News: 1619531106

> The UK has 25,000, and France has over 300,000 (though expressed as a proportion of roundabouts per intersection, they are not that far apart).

How can that be true? France surely doesn't have over ten times the number of intersections as the UK?

“ Space France is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space France”

With apologies to Douglas Adams

Really big?

It's not even as big as Texas. And it's a whole country.

Kinda tiny, really.

It’s not much smaller than Texas - at 643,801 km² (France) vs 695,662 km² (Texas) and both are massive compared with little old England (130,279 km²).

And both have something that England doesn’t. Friends. Texas has the rest of the United States. France has the rest of the European Union. England isn’t even liked by the rest of the ‘United' Kingdom.

France isn't much liked by the rest of the EU...

France isn’t much liked.

Yes that's right (not):

[1]https://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/opinion/unexpected-alliances-forged-in-europe-france-and-the-baltics/

Now if you'd said Poland or Hungary, you may have had a point.

[1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/opinion/unexpected-alliances-forged-in-europe-france-and-the-baltics/

Keep your friends close, and...

And after the disaster of the power cuts many texans do not like the texas power companies.

What a dumb comment. Some of the close friends of the UK, economically, politically and militarily include (wait for it):

France and Germany.

If you don't know how close the UK and France are as European neighbours and powers (which has nothing to do with the EU), then you really don't have a clue what you are talking about.

"Friends. Texas has the rest of the United States."

LOL

Texas might be big but there are bits of France that are 12+ hour flights away from Paris (not Paris Texas...)

Reunion is a lovely place to go. I'd expect that 99.99% of Texans would not have a clue where Reunion is on a map of the world.

As for being liked... Texans aren't liked by many other US citizens. If you want a corrupt state (and there are many if not most states) then Texas is at the top with Florida close behind but catching up rapidly especially after they've passed laws basically allowing car driver to run down protesters and not be prosecuted. Governor De Santis would probably give you a medal if you did just that.

Of course Texans know where Reunion is. [1]Dallas.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reunion_District,_Dallas

But given the populations are about the same that's loads more per person - one more demonstration of how intrinsically unfair the EU was to Britain ... "At the roundabout take the third Brexit" ... :-)

Roundabouts only work well if people use the correct lane and signal correctly coming onto and exiting the roundabout.

In France you are allowed to stay in the outside lane for any exit. And you then have priority over the inside lane at all times. This coupled with no signalling makes roundabouts in France worthless.

Not to mention that you may or may not have priority when on them, depending on the signs at the entry.

I once drove for a few hundred Km in France (Paris to Bayeux, using secondary roads)

Based on my limited experience, I'd say the estimate of 300.000 roundabouts is a few zeros short!

They need good British roundabouts - two lanes marked on the road sign, three lanes on the road, four on the round-and-roundabout itself with lanes clearly marked to tell you where you should have been and traffic lights thrown in to prevent you getting to that lane! An annoying one in King's Lynn was easily negotiable once you learned to ignore the *all* the signs apart from trying to read those one set of lights ahead so you had time to get where you needed to be immeditately after that set of lights ... all before the inevitable red light stopped you moving anywhere and a juggerynut pea harvester blocked your view of anything...

That's easy.

Expert level is approaching a contra-rotating roundabout (in my case Hemel Hempstead when I used to live ther) and choosing which way to go around based on current traffic levels (generally anti-clockwise was a bit quicker as anyone unfamiliar with the junction would tend to default to clockwise).

First time I found the Swindon one, I was through it before I realised what it was. Clearly my brain is equally convoluted. I did the Hemel Hempstead one a few times, used to visit BSI Labs there, and never had a problem with that either.

In the US they spoil some roundabouts by putting STOP signs on the entrances, so you can't time your approach for the gap you can see coming.

I have seen a few tourists trying to negotiate the Hemel Hempstead Magic roundabout at various times, after twenty odd years living in foreign places, I would need to think a little before entering it.

I have never had a problem going from UK to Continental but have had to pause a couple of times on returning.

I like the old steam wagons and tractors that decorate a lot of Spanish roundabouts.

i don't mind roundabouts at least they can keep the traffic flowing. Nothing worse than sitting at a set of lights on red with no other cars in sight as is often the case at many sets of lights down here in sunny Plymouth. On my commute route there was a junction with a couple of mini roundabouts that you could quite quickly go through, then a few years ago they were replaced by a couple of sets of lights, now you sit there on a red light with bugger all cars or pedestrians in sight. And now of course there are traffic light controlled roundabouts, which sometimes work but other times you land up going around the roundabout only to meet a queue on the roundabout that are stopped on a red light half way around.

"now you sit there on a red light with bugger all cars or pedestrians in sight"

Our traffic signals are equipped with in-pavement vehicle detector inductive loops. They work well during low traffic times to switch the lights. Unless you get stuck behind a Honda. Which evidently don't have enough metal in them to trigger the sensor. Then you could wait all night.

some lights are like that here but not all I expect down to the extra cost. I used to work for a shared service centre who looks after Plymouth city councils infrastructure. The server running ALL the traffic lights in the city was a single w2k8r2 box VM (upgraded now I think to at least w2k12r2!). It was one of those boxes that you really avoided having to touch, and if it shit itself it was a P1 with knobs on!!!!

There's one town in the US doing really well with roundabouts, and there's a fair bit of science supporting them as a good traffic management measure.

> there's a fair bit of science supporting them as a good traffic management measure.

That's the problem. We don't your science - 4 way stops are in the Bible and the Constitution so that's all that matters

In my opinion, roundabouts are helping here in Macomb County, Michigan (north of Detroit, of all places).

The first major one (2-3 lanes, no lights) can be a bit of a mess when certain directions back up, but a particular couple (only yards apart, both 2 lanes) have been a HUGE improvement over the former light-induced gridlock. Most others are small single-lane affairs replacing stop signs that work but they don't experience as much traffic.

The County is planning more and I'm glad for it.

I've commuted, I've driven the family around (school, church, errands), and I've even done gig driving (GrubHub). Anything that reduces crashes and delays while increasing general throughput is fine with me.

Now, if you want to talk about the effectiveness of the "Michigan Left", be ready for a flame war -- many on both sides feel strongly. I've been here 16 of my 41 years and am mixed about it, especially since the devil is in the details about the turnaround distance from main intersection, turnaround width (some are way too narrow), light timings, etc.

As I grew up (a bit) in Hemel Hempstead, I clearly remember that WE, along with Swindon, had the first 'magic' roundabouts, where there were mini roundabouts around a central larger one. It caused no end of confusion the first Monday it was open, but eventually worked quite well. I don't know why Swindon gets all the credit / enmity for it. (Hemel Hempstead was also the birthplace of Anne Boleyn and was granted a licence to hold markets in honour of her when she married Henry.)

As for the video, it clearly shows people driving on both the left and the right sides of the road, presumably in contravention of USA road regulations, so the Americans will need all the help they can get. I understand that Japan does not go in much for roundabouts either. They only have about 80 (https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200106/p2a/00m/0na/009000c ), so when Japanese drivers encounter one in the UK or Europe it can be quite a shock for them.

I always get the impression the the American version of a driving test is "can you trurn the radio on?"

LOL - KY is just now getting their first?

The NYT article about the first one there shows one in my town. I have personally honked at idiots who stopped in the middle of it to let incoming traffic merge.

It's a huge improvement anyway. That intersection used to be an all way stop, and traffic would sometimes back up for almost a mile during rush hour.

That vid will become a classic, its terrifying.

Maybe a couple or a lot of keep right signs are required.

That video is a visualisation of my brain the first time I came across a roundabout in Spain in rented car with my girlfriend helpfully shouting "remember to go the other way around".

Watch the animated film 'Inside Out' for an amusingly accurate depiction (very near the end) of a boy's mental state when confronted by a 'girl'*.

*For those el Reg readers of a nervous disposition, and perhaps sheltered** upbringing, a 'girl' is the female of the Homo sapiens species. They prefer boys who wash all over EVERY DAY and clean their teeth properly (e.g. see the Dr Who episode:

The Doctor: "You like him, don't you?"

Rose: "He saved my life. For a man that's right up there with flossing***.")

**There is a world outside your bedroom where you keep all the electronics stuff, you might like to try it some time, it can be quite nice.

***Flossing is the act of using interdental tape to clean between the teeth. It is NOT a dance on TikTok****.

****TikTok is a popular application ... Warning - FOOTNOTE OVERFLOW -

It beats a Detroit U-ey (or Michigan Left as they seem to prefer).

No turning left at a cross roads, just turn right (on Red is OK if there's nothing coming), get into the fast lane, do a U-Turn into the opposing fast lane and then go straight on at the junction (or straight on, U-Turn, turn right depending on the layout).

It took us Brits a while to get used to that one when I lived over there!

Doing it on a highway sounds very American. There are some junctions in London where it's quicker to go straight across, turn around, and turn left, than to wait in the queue to turn right. But that's with urban traffic speeds.

Having lived in the UK and Ireland for several years, the absence of roundabouts on this side of the moat bothered me. Our stalwart, the four-way STOP, is cheap and cheerful, to be sure, but doesn't cope well in areas with growing traffic due to development. Fortunately for me, we're catching up, at least in my immediate area. Take a look at this one, under construction — a roundabout for Round Rock with a flyover and rail tracks.

https://communityimpact.com/city-county/2018/12/20/ci-exclusive-check-out-video-of-this-innovative-rm-620-roundabout-project-near-i-35-in-round-rock/

The problem isn't the 4way stop - it's the alternate 2way stops.

So at every junction one set of roads is a stop but the other might be (4way) or not (2way) so you are never entirely sure if the other car is going to stop - unless you can see the back of an octagonal sign on their lane.

That's multiplied by the probability that the other car will stop even if they have a stop sign of course.

Do not mix well. Especially Johnny Reb Yankees, as found in Kentucky and, yes, here in Deepest South Florida. There are several roundabouts near me; each of them has skid marks and usually small amounts of broken glass and/or assorted car bits (side mirrors, whole or parts, random metal pieces, other stuff) because the locals simply have no idea of how to use them. The population of Cuban Cowboys and their sisters, Las Latinas Brava, here in Deepest South Florida who also don’t know how to deal with roundabouts but don’t care tends to make things even more interesting. They tend to care only about speed. One of Las Latinas Brava just managed to be clocked at 111 mph (not kph…) just before crashing into a pickup, totaling it, rolling her car, and killing one and injuring three… while being on probation after serving four of five years for vehicular homicide caused by speeding. Speed and roundabouts are an interesting combination. One of my nieces says that the Cuban Cowboys can drive sideways… just not at roundabouts.

Certain Caribbean ‘tourist’ destinations (Barbados and Jamaica, I’m looking at _you_) have roundabouts at the main entrance/exit to the big tourist airport (Grantly Adams in Barbados, Sangster in Jamaica; Norman Manley in Jamaica put the roundabouts at an extended distance. Grantly Adams has extra value thanks to all the roundabouts on the ABC Highway going into Bridgetown.) I call them tourist killers. It’s not helped by the fact that you’re supposed to drive on the correct side of the road in Barbados and Jamaica. Rent a car companies tend to have to repair a lot of vehicles.

Cuban Cowboys can drive sideways… just not at roundabouts.

but thats the best place to drive sideways!

The thing you have to remember is that each type of junction has it's uses. Traffic lights work well in some places, roundabouts in others. Horses for courses. Ther advantage of rounderbouts is that no electricity or computers required. unlike traffic lights which 1) sometimes do not work, and 2) can be red for you when there is no other traffic. (when will i ever see inteligent traffic lights that can read the cars on the road?)

There was a burst of minor accidents when Cheyenne Wyoming changed a major (for a town of 70k) 5-way intersection to a roundabout.

Because these were minor accidents it didn't matter that there was a nearby hospital -- it had been important before before the change.

Enhanced business opportunity.

Wonder what happens to accident rate when the ambulance company wins the contract for road signage?

> Especially Johnny Reb Yankees, as found in Kentucky [ ... ]

KY is not, and has never been, a Yankee state.

Originally, Yankee referred to people from New England - ME, NH, MA, VT, CT, RI.

During the Western Expansion the word evolved to describe any settlement by people of English Protestant origin - a Yankee settlement - as opposed to people of German Protestant origin - a German settlement. This meaning is prevalent in the Midwest.

During the Civil War the term evolved again to loosely define anyone from the Northern US fighting for the Union side of the conflict. Today, Southerners still refer to Americans from the Northern States as Yankees.[*]

At the start of the Civil War, KY declared itself neutral, but ended up under Union control after some confederate general tried to engineer a coup to bring KY to the CSA. KY then asked the Union for help, and stayed under Union control for the duration of the Civil War.

Today, Yankee loosely refers to anyone from the Northeast Coast of the US. The precise meaning of the word varies by region.

-----

[*] They also refer to the Civil War as The War Of Northern Aggression . Go figure. If you visit a Southern State, it's best to stay clear of the Civil War topic altogether.

There is a roundabout here that keeps getting repeatedly destroyed by people not paying attention; Unlike the Kentucky one, it has a raised brick center that people keep driving into. They have added some extra (rope?) lights to it, but not sure even that will help.

https://www.khq.com/news/police-alcohol-speed-believed-to-be-factor-in-mans-fatal-crash-into-liberty-lake-roundabout/article_a40e0da6-e9c4-11e9-af1e-d7c910840c47.html

I was absolutely shocked to see the locals driving on the left, the right, and wherever. This is a place that needs a sign, "STAY THE F*** RIGHT". There are roundabouts in the greater Seattle area, and I have never seen driving like that in the video. Sure, I have seen people driving over the circle, but never hanging a left like that.

Really, the cops should get out there and hand out tickets for idiots driving on the wrong side of the road. Or just use it as a driving test: if you can't figure out a roundabout, you lose your license for life. Move to another state and try again.

In the greater Seattle area you can go around clockwise if you're driving something too large to go around anti-clockwise.

> pointless roundabouts that only serve to underline how much you hate the talk navigator chiming in...

Can't say I've ever experienced that. Oh but I've never used sat nav, having learned to read at an early age - did you know they put signs on roads that tell you where they go? Amazing, what will they think of next?

Ah thats great, I have been specifically asking them to put up road signs showing the way to my auntie Helga's house for years. Glad to hear this level of navigation detail is now available on signs.

" ... they put signs on roads that tell you where they go ... "

Signs around here have evolved differently:

Assuming you have managed to spot a sign inside the roadside foliage, and that nobody has used it as a canvas for their "artwork", you will now find you are heading to somewhere you have never heard of (e.g. Little Hissingdown), rather than the major metropolis you desired.

Other signs are placed on approaches to junctions to tell you that you should have changed lanes some time ago, and it's now far too late to do anything about it.

Painted signs on the roadway exist only to confirm you are in the wrong lane - as soon as the traffic starts moving and reveals them.

At least the UK has one agency planning the stuff.

Here the motorways are federal, so there are no signs to the motorway on the surface streets because that's not their jurisdiction. The motorway numbers 'junctions' but in the city a junction can be every block, junction numbers get skipped so J32 can be immediately after J20 or you can have J20a,b,c,d,e because some suburb was built.

The local signs are the city responsibility, but the city can change every few miles, the same road can change name. There is no standard road numbering outside motorways.

Then in the city there is the same road east/west or north/south with the same building numbers.