_of_data_warehouse/
[11] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-08/snowflake-surges-past-ibm-with-market-value-at-120-billion
[12] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/databases&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YcSrRtVN7dYGvGgJmncv8wAAAFY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/01/databricks_new_class_workloads/
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/17/oracle_cerner/
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/16/funding_db_cockraoch/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/15/hasura_low_code_graphql/
[17] https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/14/oracle_sap_forrester/
[18] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
And you've knocked the nail on the head there. I'm in the same position. My background is heavily MSSQL.
I've also reached the point of knowing enough to get the job done in other stuff, and it infuriates me when people take the attitude of 'it's running slow, lets ramp up the VM to the next level up' rather than optimising what we have.
Then again why should I care, the bill isn't out of my salary. So I advise, whereupon it's ignored because they don't want to spend the time. No amount of capacity planning will fix that mindset
Re: Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
Relational data stores, compute infrastructure, servers - these are things that are provisioned and priced like utilities now.
Whereas before you needed a full-time DBA just to set things up and keep the lights on, now you can pay a monthly fee to have that provided with relatively well understood SLA's.
There's still a need for skilled workers - but they need to be able to join three or four utility systems together into one product. That's not a jack of all trades, its just a different specialization.
Re: Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
> these are things that are provisioned and priced like utilities now.
Ironically, IBM recognised very early on this was where the internet would be heading (with a bit of pushing from IBM of course); it was Gerstner's pet project (at a time when Microsoft was still trying to work out if this world wide web thing would be important or not).
But, as per usual, IBM cannot do joined up thinking
Re: Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
"Badly written SQL? Why bother tuning it, just crank up the number of CPUs on the config page for the instance"
If you say a statement like that it makes me confident you were never a DBA, yet alone an ORACLE DBA for any period of time.
Ever heard of latch contention? Shit I remember dealing with that back in 2004, and again at another company in 2007ish. I remember one conference call in particular during an outage with latch contention. Our VP of engineering asked us, and I'll never forget because it was just such a strange request. He said
"Guys, is there anything I can buy that would make this problem go away?"
I wasn't the DBA (I have never been a DBA though I have managed database servers) or even responsible for back end systems(storage etc), I managed the app layers. The answer was a resounding no. You could buy the fastest computer in the world and it wouldn't solve this issue. You have to fix the app. We had the largest single OLTP database in the world at that company at over 50TB in size(by 2006), Oracle said the next largest was Amazon at ~8TB. The 50TB size was due to poor app design(storing raw XML in the database). Probably one of the only companies in the world when they deployed data warehousing the data warehouse was a fraction of the size of OLTP.
I had an argument with my manager at the 2nd company where we had latch contention. I knew the problem from past experience. I didn't know the CAUSE. Everyone blamed Oracle(except me and the outsourced DBAs). The problem was most quickly "fixed" by doing an Oracle restart. But then within a week it would come back. CPU would go to 100%, query rate would fall to the floor. Oracle Enterprise manager clearly showed latch contention happening.
After about 6 weeks of this the devs finally figured out the cause - a problem in the app. Which they fixed and the latch contention stopped.
I haven't used Oracle DB seriously since 2008, I don't include running vCenter DB on Oracle(it was either that or MSSQL and I wanted a DB running on Linux) for several years as that was a tiny DB with a very low workload. Given the low workload and user count it was super cheap per user licensing for Oracle SE subscription.
I know all of that and I'll never admit to being a DBA. I can generally manage Oracle and MySQL services/backups etc, but getting into the guts of tuning and queries etc is not me.
Re: Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
another common saying among DBAs I have worked with goes along the lines of - you can double your performance by doubling your CPU speed(emphasis on speed not number of cores)/memory, but you can increase performance by 10X+ by fixing your query(ies).
I believe Oracle EE with an addon does provide parallel execution(for a single query), most other DBs do not. Otherwise of course a single query is limited to a single CPU core, and CPU core performance doesn't increase very quickly. You can add more cores but that won't help individual queries just the ability in some cases to run more queries. Our big Oracle servers back in 2004-2005ish literally spent more than 60% of their time waiting on I/O on average. CPU user time was quite small. We literally had vendors like Hitachi come in and tell us nobody else in the world is doing what we were doing with our DBs. They would spec out hardware and said in theory it should be fine but we haven't tested things in this way (in the end it was fine as in didn't break at least until they tried NFS on NetApp and the NetApps shit themselves immediately until they changed to fibrechannel). I wasn't responsible for back end storage or Oracle systems though I did write a ton of stuff to monitor them which everyone relied on even years after I left..
I remember MySQL query cache contention being an issue too. One of our DBAs at my current company almost got fired when we moved out of cloud into our data center and he was adamant he didn't want MySQL query cache on(most MySQL folks hate it for good reason I suppose). The app required it(again, bad app). Performance was in the shitter for hours. He said no. Everyone else said yes. He relented and turned it on app performance skyrocketed and things were ok again. We did have query cache contention at times but it was super rare for it to be a critical issue. Then they built a new app stack that didn't rely on query cache as a performance boost and we have had query cache disabled for many years now.
It's still a thing?
Honestly, I had no idea it was still alive......
A bit like Informix, it' still alive, but surely on life support by now.
My previous emp is still running Informix on Solaris, but movement to cloud is unlikely.
Re: It's still a thing?
It used to be that products went to CA to be treated like that. Now it's IBM.
Who in their right minds would invest in new Db2's?
If you're starting a new project, I can see no world in which I would choose DB2, Oracle, MSSQL over PostgreSQL. If it wasn't for PostgreSQL, then there's no way you'd choose DB2, Oracle or MSSQL over MySQL.
PostgreSQL and MySQL are open source and have enterprise grade 24/7 support available from multiple vendors. Who would voluntarily shackle themselves to a single, closed source platform for the foundational component of the stack which may be the most difficult to migrate to an alternative?
Moving Db2 to the cloud will protect it and give customers one less reason to migrate off of it, so that's a smart move. If IBM wanted Db2 to compete for new business, they'd have to open source it. Otherwise no one in their right mind would consider it for new development.
I think Maersk Line is using DB2 as well
At least it used to be very much an IBM shop
Throwaway society mentality comes to IT
The world is changing. I was an Oracle DBA for almost 20 years but then I moved sideways to other areas as I knew that wouldn't keep my career going for another 25 years. I used my coding skills and generic understanding of admin and DB skills to learn more products across so many disperate services these days. I no longer learn anything to any great depth, sad but true, now I learn enough to support a project, set it up, document and move on.
The days of the specific skilled worker are drawing to a close, only the Jack-of-all-trades will survive now. With this change to more "low depth", generic IT skills and workers comes the need to keep changing products every few years as old legacy tech is mothballed or put out to pasture.
DB2, like SQL Server, Oracle and their ilk are being replaced or at the very least simply locked in legacy silos to die a slow death. Why pay all that money for the software and skilling up your staff when they will walk out or the product will be used to bare minimum over the 4-5 years of it's lifetime? Learn enough about MySQL/PostgreSQL cloud offerings to store data. Badly written SQL? Why bother tuning it, just crank up the number of CPUs on the config page for the instance, why bother tuning anything, it'll only be around for 4-5 years max then it'll be replaced by the next project. Just keep paying the cloud providers for more horsepower, more tech, more space.