Felt Qt (might delete later)*: Two non-Gtk Linux desktops have put out new versions
- Reference: 1636483511
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/11/09/new_qt_linux_desktops/
- Source link:
Release 14.0.11 of the [1]Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE) just appeared. TDE was [2]forked from KDE 3 by a team who didn't care for KDE 4's focus on widgets.
They may have had a point; Linux supremo Linus Torvalds was [3]sceptical about them as well .
[4]
KDE adopted widgets when they were trendy, soon after Windows Vista, but Microsoft [5]dumped them again after Windows 7 . TDE is admittedly one of the more niche options, but it's good to see signs of [6]life .
[7]
[8]
More mainstream is the lightweight [9]LXQt – which just hit [10]version 1.0 on Friday.
LXQt is the mainline descendant of the [11]LXDE desktop, a Gtk2-based Windows 95-like environment. In [12]our testing back in 2013 , LXDE was by quite some margin the lightest-weight desktop for Ubuntu, taking about half the memory of GNOME.
[13]
In the same year, with Gtk2 at end of life, LXDE's lead developer, Dr Jen Yee Hong (or "PCMan" as he's known in FOSS circles), moved on to a next-generation project. Rather than port LXDE to Gtk3, he moved it to Qt instead, and merged it with another lightweight Qt desktop project, Razor-Qt. Ubuntu's [14]Lubuntu remix comes with LXQt , so we can expect to see LXQt 1 in Lubuntu 22.04 next year.
Its progenitor isn't dead, though. Just [15]yesterday there was a new version of the [16]Distro Formerly Known As Raspbian . It originally came with LXDE, which the Raspberry Pi Foundation forked and now calls [17]PIXEL . It uses Gtk3 and the GNOME window manager Mutter.
The foundation [18]also offers a PC version of its OS , which your correspondent runs on an [19]old sub-netbook . It's among the few surviving distros for 32-bit x86 kit. We hope to see it get a corresponding update.
[20]Going Ubuntu on an M1 Mac with Multipass: Thanks VM, it's Linux on the desktop
[21]Linux 5.16 to bring mainline support to Raspberry Pi 4 Compute Module – and the nifty devices built around it
[22]Bullseye! Debian-based Raspberry Pi OS scores an update with 'less closed-source proprietary code'
[23]Linux PC shop System76 is building a new desktop environment in Rust
The problem with Gtk is that it's a moving target. The GNOME Foundation develops Gtk in parallel with and for its own desktop. GNOME 40 was [24]originally going to be called GNOME 4 and its [25]corresponding version of Gtk still is .
It remains [26]a controversial project – Linus too [27]wasn't fond of the new look . Torvalds' other project is a dive-planning app called [28]Subsurface ; his co-developer Dirk Hohndel has [29]talked about the [30]difficulties of using Gtk and why they moved to Qt.
[31]
The [32]Xfce desktop moved to Gtk3 quite a while before PIXEL, but not without [33]difficulties . So did MATE, while facing accusations that the new version needed [34]more memory . Now, they – and PIXEL – once again lag behind the current Gtk.
There's a small chance that in the longer term this could pan out to the advantage of the Qt desktops. There's at least [35]one we'd love to see come back from the dead. ®
* With apologies to the maker of the [36]"Felt Cute, Might Delete Later" (Squidward) meme, people on social media who are trying to seem humble, and all the people who make fun of them...
Get our [37]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2017/10/30/q4os_distro_review/
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2012/11/05/linus_torvalds_reviews_kde/
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YYr9nNzLv62WyhNRjUqEXQAAAIY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2013/03/08/modernmix_saves_windows8/
[6] https://earthweb.com/trinity-kde-kde-3-zombified-or-resurrected/
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YYr9nNzLv62WyhNRjUqEXQAAAIY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YYr9nNzLv62WyhNRjUqEXQAAAIY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[9] https://lxqt-project.org/
[10] https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/releases/tag/1.0.0
[11] https://wiki.lxde.org/en/Main_Page
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2013/04/26/xbuntu_round_up/
[13] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YYr9nNzLv62WyhNRjUqEXQAAAIY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[14] https://www.theregister.com/2015/07/09/lightweight_linuxes/?page=3
[15] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/08/raspberry_pi_os_bullseye/
[16] https://www.theregister.com/2012/07/18/raspberry_pi_releasese_raspbian/
[17] https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-pixel/
[18] https://www.theregister.com/2016/12/22/raspberry_pi_foundation_releases_operating_system_for_pcs_macs/
[19] https://www.theregister.com/2010/06/15/review_netbook_sony_vaio_p/
[20] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/09/multipass_m1/
[21] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/09/linux_pi_compute/
[22] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/08/raspberry_pi_os_bullseye/
[23] https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/08/system76_developing_new_linux_desktop/
[24] https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/23/this_was_bigger_then_gnome/
[25] https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/25/gnome_40
[26] https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/09/gnome_human_interface_guidelines/
[27] https://www.theregister.com/2011/08/05/linus_slams_gnome_three/
[28] https://subsurface-divelog.org/
[29] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU2ODM
[30] https://archive.fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/desktops_from_gtk_to_qt_subsurface_mobile/
[31] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/oses&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YYr9nNzLv62WyhNRjUqEXQAAAIY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[32] https://www.theregister.com/2015/04/03/xfce_4_12_review_linus_torvald_ubuntu/
[33] https://blog.desdelinux.net/en/continua-el-debate-sobre-gtk3-en-xfce-4-12/
[34] https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/mate-desktop-gtk2-vs-gtk3-memory-consumption/
[35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
[36] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/feeling-cute-might-delete-later
[37] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Variety is the Spice of Life...
...But it's a bugger to contend with when you're just trying to get an app developed and shipped.
I hadn't realised that GTK was evolved in step with each new version of Gnome. Are they mad? Do they want 3rd party software to be written?
Basically, it looks like it's not just Windows that is riven with fear, uncertainty and doubt about "How GUI Applications Should Be Developed". I'm just waiting for someone to decide it's a good idea to do a Linux desktop in Electron (braces for a barrage of links to that very thing that I'm too horrified to even begin to type a search for into a search engine).
How It Should Be Done
Just my 2p's worth.
Having a graphical app layout tool is sensible. Mechanical engineers don't create objects by hand-crafting CNC code, no. They use a CAD package to be more productive. So it stands to reason that a graphical app layout tool should make programmers more productive.
However, I really don't like the idea of that producing a pile of XML (or equivalent) that is consumed at run-time by a bunch of libraries. That invites bloat; a linker can't tell what it's got to link in, and so you end up distributing the entire toolkit's libraries regardless of how much is going to be used.
Having a graphical app layout tool emit source code (C, C++, Java, C#, whatever) is sensible because i) programmers then stand a chance of understanding how the hell things are supposed to work, and ii) it makes for an efficient, smaller sized binary.
And, finally, there's things like SL-GMS (https://slgms.com/). For those that don't know what this is, it's the kind of thing you wish you had when you realise that your GUI toolkit library hasn't got the thing you need, and you realise you've got to code up your own. SL-GMS (at least when I first saw it a long time ago) made it very easy to draw a custom widget and ascribe properties to it, and then have that emit C, C++ (ad now Java, C# and Web) source code that implements that widget against a graphics primitives library of your choice. AFAIK there's nothing like it available as open source, and few seem to even perceive the benefits from having such a thing.
For example, say you need a compass rose widget. GTK and Qt don't have one, and you can't find a third party library that does one you like. With SL-GMS you simply draw your compass rose using the design tools, and then give it a property (i.e. this thing rotates abouts it's centre, 1 whole turn). Then you press a button et voila, source code in a language of your choice for a graphics primitives library of your choice (within limits) that has a compass rose class with a "bearing" property. Instantiate one of those classes, set the "bearing" property of the object, and you've got a compass rose on the screen spinning away. It takes literally 2 minutes from beginning to end.
The demo I saw of this back in the 1990s involved developing a whole moving map + live data feed for bus locations, from scratch, in 30 minutes, with a minimum of hand written code, in C++. It was very impressive. I'm not a customer of (I do embedded stuff) or connected to the SL-GMS company in anyway.
Really there should be no reason for developers to have to write any code to implement the "graphical" bit of graphical applications these days. Software development seems to be the last industry that has steadfastly failed to embrace tools to make GUI software development significantly easier. Some (like Gnome perhaps?) seem to be actively engaged in making it even harder than it already is. All other engineering disciplines are using software tools to make their lives dramatically easier, whilst the software industry keeps messing it up. Why?
Been using LXQt since version 1.2 & love it. Makes for a simple elegant aesthetically pleasing desktop compatible with much of the KDE desktop.
Was using Openbox but because of compositing issues have gone back to XFWM4, which is the default in Debian. Will stick with that as long as
XFWM4 stays compatible with the old GTK2 xfwm4-themes package & the lxqt-xfwm4-package cribbed from Siduction. I also use the Moka icon
theme, finding the default Papirus icon theme, well flat & ugly. I also use the Plank simple dock app to organize my desktop shortcuts. Way more
fun to tinker with & less hassle than Windows.