Another Debian dust-up with Firefox dependencies – but there is an annoying and awkward workaround
- Reference: 1639155728
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/12/10/debian_firefox_issues/
- Source link:
One of the grey-bearded elders of the Linux distro world, Debian has had issues with Mozilla before. For years, it built its own forks of the Mozilla apps – Iceweasel, Icedove, Iceape, and Iceowl – because of a [1]disagreement over trademark use . But this time the [2]issues are technical rather than legal.
As a conservative, stable distro, Debian [3]includes the Extended Support Release (ESR) [4]version of Firefox – ideal for those who find Mozilla's [5]four-weekly release cycle a bit too rapid.
[6]
The problem is that Firefox [7]91 , the current ESR version, includes several dependencies that the current stable version of Debian – 11.1 " [8]Bullseye " – can't fulfil, which poses the maintainers a problem: either update some components of the graphics stack, just for Firefox, or force the Debian version of Firefox to use older dependencies, which is doable but doesn't fix the problem, so it will happen again when the next ESR appears.
[9]
[10]
Debian releases get updates for five years, but Mozilla puts out a new Firefox ESR annually, so this will be a nuisance for years to come.
For users, there are several potential solutions. You can install either Flatpak or Snap support, and then install the current ESR (or the latest version, if you prefer) of Firefox. The snag is that by default, Debian doesn't come with either system installed, and [11]both have significant drawbacks .
[12]
One of these, as the latest release of Ubuntu found out the hard way, is a serious problem if you use the GNOME desktop – which is the default in both distros. You can't install or manage GNOME extensions using either a [13]Snap or [14]Flatpak packaged version of Firefox.
[15]NixOS and the changing face of Linux operating systems
[16]The rocky road to better Linux software installation: Containers, containers, containers
[17]Ubuntu desktop team teases 'proof of concept' systemd on Windows Subsystem for Linux
[18]Bullseye! Debian-based Raspberry Pi OS scores an update with 'less closed-source proprietary code'
One way round this that works on both Debian and Ubuntu is to use [19]UbuntuZilla . This long-running third-party project packages the latest Mozilla builds of Firefox, Firefox-ESR, Thunderbird, and Seamonkey for Debian-derived distros.
Installing Firefox-ESR threw up a different Debian [20]glitch , though: you can't install UbuntuZilla's Firefox-ESR until you remove Debian's version – and if you try to do that, it will automatically try to install the GNOME Epiphany browser. This is because other pre-installed programs require a browser to be present. You can either let it install Epiphany, then install UbuntuZilla Firefox, then remove Epiphany again, or you can install the chromium package for the FOSS version of Google's browser first. Note, though, that installing actual Google Chrome won't satisfy the requirement.
We can report that installing Chromium, then removing the built-in Firefox, installing Firefox-ESR from UbuntuZilla, and then removing Chromium left us with a fully working Firefox 91 with no apparent ill effects. We also tried Google Chrome, and that worked fine, too. ®
Get our [21]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2017/06/18/debian_9_stretch_debuts/
[2] http://techrights.org/2021/11/10/firefox-esr-91-issues/
[3] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr
[4] https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/enterprise/
[5] https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/09/moving-firefox-to-a-faster-4-week-release-cycle/
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YbPcJ9UpSizgHJYghJtEUAAAAII&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[7] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/91.4.0/releasenotes/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/08/raspberry_pi_os_bullseye/
[9] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YbPcJ9UpSizgHJYghJtEUAAAAII&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[10] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YbPcJ9UpSizgHJYghJtEUAAAAII&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/26/linux_software_installation/
[12] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YbPcJ9UpSizgHJYghJtEUAAAAII&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[13] https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/firefox-snap-lacks-gnome-extension-integration/26792
[14] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/issues/2689
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/03/nixos_linux_os_design/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/26/linux_software_installation/
[17] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/17/ubuntu_team_systemd_windows_wsl2/
[18] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/08/raspberry_pi_os_bullseye/
[19] https://sourceforge.net/p/ubuntuzilla/wiki/Main_Page/
[20] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=142699
[21] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Once again ...
As far as I know apt is a command line tool - so I have no clue what you are referring to.
The problem I have with slackware is that installing/updating software can take a long time on slow machines, and that you always have the latest and greatest software - bugs and all. Debian "stable" is really stable and boring. I like it that way. Also apt is very reliable, the chances of leaving installed packages in an ill defined state are slim. It's a robust system,which I value.
Great that we have the freedom to choose and prioritise certain aspects!
Re: Once again ...
Are you confusing slackware with arch?
Slackware doesn't have the latest and greatest versions - it has a glacial progression that prioritises stability.
Install Firefox directly from mozilla.org
Why doesn't this article mention installing Firefox by downloading it from mozilla.org, which is actually the best way to install it IMHO. For many desktop applications which get updated frequently the preferred way of installing them is directly from the vendor unless there's some overriding or exceptional need to do otherwise.
Also, the article mentions nothing about the non-free Debian repository, which a desktop user is almost certainly going to want to enable, unless again there's some overriding or exceptional situation.
Re: Install Firefox directly from mozilla.org
Generally, I prefer to rely on a distribution's own updates rather than a direct download & install from its own site; just because it saves me that extra step, and the packaging is done right.
However, the direct download option is certainly useful. I have a slackware 14.2 install which hasn't had its own firefox package updated for some considerable time (14.2 is not so new any more, and there are apparently some incompatibilities that firefox insists on :-).
However, I can unpack a direct download of even the latest firefox into it's own directory and run it from there with no problems.
"dangerously outdated browser"
Eh, I still run FF v43 as that's the last one with cookie control.
Re: "dangerously outdated browser"
I run the latest FF and it has cookie controls. I have it set to strict =
Stronger protection, but may cause some sites or content to break.
Firefox blocks the following:
- Social media trackers
- Cross-site cookies in all windows (includes tracking cookies)
- Tracking content in all windows
- Cryptominers
- Fingerprinters
There is also a separate option
- Delete cookies and site data when Firefox is closed
which I also have set. Looking more closely now I see that under the "custom" setting (an alternative to "strict") the are 4 options for cookie control =
- Cross-site cookies - includes social media cookies
- Cookies from unvisited websites
- All third party cookies - may cause websites to break
- All cookies - will cause websites to break
May I ask you what settings there used to be that are not offered now? Thank you.
Re: "dangerously outdated browser"
Current FireFox is so dangerously out of date that it no longer opens iLO2 webpages, making it a clear and present danger to my environment.
I have to fall back to nice and reliable Internet Explorer.
A so called "modern browser" needs to accomodate the end user, and not some design dogma.
Sure, let there be a "Children's Setting" for default installs, but let people opt out of all of those...
Re: "dangerously outdated browser"
Isn't running an outdated browser just begging for an exploit?
How does Linuxmint handle the Firefox dependencies since its built off Ubuntu? As my Linuxmint install got updated to Firefox 95.0 earlier today which AFAIK is the latest release and it appears they are building their own version as the about Firefox dialog says "Mozilla Firefox for Linux Mint mint 1.0".
I'll take my chances. Running an ancient Firefox in a Jail / Container is still vastly safer than running the very latest browser from upstream raw and unprotected.
You do all run your web browsers in Jails or VMs right?
Plus, if you truly go through the "updates" from browser manufacturers, they are pretty much bogus, fixing things like payment, location or analytics APIs which should always be turned off anyway. Much of it is fearmongering to get people onto the latest privacy destroying gimmick as soon as possible.
For a while I ran FF on a container running openbox window manager and Xephyr, so the main cut buffer and the main X buffer would be isolated. When needing to send a password to the browser it would be sent in an explicit channel (implemented with an ssh tunnel because it was easy) - the main cut buffer was never exposed directly to the container.
Another problem was, keep the container around, which I feel is less secure, or start up a new container each time. But a new container needs to be initialized, and setttings set. Time consuming.
Unfortunately it was all ugly and slow - I got bored and gave up. It's much easier if the X buffer and cut buffer are shared directly - but then I am not sure there is a security advantage.
What do you think? How do you do it?
Using Mozilla's own build works for us
We're running latest Firefox ESR with vanilla Debian 11 + LXDE, it works fine, no dependency issues. Also worked at Debian 10.
Since 91.0 ESR, and currently with 91.4.0 ESR, just
1. Visit https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/#product-desktop-esr, select Firefox Extended Support Release, Linux 64-bit, English (British) and download tar.bz2 archive,
2. Extract to somewhere, I use /opt/mozilla/firefox,
3. Run /opt/mozilla/firefox/firefox or wherever.
You can also make this the default installation, without removing the Debian default package e.g.
# update-alternatives --force --install /usr/bin/firefox firefox /usr/bin/firefox-esr 200
# update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/firefox firefox /opt/mozilla/firefox/firefox 100
# update-alternatives --config firefox (select /opt/mozilla/firefox/firefox)
but if you do this you may then want to hold the default package to prevent updates overwriting the /usr/bin/firefox, symbolic link, e.g.
# apt-mark hold firefox-esr firefox-esr-l10n-en-gb
Conservative?
As a conservative, stable distro, Debian ...
... includes systemd.
And a few other of Poettering's toys.
If you want a conservative, stable distro you have Devuan.
O.
Linus sums up Debian
[1]https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/540
[1] https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/540
And that is why…
I’d would never use Debian in the desktop (GUI), server yes.. desktop no. There Ubuntu would be a better choice.
$ sudo apt-get remove
"This is because other pre-installed programs require a browser to be present."
Hmm, is there a list of these to-be-avoided programs somewhere?
Once again ...
... I'm ever so happy that Slackware exists. Just as up to date as the rest, but so, so much easier to keep that way.
Seriously ... needs a GUI and a browser to update the OS? WTF‽‽‽