Magna Carta mayhem: Protesters lay siege to Edinburgh Castle, citing obscure Latin text that has never applied in Scotland
- Reference: 1629282724
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/08/18/magna_carta_edinburgh_castle/
- Source link:
Livestreaming the siege against one of the oldest fortresses in Scotland (and Europe) [1]via Facebook , protesters appeared to be objecting to COVID-19 lockdown.
However, Scotland has followed England for the time being in [2]removing legally enforceable restrictions , so exactly what the problem was remains unclear.
[3]
Wheezing as though too many deep-fried Mars bars had been consumed before the band of 20-odd dissidents climbed Castle Rock*, the leader filming the altercation with staff repeatedly spouted phrases like "we the people" and "sovereign" as though she didn't really know what any of it meant.
[4]
[5]
"Hi!" she yelled as police inevitably turned up. "We are free, we are sovereign, this building belongs to the people of the land!"
"Aye, OK," a rather more composed officer responded.
[6]
"Today history is gonna be made!" she continued. "We are restoring the rule of law! It's gonna happen today in Scotland!"
She rambled on that "every police station" in Scotland had been put "on notice" that this was going to happen, and that "Edinburgh Castle now belongs to we the people."
"We've had enough of these fake acts of statures [sic], which are made up by a fake corruption who are paedophiles, who are run by paedophiles, who have been cheating the people of the UK... Genocide has been committed, high treason has been committed, we have the proof, we have the evidence, and today we are gonna be restoring the rule of law."
[7]
The unperturbed officer responded: "Aye, OK. No worries at all," before trying to figure out what the group expected to achieve.
She tells the cop: "We're gonna be using Article 61 of Magna Carta, which is actually the only law in effect," as the basis for their authority to seize Edinburgh Castle.
Though the screed is obviously riddled with the same sorts of assumptions and factual errors more commonly seen among conspiracy theorists over the pond, the biggest mistake is that the protesters had no authority whatsoever to claim the stronghold.
"Article 61" of Magna Carta has been invoked by Covidiots across the UK multiple times already as enabling "lawful dissent and rebellion" if people feel they are being governed unjustly, [8]according to Full Fact .
As the fact-checking org puts it: "The original version of Magna Carta granted powers to 'assail' the monarch and 'seek redress' to 25 barons in order to keep the provisions of the Magna Carta, but these powers were not granted to the population at large. Within a year of being written, this clause was removed from subsequent versions of Magna Carta. It was never incorporated into English statutory law."
Clause 61 [9]specifically says :
The barons shall elect twenty-five of their number to keep, and cause to be observed with all their might, the peace and liberties granted and confirmed to them by this charter.
If we, our chief justice, our officials, or any of our servants offend in any respect against any man, or transgress any of the articles of the peace or of this security, and the offence is made known to four of the said twenty-five barons, they shall come to us – or in our absence from the kingdom to the chief justice – to declare it and claim immediate redress. If we, or in our absence abroad the chief justice, make no redress within forty days, reckoning from the day on which the offence was declared to us or to him, the four barons shall refer the matter to the rest of the twenty-five barons, who may distrain upon and assail us in every way possible, with the support of the whole community of the land, by seizing our castles, lands, possessions, or anything else saving only our own person and those of the queen and our children, until they have secured such redress as they have determined upon. Having secured the redress, they may then resume their normal obedience to us.
Any man who so desires may take an oath to obey the commands of the twenty-five barons for the achievement of these ends, and to join with them in assailing us to the utmost of his power.
[10]Woman sues McDonald's for $14 after cheeseburger ad did exactly what it's designed to
[11]File this next to Mars bars under 'things that should not be deep-fried': Marks & Spencer's Colin the Caterpillar
[12]God bless this mess: Study says UK's Christian beliefs had 'important' role in Brexit
[13]Glastonbury hippy shop Hemp in Avalon rapped for spouting 'plandemic' pseudoscience
The clause applies only to these 25 barons, then, who, we assume, are no longer around. But that's far from the only problem.
Magna Carta, Latin for "Great Charter", never once applied to Scottish law. It is an English document first written up in 1215 – almost 500 years out from the Act of Union in 1707.
Then there's the fact that the clause was removed from Magna Carter in 1216, so it's been null and void for, oh, 805 years.
Even the Pope refused to recognise the clause because it interfered with the King's authority, which [14]led to civil war in England . Despite numerous subsequent revisions of the document and its addition to the statute book in 1297, most of it has been repealed.
The tl;dr goes to medieval history buff Lord Sumption [15]who told fellow celeb historian Dan Snow : "It's an obscure Latin text which modified English law to deal with a number of highly specific grievances against King John which had no abiding historical relevance. It didn't create Parliament, it didn't create rule of law, which existed both before and after. It was essentially a self-interested document produced by a bunch of baronial millionaires in their own interest."
Saner Scots made hay on Twitter.
I’m gonnae use the Magna Carta tae get oot o work the morn — Peckin Awa 🌱💚 (@NeRegretteRien) [16]August 17, 2021
Daughter's just cited the Magna Carta to get Coco Pops for breakfast — Allan Smith (@AllanSmith80) [17]August 18, 2021
🏴I AM DEMANDING FREE HAGGIS-BASED MEALS EVERY DAY FOR ALL CITIZENS, IN PERPETUITY, UNDER ARTICLE 61 OF THE MAGNA CARTA WHICH IS TOTALLY A REAL THING THAT GENUINELY APPLIES HERE🏴 — Alan Maxwell (@anthemsprinter) [18]August 17, 2021
The magna carta says it's my turn on the PlayStation — Matt Ratt 🛰️ (@MisterRatt) [19]August 17, 2021
Superintendent Gerry Corrigan of Police Scotland said in a statement: "Officers attended at Edinburgh Castle following reports that a group of protesters had gathered within the Castle grounds at around 5.05pm on Tuesday, 17 August, 2021.
"The group later dispersed. One man was arrested for disorder-related offences and a police officer sustained minor injuries during this arrest.
"A full report will be submitted to the Procurator Fiscal."
The moral of the story? Just because something's old doesn't make it mean jackshit. Also, stay in school, kids. ®
Bootnote
*As a Scot, the author sees it as his right to make fun of Scots. No genuine offence is intended, he knows how sensitive you can be.
Get our [20]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.facebook.com/janie.walsh/videos/570377894133898
[2] https://www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/
[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/bootnotes&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YR0uudaWjC2TH3joEresgQAAARg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/bootnotes&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YR0uudaWjC2TH3joEresgQAAARg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/bootnotes&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YR0uudaWjC2TH3joEresgQAAARg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/bootnotes&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YR0uudaWjC2TH3joEresgQAAARg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[7] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_offbeat/bootnotes&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YR0uudaWjC2TH3joEresgQAAARg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[8] https://fullfact.org/online/did-she-die-in-vain/
[9] https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-english-translation
[10] https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/09/mcdonalds_lent_break_fast/
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/04/deep_fried_colin_the_caterpillar/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/20/christianity_brexit/
[13] https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/02/hemp_in_avalon_asa_ruling/
[14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barons%27_War
[15] https://twitter.com/thehistoryguy/status/1427745075929493505
[16] https://twitter.com/NeRegretteRien/status/1427778419660558336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[17] https://twitter.com/AllanSmith80/status/1427871035894992898?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[18] https://twitter.com/anthemsprinter/status/1427759382884978691?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[19] https://twitter.com/MisterRatt/status/1427732082764259338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[20] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Sadly even the 1689 Bill of Rights
gets trumped by Traffic Cameras.
Holy Progress
Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'
They are in desperate need to go from siege to capture. They may have a problem with counting though... needing some kind of smarts to be able to reach three.
Re: Holy Progress
"Fetchez la vache!"
Also: it's a feckin' castle ! The takeover was doomed to fail. All the defenders needed to do was to pull up the drawbridge and lower the portcullis, or whatever, then pour boiling oil on the rabble. Of course, the 20 were, as we say over here, "unencumbered by the thought process"*
* RIP Car Talk
Re: Holy Progress
Look, I understand that the Scots have a reputation regarding their food but "then pour boiling oil on the rabble" is a bit much. Deep fried misguided protestors? I'll pass, thanks.
I did try deep fried pickles once. Was ok, won't buy again.
Re: Holy Progress
Can't raise the drawbridge, health and safety.
Re: Holy Progress
Been a while since I was there, but I do recall several dungeons under Edinburgh Castle. I don't remember them being particularly 'cozy', but I'm sure thirty people could spruce them up if confined there for an extended period.
I mean, if they want the castle then give them the dank dark pits of the 13th century to truly appreciate the freedoms granted by the Magna Carta.
The rest of us will go to the pub and think about what we did.
Live Long and Prosper
I guess it's time to start making/selling "We the 25, or the 4... or the 1" T-Shirts
Sumption is wrong
While the Magna Carta was indeed deeply elitist regarding to whom it provided protections, it was an articulation of the rule of law as priority to the whim of the King.
That concept has been core to British culture and eventual parliamentary democracy for over 800 years now. The Magna Carta should not be dismissed as merely a bunch of nobles expressing self-interest.
If nothing else, check clause 40: https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-english-translation
Re: Sumption is wrong
It's 'Magna Carta', not 'the Magna Carta'.
Re: Sumption is wrong
Cederic,
It's much more complicated than that. Magna Carta was important. After all William Marshal (Earl of Pembroke, mentioned at the top) ended the civil war by re-issuing it on behalf of John's son Henry III (who was 9 at the time). John having conveniently snuffed it before his barons could get hold of him. Although he missed out the vital clause 61 about the 25 barons who could tell the king what to do.
Several subsequent kings then proclaimed it upon taking the throne as a way of saying they weren't going to be too nasty to the barons. On the other hand, Henry III wasn't exactly all that keen on it - and so there was another civil war with Simon de Montfort and co.
But after a while, it all got a bit forgotten. Obviously there was conflict between the king and the barons over power, but that changed in every reign. And so for a while, poor Magna Carta had died in vein - it was just another historical incident in an ongoing conflict over power between elites. Until memory of it was revived much later, as a rallying cry or a historical precendent for people to look to. For a long while it was actually bigger in American poliltics - since it was talked about a lot by the people who wrote the constitution. I believe the monument to it at Runnymede was actually paid for by an American historical society, rather than by us.
So while I think it's a bit glib to say that it was immediately forgotten, it has periodically waxed and waned in importance - sometimes being used as an important example or ideal to emulate, at others pretty much irrelevant. There's probably a professor of the study of mentions of Magna Carta throughout history somewhere, who's got a very long and dull book they could sell you about it.
Re: Sumption is wrong
"it has periodically waxed and waned in importance"
Not least because John immediately tried to get it revoked so his disputes continued.
Re: Sumption is wrong
> And so for a while, poor Magna Carta had died in vein - it was just another historical incident in an ongoing conflict over power between elites.
If it "died in vein" obviously the blood-letting went too far...
I prescribe you all....
... a course of leeches.
Re: Sumption is wrong
Anonymous IV,
Oh bugger!
She died in vein then, while donating a pint of blood. Even though that’s nearly an arm full…
Re: Sumption is wrong
It never applied in Scotland and right up until today Scots law is different from English law, so they might as well be quoting the US constitution for all the good it'll do them.
Re: Sumption is wrong
The only relevant bit is that it does promise Northumberland to Scotland. Maybe they can go reclaim it?
Re: Sumption is wrong
Indeed according to it the border is in the wrong place.
Re: Sumption is wrong
Aye, they should have cited the Declaration of Arbroath.
tl:dr- Scot's are sovereign not subjects, and any ruler who claims otherwise can get tae France.
Re: Sumption is wrong
> they might as well be quoting the US constitution for all the good it'll do them
Well quite. And when they bang on about "we the people" that's exactly what they are doing.
This action was at the milder end of the Clause 61 myths, which also involve sending the Queen an affidavit removing your consent to be governed. Rational Wiki is great fun on this, if you have a few minutes - [1] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Lawful_rebellion_and_the_Magna_Carta
[1] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land#Lawful_rebellion_and_the_Magna_Carta
Re: Sumption is wrong
"we the people" and "sovereign" -- they sound like brexiters to me. That they fail to understand so much British (English and Scottish) history just reinforces that thought.
Re: Sumption is wrong
it was an articulation of the rule of law as priority to the whim of the King.
Correct, and in many ways it was one of the first very important political reforms ever made.
In the USA our Constitution says that we have the right to PEACEABLY assemble and address our greivences etc.. So rioting is COMPLETELY out of the question as far as the law is concerned. I'm sure in the UK it's pretty much the same. Using bad interpretations of the Magna Charta to justify lawlessness is pretty stupid.
But rioting gets attention, especially from the media, making these people "attention whores" and not protesters. [similar criticism applies to riots in MY country as well] When you riot, you draw attention to YOU (like a child having a tantrum). When you protest peacefully, you draw attention to YOUR CAUSE (which becomes part of the solution).
A thousand people marching peacefully with signs and bullhorns makes a very big message for politicians. Or maybe just one guy with a sandwich board marching up and down a street [or wearing a Guy Fawkes mask in protest] is a simple enough message that's also both peaceful and law abiding. And it generally draws attention to the message, not to the messenger.
What these people did (trying to storm the castle) just makes them look like idiots.
Oh I think they went above and beyond just "look like".
Re: Sumption is wrong
The Magna Carta means three things:
Any local government reorganisations that take place from time to time leave out The City of London
The Church of England has a right to exist
When you get arrested, you have the right to a fair trial before being jailed.
The first two are not relevant to Scotland. But there are provisions elsewhere that have a similar effect in Scotland in relation to point 2 (re The Church of Scotland) and point 3. The City of Edinburgh can be, and frequently is reorganised.
Re: Sumption is wrong
>The Church of England has a right to exist
Fscking far sighted for 1215
Re: Sumption is wrong
"When you get arrested, you have the right to a fair trial before being jailed."
:-)
So not quite as effective as a Rag Day occupation of the Tower of London when someone had noticed that the guard hut door opened outwards. Visit the Tower with a long enough rope wound round the waist...
Wow, was that nearly 60 years ago?
Always thought castle doors should open outwards.
Your besieging orc army looks a right bunch of eejits bashing against the door with Gronk and missing the "Pull" sign
Magna Carta there ...
written in French and revoked the year after.
Re: Magna Carta there ...
Written in latin (not french). Revoked the year after by getting the Pope to rule that poor old John was forced into signing it - the precious little darling. But then re-introduced on behalf of Henry III by his regent William the Marshal. The coolest knight with the best back-story ever. Really, look the guy up.
Saved from execution at age 6, for being too cute to kill. He was a hostage for his father's castle. Daddy refused to hand it over to King Stephen and stood on his battlements with his arm round his wife and said, "I have both the hammer and the anvil to make more sons!" Which is a tad harsh. Sent off to Normandy to learn arms. Proved to be bloody amazing at the tournaments. Went on crusade. Kicked arse on behalf of Henry II's son Henry, joined him in rebellion against Daddy. Then fought for Henry II against the rebelling (again) Richard (soon to be the First and the Lionheart) - defeated and unhorsed Richard in single combat. Then served him after Henry II died. Got rid of by John. Then ended the civil war as regent to John's son Henry III while in his 70s.
Known, at the time, as the greatest knight in Christendom
Re: Magna Carta there ...
Also regularly top of the tournaments when there wasn't any real fighting until his 60s - and there was no Seniors' circuit then (actually, with warfare being what it was there probably weren't many Seniors anyway).
It was a lovely day for a coup
I can't believe the world's media was focused on Afghanistan when this was going on in Edinburgh.
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
Yep. No cause, lousy timing, bad case of "no, you didn't do your research" ...
Is it the case that my sensivity for shamelessly (often proudly) displayed stupidity and inorance in public has risen in the last, say, 10-15 years or is the average western IQ - not only of young people - really in a free-fall?
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
The average IQ of a population is always 100, that's how it works.
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-average-iq-2795284
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
Yeah, which does not mean that the average IQ can not fall in absolute terms while still being called "100" :)
Re: The average IQ of a population is always 100
Just like money, it needs to be adjusted for inflation current stupidity.
Re: The average IQ of a population is always 100
You mean my IQ has gone up steadily for the last 20 years? That's great!
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
10-15 years corresponds to the rise of social media (Farcebook 2004, Twitter 2006, etc). Once this sort of idiocy would have only been covered by local news, except maybe during the silly season (and we've got a llama death watch for that this year, plus serious stuff in Afghanistan). Now social media lets anybody post "look at me making a twat of myself" items and they go viral as everybody goes "look at this twat being a twat".
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
Coup d'twat.
Re: It was a lovely day for a coup
Nah,
A good day to bury bad news.
memories of 11th Sept 2001 and someone in the gubbermint deciding that it was the best time to reveal something bad.
Just tell 'em to
Buggereth offeth
Re: Just tell 'em to
There are a range of more local expressions which could also be used, though I think the guard started in the right place with "Aye right".
Re: Just tell 'em to
Bugger ye off*
as said by Rowan Atkinson in Bernard and the Genie - seriously go watch it, brilliant stuff especially Rowan's acting
Re: Just tell 'em to
Surely only the good folks of Morningside would say that?
The Chanty-mouthed Big Yin might suggest "Getifubasas!"
(I know he's from Glasgow. I don't know Edinburgh slang)
Is it possible to
arrest the lot of them for being too fucking stupid for a Darwin award?
Re: Is it possible to
Tell em to paint themselves blue and come back when they've learned an Oz accent
What a bunch of muppets...
One can only imagine how earnestly hilarious their "pre-assault" planning meetings must have been. I assume something akin to that in the film Four Lions.
Re: What a bunch of muppets...
The four baw heids?
Re: What a bunch of muppets...
What we need is, suicide crows...
Re: What a bunch of muppets...
Nah, breaking into the sewers to kidnap pilate's wife...
They will I'm sure be pleased to learn that the modern[1] equivalent of Article 61 is The House of Lords. That applies to Scotland as well as England.
If they were in England, then the good news is that Article 24 of the Magna Carta is still in force. That's the one that gives them the right to a fair trial in the event that they are arrested for whatever nonsense they get up to.
[1] relatively speaking