Universal Windows Platform no more? Microsoft says 'no plans to release WinUI 3 for UWP in a stable way'
- Reference: 1625204230
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/07/02/uwp_legacy_microsoft/
- Source link:
The [1]WinUI Community Call yesterday was conducted on Google's YouTube platform "because Teams wasn't always accessible/allowed in some work environments," said WinUI Program Manager Ryan Demopoulos in the chat. The session began with a quick definition of terms – sorely needed in the confusing world of Microsoft's user interface frameworks for Windows.
"WinUI is the native UI platform for Windows 10 and Windows 11," said Microsoft program manager Ana Wishnoff. She explained that "WinUI 2 is the 2nd generation of the native UX stack in Windows. It's built for UWP apps. WinUI 3 is a new 3rd generation of the native UX stack in Windows. It consolidates the UX technologies previously built into Windows into a single decoupled framework that ships as part of the Windows App SDK, previously known as Project Reunion."
[2]
As the [3]docs explain, WinUI 2 has some limitations versus WinUI 3. WinUI 2 does not support .NET 5.0, only an older variety of .NET called .NET Native. It does not support the Chromium-based WebView2 control, but only the old Edge-based WebView 1.x control.
[4]
[5]
Developers invested in UWP and therefore WinUI 2.x, cannot port easily to WinUI 3 in desktop applications, since the variety of XAML (the XML language used to define the layout) is different, and the UWP application model is different from the desktop application model.
At one time, the story was that UWP developers would not miss out, since WinUI 3 would be available both for desktop and UWP. This was part of the "reunion." That plan has now changed, even though the docs referenced above still say "WinUI 3 support for production-ready UWP apps is currently in preview."
[6]Developing for Windows 11: Like developing for Windows 10, but with rounded corners?
[7]Microsoft to unveil 'what's next for Windows' ... Rounded corners and what else?
[8]Microsoft has gone to great lengths to push its tech, but survey suggests many devs slipped through the .NET
[9]Microsoft's 0.5 release of Project Reunion dev kit has production support – just don't be touching UWP
In the community call, Demopoulos said in the chat that "we have no plans right now to release WinUI 3 for UWP in a stable way. We do have experimental builds of this, and plan to maintain that in case we ever decide to target UWP."
"When we started WinUI 3 the plan was basically to make a hard successor to WinUI 2. Our plans hanged, and we're parallel developing now," he added. "We'll be parallel developing for a long time, and intend on having a good story for UWP developers near and long term."
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This kind of language will not be reassuring to UWP developers, since it likely indicates that the company's main energy will be going into WinUI 3 while keeping WinUI 2.x somewhat up to date until there are few enough users that it can be frozen. Microsoft has just released WinUI 2.6 and now promises a WinUI 2.7 either at the end of this year or in the first quarter of 2022, presumably to enable UWP applications to have reasonable support for Windows 11, but the long-term future of UWP now looks bleak.
[11]
The latest 2021 WinUI roadmap: UWP gets WinUI 2.x, not WinUI 3
While many developers prefer the desktop model, UWP does have some advantages. "UWP has two benefits, sandbox and the ability to run on other Windows devices, Xbox, Hololens" said one, while another said that ".NET Native is really nice against reverse engineering, that's why we still use UWP."
During the call, Demopoulos was asked about why WinUI 3 support was no longer planned for UWP. "Our focus is on trying to reach out to the existing very large community of Win32 desktop developers," he said, "who haven't had any good way to access … fluent design and a lot of the controls that WinUI provided. We are still investing in WinUI 2 and will be for quite a while."
Another way of looking at this is that Microsoft tried to get Windows developers to adopt its UWP model but too many of them refused – for all sorts of reasons. The result is that Redmond has had to backtrack, unfortunately at the expense of the keen minority who did adopt it. ®
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[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EOKxjFyY68
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YN7jvoXPXKeJnA-WQ2yGpgAAABg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/winui/winui3-winui2-comparison
[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YN7jvoXPXKeJnA-WQ2yGpgAAABg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YN7jvoXPXKeJnA-WQ2yGpgAAABg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/developing_for_windows_11/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/03/microsoft_windows_next_generation/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/06/the_state_of_net_survey/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/30/microsoft_05_project_reunion/
[10] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/applications&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YN7jvoXPXKeJnA-WQ2yGpgAAABg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[11] https://regmedia.co.uk/2021/07/01/roadmap.jpg
[12] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: And that's the reason we cannot have nice things!
I miss windows tablet actually.
And this is why I don't program Windows desktop apps any more:
"WinUI is the native UI platform for Windows 10 and Windows 11," said Microsoft program manager Ana Wishnoff. She explained that "WinUI 2 is the 2nd generation of the native UX stack in Windows. It's built for UWP apps. WinUI 3 is a new 3rd generation of the native UX stack in Windows. It consolidates the UX technologies previously built into Windows into a single decoupled framework that ships as part of the Windows App SDK, previously known as Project Reunion."
What a mess, not to mention the junk that is .NET Framework.
This shite is all going to be carried forward for 20-25 years in the name of compatibility.
Just like I did for all previous platforms, I'm not even looking at it until it has so much inertia that Microsoft is forced to support it forever or nearly so. I've used MFC until .NET was on version three, and I'm only now considering Core.
Another day another UI framework.
I honestly hate developing on Windows these days. There are so many frameworks and they are all dog slow.
What worked was MFC and C++ or WinForms. But then came along presentation foundation and so on with ever slower and more inefficient UI's that make modern hardware hurt. It's utterly painful.
I just use QT these days. It's not perfect, but I can just develop on a Mac and do some checks on Windows as an afterthought.
If I do want something pretty on windows MFC + BCG ControlBar.
I recently dug up my old UI engine that was originally written for games. It's almost at the point now where I can use it for games, mobile applications, or desktop applications on any platform that supports GPU rendering. (It actually is there - I'm basically just adding support for more exotic control types on an on-going basis as and when I need them.)
Fuck Microsoft's constant API changes and redirections. Fuck being restrained to different APIs and paradigms on different form factors. All software I write going forward will use a single, consistent API that is flexible enough to work anywhere.
Ding, dong, the witch is dead
"Focus is on persuading desktop developers to refresh applications for Windows 11"
You mean, keep with Win32 API and never bother with their newer / suggested APIs ever?
Sure. Did anyone ever do otherwise? ;)
As above, so below...
So the TL:DR of it all is they're as clueless and lost on the under-the-hood API and framework side of things as they are at the surface with all the GUI and user interface "polishing" and corner-rounding.
A pinball path to progress...
And that's the reason we cannot have nice things!
At least one of the reasons why developers jumped ship from Windows Phone was (allegedly, I'm no app developer) the constant platform changes, with the needs to rewrite your apps for the new platform, that was supposed to be universal, and life was going to be so much simpler, and for the long term, and univeral and all fluffy bunnies and unicorns - until two years or so later the next platform change all of a sudden happened with similar promises attached. I can totally understand people not wanting to commit to that any more. So: fewer apps, nobody wants a phone that does not have you baking / public transport / whatever app, fewer people buy it, fewer devs bother because it's a small market segment, even fewer apps...
I miss my windows phone (and that's coming from a long time linux user).