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"It is expected that, if the app-based concept goes ahead, it will have no place in steps two and three of the UK's reopening "roadmap", which includes schools, non-essential retail, gyms, and nail salons"

Whose expectation is that?

My expectation is that if the app goes ahead, it will be used in as many locations as the authorities think they can get away with using it, for as long as they think they can get away with it.

Of course all of this assumes any apps will actually work!

The 'World Class' T & T app won't work on my fruit based device due to the authentication app I have on it to allow me access to work emails etc so I am not holding my breath

Actually, it assumes the app will work most of the time for most people. If it happens to fail for you, tough. Go use the non-app option, if there is one and if it's accepted. It won't be accepted everywhere, no matter what the government says. Most likely, you need to go buy a new phone so you can use the app.

I can see how an app may be necessary in Scotland and Wales

But surely an Englishman's word is sacred and so all they have to do is announce that they are free from any viral impurities and that should be sufficient

Next the bureaucrats will be demanding I carry some proof that I can drive or fly a plane

So add a flag to the passport database or driving license database. We don't need an entirely new database containing 99% of the same data for the Tories to whisk away £2bn creating only for it to turn out to be a spreadsheet.

Have you not heard of normalisation?

Come on any and all of us here could add a simple flag to some database somewhere.

Passports already have a chip in them and you require them to fly. So a flag on your passport makes sense.

Not everybody has a passport or a driving licence. So at least your solution would limit the scope of things that could be authorised.

Awww, it's so cute when the Low IQ Mouthbreathers come out to comment as though their opinion wasn't spoonfed to them by CNN.

"Next the bureaucrats will be demanding I carry some proof that I can drive or fly a plane"

There is a MASSIVE difference between proving you have the skills necessary to drive a car or fly a plane and proving you got a vaccine shot to enter a business, it's COMPLETELY unnecessary and a large overreach of government power, but you'd let the government do anything to do if CNN told you the science supported it.

That's not even addressing the inability of these agencies to secure all of this data they're collecting.

TL;DR, STFU, the adults are talking now sweetie.

So we're not allowed to travel unless we subscribe to an Apple or Google phone and all the pitfalls that brings?

You honestly could not make it up, or come across such a bunch of ignoramuses as MP's and their policy makers.

What the problem with having a simple paper certificate issued by the local doctors surgery with some form of security hash/key that could be checked by border agents, etc?

Like the flight that just landed here from India where 35 people tested positive on landing, despite all having a paper certificate that showed they were tested before being allowed to board ?

An app will do nothing about the quality or effectiveness of pre-flight testing.

No but will avoid going round to the local Staples and making a photocopy of someone's certificate

A properly designed certificate would include features to make a photocopy obvious. Like the paper driving licences if you're old enough to have had one.

They join other campaign groups, including Liberty, in backing the statement: "We oppose the divisive and discriminatory use of COVID status certification to deny individuals access to general services, businesses or jobs."

And I oppose the lack of COVID status certification, which will enable individuals to endanger my health and that of the general public.

Notes:

1) On the assumption that people who can't have the vaccine are relatively small in number and would pose no great risk to the general population, I would treat them the same as those who had been vaccinated.

2) Those who won't have the vaccine are on their own. To those who say it's their right to choose not to have it, I say it's also my right to be protected from such idiots.

3) To the young who protest about age discrimination, I point out the Government's appalling record in getting effective IT systems up and running, and reassure them that everyone will have been vaccinated before any working system is in place.

But... You've been vaccinated so you've nothing to worry about right? Or don't you have faith in medical science?

I genuinely do not understand the opposition to being able to prove that you've had the vaccination. If people can't due to a genuine medical condition (fear of needles and believing what Eamonn Holmes says do not count), then issue them the certificate (or flag on the database or whatever) to say they've been vaccinated.

Time for people to take their place in society and do their bit to protect other people, by having their jabs. If you want to go to a concert, or the big sports event, you'll need to prove you're safe to be among thousands of other people.

Personally, I can't wait to get mine so that I can get on public transport, and go to shops, restaurants, shows, films, concerts and pubs again, and if someone sticking a needle in my arm is the price I pay for that, then so be it.

The problem is they do not prove you are safe.

They prove you have been vaccinated.

That makes you a lower risk than someone unvaccinated, but not 100% safe.

But your comment proves one of the pitfalls - people will think that if you have the 'passport' you are safe, and likely will act with less caution.

Of course they're discriminatory, that's the whole idea. They discriminate against people who won't take steps to protect the people they come in contact with.

I can certainly see logistical difficulties in using them for access to bars & restaurants, I'm not sure that would ever fly, but for things like air or sea travel the process is not much different to that for electronic visa-type things like ESTAs, ETIAS, etc. Tie them to the travel document (passport, ID card). Same for jobs where people come in contact with the general public. We wouldn't let someone drive a bus unless they could prove they have a license to do so safely, proving that they don't present a health risk to their passengers is no different.

I oppose any requirement to identify yourself, much less provide official documentation, for any day-to-day activities.

When I was a young child in the 1960's I was very afraid of a Russian nuclear attack (we lived in East Anglia, near many USAF bases, and would be expected to be a very early target).

My parents, who had lived through WWII, did not attempt to comfort me with "don't worry - it will never happen". Instead, they explained why we had to stand firm against the communist threats, at the cost of our lives if necessary. A major part of that was to preserve the British way of life and freedoms, in particular to avoid the "papers please" approach that robbed the citizens of those regimes their freedoms.

This made a strong impression on me, under the age of 10.

I was very afraid of a Russian nuclear attack (we lived in East Anglia, near many USAF bases, and would be expected to be a very early target).

Didn't really matter where you were. After the first H-bomb had burst over London, Suffolk would have had no-one left anyway.

Ironically if they lived in that area in the 80s somebody would have checked that they didn't belong to CND or vote for the wrong party

Unfortunately many other countries have already implemented a COVID passport of some description, and if British people want to start travelling abroad again then it looks like they might have to get some sort of official certification that shows they have had the vaccination. Or face a limits number of places they will be able to visit.

What have other countries specifically visiting got to do with this debate ?

Getting the jab is one thing, being required to prove that I've had the jab to continue my daily life is something quite different.

While I might be quite happy to prove I've had a yellow fever vaccine to go to parts of Africa this debate is "Do you need to carry an ID card with medical data to go to the gym, supermarket or pub?". Once such an ID card is implemented it's use WILL be expanded on history has taught us that much.

At what point will additional vaccinations be tacked onto this? At what point will it be changed from listing "individual vaccinations" to "all required vaccinations" and then at what point will other elements be added so it's a generic "Can interact with society or not" status?

That's my take on it too. Other countries will want to be sure that we (as individuals) won't be causing them any more grief than we have to. So if I want to go away, then that's something I'd have to accept. After all I have the choice not to go away.

However no-one should be stopped from visiting a pub/restaurant/shop/etc of their choice just because they don't have the app du jour or even a piece of paper.

We will need two different systems, just like we have for identity today. It is reasonable to carry a proof of identity (a passport) to be allowed entry to another country, even though it is not reasonable to carry a proof of identity (ID card) in the UK.

Similarly, I expect to carry some sort of COVID status for entry to other countries. But I will not provide any such proof for activity in the UK.

Vaccine passports are standard in Germany and there is a certain logic to them, especially in a country where most people don't have GPs with a list of their vaccinations. Pet owners are used to them for when they cross borders with their pets so I can't really see why it should be that different for people.

That said, as soon as the documents can be used to gain an edge you should expect fakes and sure enough the going rate in Germany for a fake passport with the relevant vaccination stickers is around € 150. These documents were never designed with anti-fraud measures… but give me them any time over fucking solutionist app nirvana!

require another 30Bn to develop, fail and be quietly 'retired'?

Hey, gravy trains don't run themselves you know!

So they get their ID card after all.

And just how long will I be refused entry to locations because I don't want to get vaccinated?

For as long as it takes until all the selfish people who don't want to be vaccinated realise that herd immunity only works if everyone who CAN be is vaccinated, and not just those who WANT to.

Perhaps the app could also inform on whether you swear at people when you don't get your own way.

If I recall correctly, a bit before Easter, when vaccination rates were rising and we started getting some good (well, not-so-bad) weather, the authorities took to reminding us all that we still had to obey all the lock-down restrictions because vaccination does not provide 100% immunity.

That vaccinations are not 100% immunity is of course, 'the science', not just for COVID, but any vaccination.

So proof of vaccination is not proof that you do not have/cannot catch/cannot transmit COVID.

It might reasonably be argued that it's proof that you are less likely to have/catch/transmit COVID than someone that has not been vaccinated.

At which point, we have moved into statistics and percentages of population that are immune / herd immunity.

The authorities know how many people have been vaccinated. They know what percentage of vaccinated people are therefore immune to COVID (though of course, cannot readily distinguish the majority vaccinated and immune from the minority vaccinated but not immune). They can make whatever allowance the science says they should make for those people that are immune through having had COVID, or any other factor. They should therefore be able to establish what percentage of the population is immune, and therefore whether we have reached herd immunity levels.

If we have reached herd immunity, vaccine passports (which, remember, prove vaccine status not immunity status) are not needed for activities within the UK: we should be back to pre-COVID normality.

If we have not reached herd immunity, maybe we should just hang on in for a few more weeks until we have.

Vaccination passports for international travel are clearly a separate consideration.

Multiple studies now show that people who have been fully vaccinated do not pose a significant risk of infection for others. This was expected but needed sufficient data in order to be considered validated.

Anonymous Coward>And just how long will I be refused entry to locations because I don't want to get vaccinated?

As long as the pandemic is in play. Another 18 months to 2 years I'd guess. Don't worry, we who are able/willing to get vaccinated have you covered. You're welcome.

And just how long will I be refused entry to locations because I don't want to get vaccinated

As long as required to prove that you aren't a risk to the other people there. If you won't take precautions to be sure you're not a risk to us, why should we be forced to run the gauntlet of your cavalier attitude? It's fundamentally the same principle as the smoking ban, if you want to smoke you can do it at home, but not in public places where you put other people at risk.

I went for my second jab today, at the appointed hour that was set when I had my first jab. They couldn't find me or my reference code on the system! Luckily they agreed to vaccinate me anyway (I guess there's not a lot of motivation for old codgers to try to game the system somehow) so now I've got a paper card that says I've been vaccinated twice and that records my vaccine batch numbers. And I'm confident there's no computer-based record of it all. So how is any computer-based system going to validate that I'm vaccinated?

I have an Android phone. I haven't downloaded any apps onto it, because that would require me to have a google account, which I don't want (and can't figure out how to create anyway). So no app-based solution is going to work for me.

So it sounds like they will want to see my little piece of cardboard, if I haven't lost or burned it by then and haven't forged another, and make a QR code out of it somehow in order for me to be allowed to do whatever it is they say I have to be authorised to do in the brave new future.